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Discussion Starter #1
After the bashing of the referee, i want to talk about the way Italy played at the tournament, because it was really a poor play

I think a team with this great tradition and potential in world football schouldn´t blame the refs when they play poorly against Mexico and get a draw, although Mexico deserved the win.

And also the loss against Korea is not the referees fault, but the poor tactics of Trapattoni, Italy was clearly outplayed by a team with nonames, ok they are running a lot but Italy shouldn´t lose to such a team.

You are leading 1-0 and after that Trappatoni wants the team to get back and defend and rely on counterattacks instead of giving the Koreans the finishing blow with a second goal.

After the 1-0 they were shocked and the best thing Italy should have done, was to go for the second.


I think the main problem in Italy is the old way of thinking of defensive football.
Without disrespecting you, i think you, too often think of Italy as teh best team and the Seria A as the best league in the world, but this times are over, because i often read this in this forums

You didn´t realize that football is developing in other countries and your old rusty tactics with defense isn´t working anymore.

I also think, that some players are really overrated like Totti, who makes some great passes, but who also dives alot and behaves on the field like a woman.

Also the midfield is not so great anymore, i couldn´t believe it when i heard names like Zambrotta, Zanetti, or Thommasi who were in the starting eleven against Mexico.

Italian midfield should have more real stars, and not those average players.

The defense without Cannavaro and Nesta was also not that good, because Maldini gets older and was overjumped by Ahn at the second goal and i don´t want to speak about panucci.

So i think Italy needs a change in mind with a new team manager who is brave enough to make offensive tactics, what do you think about Italy´s real problems??

Are you happy with the way Italy played in this tournament, without talking about about the refs mistakes??
 

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You know what, its easy to throw the blame at the refs. Yes we did get screwed by the refs and I agree but on the other hand the tactical mentality of Italy is awful and I agree with you about that 100000000000%. You don't know how it drives me crazy everytime we score to see everyone retreat into their defesive end and just absorbe pressure all game long. Eventually the other team will find a way to score to even the game up and by that time the Italy players are so tired from absorbing pressure and the opponents are so pumped up with their tie that it makes it hard to get back into attacking formation. This has to change and as long as it doesn't than Italian teams in the Champions league and Uefa along with the National team will continue to struggle.
 

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What I feel ashamed about is of course the 1-0 situation. Note to Trap or whomever will coach Italy, YOU HAVE TO EXPECT TO GIVE UP ONE GOAL AND STILL WIN, that is a known fact, because that one goal could be luck, a PK, a bad call, or just a regular goal. Their only problem is sitting on the one goal lead, so the forwards dont try as hard after they score one, the mid rests and plays defense, and defense well that speaks for itself. The talent is not the trouble or tactics or even too much defense, it is sitting on the one goal lead. You have to score at least at least 3 to win, in my opinion. And they all can score, they always have many opportunities.

DON'T ****ING SIT ON ONE GOAL LEADS FOR THE LAST ****ING TIME! PLAY HARD GET ANOTHER ONE, THEN SIT BACK A LITTLE, BUT YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO BE UP BY AT LEAST TWO.
 

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I do not remember seeing an Azzurri side giving the ball away so easily and so often, it sickens me!

It looks like everyone is in 100% agreement about sitting on a 1 goal lead, I'm fed up with seeing it. The Koreans should've been beaten by half time.

What has happened to our midfield? There is NOTHING. Our play is far too narrow and there is no pace. The present tactics no longer work.
 

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I completly agree with what's being said here.
Football has moved on in the last few years, Italy never got on that train...

what the national teams needs is a coach with balls and an offensive way of thinking but i'm afraid there isn't even one Italian coach who thinks this way. maybe it's time to send all of Italy's coaches to learn something from the Spanish and the English leauge...

I think there are plenty of talented Italian players just waiting for a change in the way of thinking...

Penso Positivo !!!
 

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The major problem with Italian clubs in Europe is the fact that Spanish, English and even French clubs have Italy's old strategies found out. And sadly, it's also been found out on international level too.

Italian football needs a totally fresh approach if it's to remain competitive. Look at what Chievo have achieved over the last year because they brought a fresh approach to Serie A with free-flowing, attacking football. In direct defiance of common trends, especially relating to smaller clubs. Perhaps you could all learn from that.
 

