Xtratime Community banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
59,022 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Any hopes of getting into the second stages of the Asian cup in July 2004?

We've been drawn with China, Qatar and Bahrain. China beat us very comfortably last time we played them in the qualifications for the world cup :eek: and the sides from the Gulf are decent in Asia.

First two to qualify I think.
-------------

and the world cup draw ain''t too great either:

Saudi Arabia, Turkmenistan and Sri Lanka

Only the top team to qualify for the next stages. Sri Lanka should be a cake walk but Turkmenistan are alright (ex Soviet state so they should be able to kick a ball) and last but not least Saudi Arabia :eek: we'll need to perform like never before if we are to progress!

---------
I've only seen Indonesia a few times overhere (hard overhere in Holland). Once in the Asia cup in Lebannon against South Korea I think and against China in the world cup qualifiers and we looked poor :eek: any hopes for the future?

How is Kurniawan doing? I read that he once had a trial with Sampdoria and Luchesse and that he got convicted of taking drugs or something :eek: is he our biggest talent?

and btw what club team should I support? :D I got family in Pondok Indah in Jakarta so is there a team nearby? :D
Bandung is the strongest team isn't it? they had a Dutch coach not long ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,947 Posts
Ah Wally, I never thought you're Indonesian NT fan !! :D :smileani:

Well, the condition of Indonesian football is very dissappointing lately and probably the most declining era as a South East Asian football power. And seriously, I never expect Indonesia to meet China (which is also my favorite NT) again, but somehow it is fate that they're pretty often drawn into our group.

I seldom follow the news of Indonesian NT development, but from what I can tell, there isn't much improvement here. The last time Indonesian NT played in regional competition is about few months ago in SEA Games, but our NT was severely defeated by its arch-rival Thailand with 0-6 score. Many people are angry with this humiliating defeat. On the other hand, China looks developed themselves pretty well with their league. They have many good prospect youngsters like Qu Bo, Du Wei, An Qi and Dong Fangzhou. Not to mention that both Sun Jihai and Li Tie are still young as well. Really...it's very scary to think how our NT can survive if Arie Haan decides to use his best team, I can see 10-0 already.

And I don't even think we can pass against Qatar, their current coach is Phillipe Troussier who is one of maestro in international coaching. Qatar is not a simple team than it looks, even China had hard times to beat them in the past. Recently, Qatar League looks to have major improvement as they're willingly to spend money to hire former world class players such as Romario (already moved back to Brazil), Batistuta and Hierro. Bahrain is probably our best bet, but still Indonesian football had major set-back all this years and it's hard to predict how is our chance in this competition.

Actually, in my opinion, Indonesia has been lucky to get their ticket in Asia Cup 2004 since they got pretty weak teams in their group, except Saudi Arabia. We qualified after finished second, and at the match against Saudi Arabia we are routed 0-5 and 0-6 (it seems we have to get used to that scoreline from now on).

The situation in Indonesian football is pretty sad and concerned nowadays. The new chairman of the FA is none other than a big corruptor and nepotist, Nurdin Halid. At the day, he won the election, he decided to spent a billion rupiahs (about USD 120,000) to celebrate his 'victory' in his luxurious house in Cibubur instead of using it for the sake of national football. And the party was broadcasted lively and the way he announced the FA organizing members is similar to the way President of Republic of Indonesia announced his/her cabinet. In his campaign, he promised to make Indonesia qualified to World Cup 2010 (what a joke) and he would contact Bora Milutinovic if it's necessary. Now, the fact is, the FA still hasn't chosen new head coach for the NT to replace Ivan Kolev and the position has been vacuum for almost 3-4 months. They intended to recruit Peter Withe (a former Aston Villa player and successful coach of Thailand NT), but there isn't any clue until now.

Kurniawan ? Bah...it's a disgrace our NT has a player like him !!
:yuck: Not sure who is our biggest talent now, but I think Ilham Jayakesuma and Zainal Arif are good ones.

I don't know which club is the strongest in Indonesia nowadays, because there's always a new league winner in every seasons since Indonesian League started in '90. The league winner last season is Persik Kediri and the runner-up is PSM Makassar. And the club that represents Jakarta is Persija, but I highly recommend you to stay on supporting Feyenood and Spurs rather than watching them. It doesn't worth your time, believe me.
 

·
International
Joined
·
6,724 Posts
Zhuge Liang said:
And I don't even think we can pass against Qatar, their current coach is Phillipe Troussier who is one of maestro in international coaching. Qatar is not a simple team than it looks, even China had hard times to beat them in the past. Recently, Qatar League looks to have major improvement as they're willingly to spend money to hire former world class players such as Romario (already moved back to Brazil), Batistuta and Hierro. Bahrain is probably our best bet, but still Indonesian football had major set-back all this years and it's hard to predict how is our chance in this competition.
Qatar isn't so tough. Their league may be strong now, but their local players are nothing special.

