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Mourinho & Cassano!!
45,797 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
A certain Milan supporter continously goes around flashing around a stat. A stat showing that his team fouls much less (in number of fouls) than Juventus. However, Milan has more cards than Juventus, or just as many.

My question is that I don't understand the logic of that. I find it to be quite stupid. Yellows and reds are usually given for unprofessional fouls. A team can foul all day, but if the fouls are professional and within guidelines, no yellow. But if a player on a team that hardly fouls at all, goes in with two feet or is a last man, then he gets a card.

Bernmilan1 in the Milan forum said that "I'm thinking too much"> At the same time, you can't deny that some yellows are given for excessive fouling. After which the ref loses patience.

But what kind of argument is that in your opinion? Is a chart such as this:

Diavolo said:
A few stats:

Pos. Squadra Falli

1 Juventus 795 :eekani:

2 Messina 729

3 Bologna 728

4 Brescia 714

5 Palermo 698

6 Atalanta 695

7 Livorno 689

8 Cagliari 688

9 Reggina 680

10 Parma 667

11 Siena 647

12 Lecce 646

13 Sampdoria 643

14 Fiorentina 636

15 Roma 634

16 Internazionale 627

17 Udinese 615

18 Lazio 611

19 Chievo 576

20 Milan 574

Yellow cards:

Pos. Squadra Ammonizioni

1 Reggina 84

2 Bologna 79

2 Palermo 79

2 Messina 79

5 Roma 77

6 Brescia 76

6 Livorno 76

8 Lazio 74

9 Lecce 70

9 Parma 70

11 Cagliari 66

11 Chievo 66

11 Sampdoria 66

14 Internazionale 64

15 Fiorentina 60

16 Atalanta 57

16 Udinese 57

18 Juventus 55 :eekani:

19 Siena 53

20 Milan 50

Red cards:

Pos. Squadra Espulsioni

1 Parma 10

1 Chievo 10

3 Lazio 9

4 Brescia 8

4 Cagliari 8

4 Siena 8

7 Roma 6

7 Reggina 6

9 Atalanta 5

9 Milan 5

9 Bologna 5

9 Fiorentina 5

9 Palermo 5

9 Messina 5

15 Livorno 4

15 Lecce 4

15 Sampdoria 4

18 Internazionale 3

18 Udinese 3

20 Juventus 2 :eekani:

really mean what it is intended to mean? In my eyes no. B/c a team can foul once in a day and have it a bad challenge and a yellow. But a team that fouls professionally ten times in a day might not get any yellows. In terms of red cards, which Milan has 2x Juve's total, the argument of mine is even stronger. Just b/c a team fouls the most doesn't mean it deserves a red card. Inter could foul 1 time the whole day , but if it is a last man foul, bang- red card. But Juve fouls like thirty times in a day. all professional. Maybe one yellow for crazy behavior, but the rest of it is 0 red cards.

See my logic?

I want to clear this up once and for all. I want to hear the expert's opinions on this, b/c Vagabondo commented that its a shame that in the Italian Serie A, the cards # and fouls # don't match up. My question- should it match up?

23,341 Posts
Wouldn't that depend on the type and severity of the foul?

Some people may expect the ratio of fouls to cards to be similar for all clubs, that means the distribution of fouls to be similar for every club as well but that's not necessarily the case or should be.

Mourinho & Cassano!!
45,797 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Exactly. Here's an example. In a recent Milan derby, or maybe the Roma game, I'm not sure, however, so don't quote me on this, I saw Roma or Inter (I forgot) committ like twenty fouls in the first minutes of match. All were okay fouls, not too bad. But then Stam went in and just hacked someone down unprofessionally. He got a yelllow, tho Milan only had 3 fouls compared to Roma's 20. That is a prime example of why such an argument holds no ground.

Xtratime's Head of Humour 2007
63,337 Posts
the stat does look a bit fishy to me, over 200 more fouls and less yellows, of course Milan have Gattuso who if late can look like some kind of homicidal maniac the way he flies in :D how many has he got ?

it's hard to judge without watching the games, certainly United in England get away with much more than any other team, Scholes, Rooney, Smith all get away with recklessness on a weekly basis, it has nothing to do with fouling professionally they just get away with it more.

Freedom for all
16,851 Posts
Well, it always depends on the fouls involved, but I'd like to point out that persistant fouling is itself a bookable offence. Thus a guy might commit 5 fouls and get booked, and another person might commit 1 bad foul and also get booked. The problem is always the referee's lack of consistency. If you're going to book someone for clipping heels, then you need to do it to everyone who does the same foul.

1st Tier Poster
50,459 Posts
The fact that Juve is first on committed fouls, but has very few yellows and reds, leaves only 3 options:

1. They play tough, but fair.

2. They buy the refs.

3. Both combined.

Maybe we should have a poll on that.

12,237 Posts
Of course there's something wrong when there is such a vast difference--you would expect the numbers to be somewhat connected, even if it naturally cannot be down to every single decimal.

Mourinho & Cassano!!
45,797 Posts
Discussion Starter #8

1,123 Posts
Define a foul. Work out that a shove or tap or backing into the keeper or climbing on a defender can constitute a foul and then think that they are generally overlooked as "petty fouls". Then consider that it is not how many fouls a team commits in a game but generally bookings are awarded for serious or persistent fouling.

You'd think the number of fouls would correlate with the number of yellows but that doesn't necessarily follow

31,893 Posts
its pretty subjective as some of you put it. Example, you have totti getting a red for no playing-foul. That SPIT is heavier than the tackle.

But still, its fishy, Juve is always Generating 'fishiness'. From Rolexes to Syringes, to Penalties-awarded, to Extra-miniutes-in-extra-time etc etc.

1,123 Posts
You can also get booked for kicking the ball away, kicking the ball at the crowd, time wasting, dissent, diving........ and that's just man utd :D
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