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Finally, someone figuring out what the 'real problem' is
 

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the way Italy played in the 2nd half was terrible.

We played so deep in our own half and this meant that we didn't want to pass the ball around to settle down play because we were too close to our own goal. So we tried to kick the ball to who? Vieri. Totti was playing very deep and he is the only guy who can make good distribution.

The starting line-up on paper made some sense. But the line up that existed in the second half made no sense. You had Totti and Vieri up front which is OK if someone like Doni is in the midfield. But in the second half, we had Gattusso, Di Livio, Tomassi and Zanetti. All of whome are defensive and really cannot attack effectively.

We had 4 ball winners in midfielders but no one to create except Totti. But create for who? Vieri - one man. And he was exhausted - you can see it.

For Euro 2004 qualifying, I hope Trap plays:

_____________BUFFON____________

__________CANNA___NESTA________ (NO MORE MALDINI)
PANUCCI____________________COCO
______________ZANETTI___________
____ZAMBRO_____________DONI____
______________TOTTI_____________

__________VIERI___DEL PIERO______

I want to see midfielders like Corini, Liverani and Fiore feature more regularly. And strikers like Montella and Di Vaio.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I´m happy that you agree

with my opinion because i´m not an Italian and so i can only see the problems of Italian football from the "outside".

Look at the managers who are dominating Italian football for a lot of years.

Capello, Trapattoni, Zoff, Lippi, Zacceroni, Ancelotti

All these managers stand for a defensive way of coaching, and they are ruling Italian football in my opinion.

Everyone of these takes this club and then the other club and some take the National team.

But there is no young generation or offensive minded manager accepted in your league.

Thats why Chievo manager achieved so much, he played offensive and made the other Italian teams a hard time
I also want to say that offensive minded Terim wasn´t given a chance, to bring in his system.
After a few matches, the risk of getting too much goals was there and influenced by the defensive thinking old players of Milan they brought in Ancelotti, a defensive minded manager.


And so were the other European teams in the European competitions, they played offensive and cracked the old defensive system of Italian team.

And so did Croatia, Mexico and Korea.
 

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I actually think Del Neri could be an option.

Out of the coaches you mentioned, I actually think Lippi is the most aggressive.

But Del Neri's Chievo was a great team to watch. Look at the team. 3 Offensive midfielders and 2 strikers and mostly Italian....Imagine the same team with Nesta and Cannavaro in defence!.

They played with Eriberto, Manfredini, Corini and 2 strikers. When they played Italian teams their opponents would not attack because they had to defend. Attack is their form of defence. And the more you attack, the better you become because it becomes second nature.

I thought Milan's decision to sack Terim was terrible. Its the reason Milan screwed up. They bought players according to Terim's plans and then sack the coach after a few games. Stupid!
 

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For Euro 2004 qualifying, I hope Trap plays:


_____________BUFFON____________

___CANNAVARO__NESTA__MATERAZZI_

_ZAMBRO__AMBRO___TOTTI___COCO_

____INZAGHI____VIERI___DEL PIERO_



Now that's an offensive line up !!!

But I guess only a coach like Del Neri will have the balls to try such a predatory line up...
 

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Nowdays managers playing the most important role in a team.Look at Campionato.I don't think that Roma or Inter(especially) have so many better players from Milan or Lazio.They have two of the best coaches in the world and this makes Roma and Inter look so better teams. The same happening in national teams.Non of the teams which have the best players can't prouve it in the field.But England with a few good player(Beckham,Owen and two very good DC) seems the most hard team to be beaten,because they have the best manager.
This is the biggest problem of Italy for me and not the diffensive style(all the"big" national teams have a style of playing and Italy's style is the difensive.You can change it a little,but NEVER at all.)
The best for Italy's manager position coulb be Lippi.

FORZA ROMA!
FORZA ITALIA!
THEY HAD TO "STEAL" 5 GREAT GOALS,AN UNFAIR RED HARD AND 118 MINUTES TO ELIMINATE A BAD ITALIA FROM WORLD CUP.HOW MORE PROUD AN ITALIAN CAN BE?
 

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How about this one:

__________BUFFON___________

______CANNA_____NESTA______
ODDO__________________COCO
_____CORINI___AMBROSINI____

MONTELLA___TOTTI___DEL PIERO

___________VIERI___________
 
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