Here are the results of Bahrain and Qatar from the Gulf Cup that was held 3 weeks ago:
Bahrain 0 - 0 Qatar (Bahrain were clearly the better team, Qatar were defending with 8 players for most of the match)
Bahrain 5 - 1 Yemen
Saudi Arabia 0 - 0 Qatar
Bahrain 0 - 1 Saudi Arabia
Bahrain 1 - 0 Oman
Qatar 0 - 0 UAE
Qatar 3 - 0 Yemen
Bahrain 3 - 1 UAE
Qatar 2 - 1 Kuwait
Bahrain 4 - 0 Kuwait
Oman 2 - 0 Qatar

Bahrain finished 2nd with 13 points, Qatar 3rd with 9 points. Bahrain also had the top scorer, and best player of the tournament. As you can see Qatar had three 0-0 draws, they play 8-1-1 formation against stronger opponents :yawn: ;) Troussier received severe criticism from the Qatari media.

Bahrain's football has improved a lot in the last 5 years. We slammed Iran's chances to qualify automatically to the 2002 World Cup after beating them 3-1. We finished 2nd in the last Gulf and Arab cups, both times behind Saudi Arabia. It was also named the Best Mover of the Year in the FIFA World Rankings for 2003. On the other hand, Qatari football was a never a powerhouse in the gulf region, and it's getting worse and worse.

IMO, Indonesia has a better chance to get a good result against Qatar than against Bahrain.

P.S. Viewers on www.footballasia.com think that China - Bahrain is the 2nd best match in the 1st round of the Asian Cup.
 

·
totally innocent
Joined
·
2,227 Posts
Bahrain is the best team in the group after China. They SHOULD qualify with them, but Qatar have a nasty talent for defensive football, so they might snatch draws and qualify on the back of the others dropping points against each other.

Unfortunately, I don't hold much hope for Indonesia. they looked pretty awful against Saudi, but you never know. You could get something against Qatar (and the whole Asia would be supporting you in that game ;) )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,844 Posts
Wally has Indonesian roots, Zhuge :)

Up to now I still hardly follow Indonesian football :eek: I remember when I found out about this grouping though, and the first thought that came to mind? We wouldn't qualify! There you have me, the pessimist :tongue:

I've met a few of the Indonesian NT players when the team came to Singapore for a friendly match a few years back. My uncle was the NT's goalie coach at that time, so it was quite great that I had that opportunity :) Kurniawan isn't that big of a deal (but I guess I'll say this about most Indonesian sportspeople! Ooops!). Our latest hype is Gendut Doni, no?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
Zhuge Liang said:

Kurniawan ? Bah...it's a disgrace our NT has a player like him !!
:yuck: Not sure who is our biggest talent now, but I think Ilham Jayakesuma and Zainal Arif are good ones.
its been quite a while since i last heard of Kurniawan. can u tell me how this guy can be a disgrace to the Indo NT?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,663 Posts
Kurniawan doesnt play well like he used to be before convicted in drugs issue. He had trialed by sampdoria along with kurnia sandy the goalkeeper. perhaps Wally, you had wrong spelling, he never played for Luchesse but he played for Lucern in the switzerland league for about 2 years or more. i dont remember. kurniawan is a nomad, he almost change his jersey before the new season start. he is currently playing in Persebaya Surabaya, my team. hidup bonek!!!! :D

regarding the most talented player right now, my vote goes to Persija's Bambang Pamungkas who had trialed by Roda JC years ago and Persebaya's Uston Nawawi the attacking midfielder :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59,022 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Persija it will be then :tongue: I got enough bad sides on my list, Zhuge. It'd fit well with Spurs :eek: :D

Only player I actually know is Kurniawan :D I remember him from the games I saw Indonesia cos of the fuzzy red hair he had, nothing else :eek:

Have we ever had more Indonesians except Kurniawan playing in foreign leagues btw? and if they are talented, where would they go, to the J league before Europe?

Maybe the national team can be strengthened if Dutch born Indonesians are called up for the national team. They are quite a few in the Dutch league like Danny Landzaat (parents come from Ambon) who would almost certainly get the level higher, but I'm not sure if his club would like him playing in qualifiers (like the Africans in Europe) :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,299 Posts
As far as I know, the grandfather or great grandfather of Johnny Heitinga and Giovanni van Bronchorst are also from Indonesia (I mean they are from Maluku; Ambon is the capital city of Maluku province). In one interview, Heitinga said that he liked Indonesian food very much.

As for Kurniawan, I see him playing was not as good as he used to be. When he was younger, less than 19 years old, he had excellent skill. I thought at that time, he was one of Indonesian footballers who can play football! (with several other players who had a chance to train in Italy, they played in Primaver League).

But, now, situation are different. I think Bambang Pamungkas is one of the best footballers in Indonesia.

I think if they are trained well, they can be a football player. Look at Denny Landzaat, Heitinga, or Gio. Maybe we can send the most talented kids to learn about football in Holland.

We send some of the most talented kids to Holland to learn football, while the others learn how Japan, South Korea educate their young generation to play football.

Nothing can be expected from Indonesian league now. We cannot see new stars emerge. Indonesian league is only able to produce below standard players.

But, we cannot blame only to the players why they can only play below standard. Our football association, PSSI, should be lead or managed by a person who understands well about football. Not only because he is business man or a retired general who only love watching football throuh a television channel, but don't know how to manage a football organization.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,299 Posts
Bambang Pamungkas plays for Persija, Jakarta, while Kurniawan plays for PSPS, Bengkulu (one of Indonesian provinces). Kurniawan is not the primary choice now.

I don't understand about this player. He had been given an opportunity to play with Sampdoria (at that time, Sampdoria was trained by Sven Goran Eriksson). He should have been able to play with Sampdoria at that time. He had the skills needed to play football in Italy. But I did not know what really happened, suddenly he returned to Indonesia.

As far as I know, it was Tord Gripp, the person who recommended him to play in Italy with Sampdoria. And then, based on his recommendation, Sampdoria accepted this player for trial. The trial was not completed yet, suddenly Kurniawan returned home, as I told you before.

Tord Gripp was Eriksson's assistant and now still his assistant, when Eriksson was appointed England manager. Tord Gripp also once become Indonesia NT coach.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,299 Posts
tonjaw said:
Kurniawan doesnt play well like he used to be before convicted in drugs issue. He had trialed by sampdoria along with kurnia sandy the goalkeeper. perhaps Wally, you had wrong spelling, he never played for Luchesse but he played for Lucern in the switzerland league for about 2 years or more. i dont remember. kurniawan is a nomad, he almost change his jersey before the new season start. he is currently playing in Persebaya Surabaya, my team. hidup bonek!!!! :D

regarding the most talented player right now, my vote goes to Persija's Bambang Pamungkas who had trialed by Roda JC years ago and Persebaya's Uston Nawawi the attacking midfielder :)
Sorry, I did not notice that tonjaw has written about Kurniawan's current club.

I hate bonek! They always create trouble! But, in general, I hate Indonesian supporters! Don't you ever meet them on the street after a football match.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,663 Posts
read previous posts before you write, mate. indonesian! always lazy as they use to be :D :tongue:

regarding indonesian blood in holland, i noticed that NEC's Jeffrey Leiwakabessy has indonesian root. look at his family name, dont you think he lives in Ambon? :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,663 Posts
Wally said:
Only player I actually know is Kurniawan :D I remember him from the games I saw Indonesia cos of the fuzzy red hair he had, nothing else :eek:
AFAIK Kurniawan never painted his hair. probably it is Rocky Puttiray you had seen. Rocky had trialed by ducth club once but i dont remember which club :)

yes kurniawan was the latest indonesian player who had played in europe. but before him, there was Ricky Jacobi who played in J League but finally he returned home for not being able to adapt with Japan weather :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,299 Posts
tonjaw said:
AFAIK Kurniawan never painted his hair. probably it is Rocky Puttiray you had seen. Rocky had trialed by ducth club once but i dont remember which club :)

yes kurniawan was the latest indonesian player who had played in europe. but before him, there was Ricky Jacobi who played in J League but finally he returned home for not being able to adapt with Japan weather :rolleyes:
Yes, Kurniawan has never painted his hair. It was Rocky Putiray who always painted his hair. But, Rocky was never trialed by a Dutch club, but by a French club. It was Nantes the club that trialed him. But, he failed and returned to Indonesia.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59,022 Posts
Discussion Starter #15

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,947 Posts
Peter Withe is a good coach, but I don't think he will improve Indonesian NT any better. The last time, Indonesia had the real chance to re-emerge as South East Asia best team is when the NT was coached by a Dutch coach called Henk Wullems. At that time, Indonesia plays better football than Thailand IMO, but they lost on penalty kicks against Thailand in SEA Games final. But now, the only thing I see is a declining quality of Indonesian football in every aspects.

Our football association has never paid attention to the importance of rising the standard of national team player. Although there're many imported players here, the quality of clubs in Premier Division here isn't better than villager kids standard. In J-League or C-League or some Arabian league, you would see that their technical ability is only 1 step behind European or South American league. For example : in the match between Saudi Arabia against Indonesia, the Saudi players has learned how to received the ball from lob pass by 'single touch', however Indonesian players still found it difficult to control the ball and often failed to take the pass eventhough it was actually accurate enough. This gap of quality is getting bigger and bigger.

Nowadays, in South East Asia, Indonesia is now not only facing Thailand as competitor, but there's also Vietnam which is ready to kick our ass in the future in case of nothing improved from us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
530 Posts
Peter White is still probably trying to seek potentially Indonesian's players in which developing scheme of his football in a terms. He certainly needs some time, and give his freedom to bond with players + build the strong 'underpinning' to say at least.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top