Xtratime Community banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,299 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Feel free to merge this into the appropriate thread.

For a while I've been watching whatever games I can find on tv, the latest game I watched was the 2-2 draw between Sao Paulo and Paranaense. So I'm wondering how come guys like Ilsinho and Dagoberto do not get called up to play? Or even someone like Fernandinho?

I think that these guys could do alright considering that someone like Fred got called up to the Copa America yet he was so injured. Also, I also know of other players like Kleber for example who could also be given a chance right?

Anyways, what is it about these guys that prevent them from playing for the NT?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
29,400 Posts
Ilsinho had past calls, but see, he is not a starter for São Paulo. It is (i think) his 7th game in hte league or something.

Fernandinho is ok, but he is not a starter either.

Dagoberto is a player that could have been called a hundred times. But since he is now aged (must be 29 or something) it is very hard to see him having first calls.

now our teams and players face two problems:

- Calendar. Unlike Europe our calendar is a mess, so the official competitions do not halt during FIFA Dates. This have been for years and no attempt to fix it. (in fact Globo insist to promote the return of old system, that had a worst calendar and increase size of regionals). This make our clubs to bitch considerable when players are called. In the past there was a deal that only 2 players would be called. I do not know if still, but the NT coaches clearly try to get out of conflict. This damages the NT a lot, and also several players.

- The dumb idea that Europe is better. So they call bench warmers or "great" players from teams that would struggle to get a final spot in São Paulo. This also make players and agent believe going to any team in europe would be better than staying here. Ilsinho pretty much vanished from NT when he did it. This year, Tardelli for example had regular calls while playing here. He would probally be an option, but went to nowhere (Russia) to play.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,299 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Those were just names, but I'm sure there are at least 20 players we could name that could have been called up but they have not.

About the calender, I guess that depends on the reserves and the squad depth right? Was Santos complaining during the Copa America when Ganso, Elano and Neymar weren't playing. I think that you could have added Edu Dracena to that too considering he was the captain who lifted the Libatadores. I'm familiar with Edu as he did play for my club..
But if the clubs make such a big scene don't the players have something to say? If a player like Dagoberto had his chance would he still be playing in Brazil? Maybe he could have left to play in Europe( for more money, not a 'bigger league') the same way other players went to Europe.

Also comes to mind is Alex who is at Corinthians. And like I said Kleber and Palmerias. If I think of more I'll ask, but I think you get the point. Why are guys like Fred still being called up??
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
29,400 Posts
Yes, Santos was complaning. In fact, Muricy 2 days ago complained again. Santos changed dates of his games (a privilegy that many teams never had, right Inter and Cruzeiro and funny enough, Dracena had his "i deserve the nt call" and Santos is suffering goals after goals).

Dagoberto could have gone either he was called or not. São Paulo has stability and hold him. But he would leave to a crap team (see problem 2) and vanish. Europe hires anything we sell.

As Alex, he is another example. A regular while playing here, vanished in europe. And Kleber is just not NT material. It is an idiot with no professional commitment and a ridiculous baby that everytime a team needs on decisive momment he does not goes there.

There is of course names, Mano is not even that bad and having games back in brazil helps. But the thing is when the World Cup come closes - in 2006 and 2010 there was no games like we used to have to flll the squad. For example, I am sure Botafogo's Cortes will vanish in europe before stabiishing himself. In Europe he will be used on attack, and this will destroy him in NT, because going foward he is fine, good vision indeed, make me remind of Ze Roberto when Started.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,299 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Ok, so then how do those players who may be good enough get a chance? I understand that there are so many players to choose from and I'm sure that most of the squad is already decided right? Its fair to assume that guys like Ramires, Neymar, Robinho, and Luisao will make it no matter what as long as they play for their club right?

But at what point do they decide that Elano can be replaced by someone else. Or that lazy ass Andre Santos should be replaced by someone else, who happens to play in Brazil. For example, you can always say that Marcelo would be the most 'popular' choice for left back because he plays for Madrid. But how would Mano decide to take a player in the local league?

It seems like back in the day, the copa america squads would be the B team right? and the friendlies would always have newer players, yet when it came to the WC the best players were taken. Like the copa america squad in 2001 comapred to the wc2002 squad is pretty different. What resulted in these changes and how come today we don't see this going on?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,417 Posts
...we will soon find out who the best players in Brazil are: we are playing 2 games x Argentina with only players playing in Brazil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
...we will soon find out who the best players in Brazil are: we are playing 2 games x Argentina with only players playing in Brazil.
Dont overrate this, do not forget that the Argies also will play without their best players, and the brasileirao has better players than the Argentine league.

The best players for the NT, IMHO are the ones who play for the team and not for their indvidual glory , and can creat a team with a good entrosamento, which was missing in the last games.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,417 Posts
Dont overrate this, do not forget that the Argies also will play without their best players, and the brasileirao has better players than the Argentine league.

The best players for the NT, IMHO are the ones who play for the team and not for their indvidual glory , and can creat a team with a good entrosamento, which was missing in the last .
I do not understand your comment. I am looking forward to it - perhaps we should just pick Brazil-based players for all games going forward.
 

·
Bernard > Messi
Joined
·
2,687 Posts
For a while I've been watching whatever games I can find on tv, the latest game I watched was the 2-2 draw between Sao Paulo and Paranaense. So I'm wondering how come guys like Ilsinho and Dagoberto do not get called up to play? Or even someone like Fernandinho?
lol

you managed to name 2 guys that don't even are starters for their team.

I'll explain to you why they aren't even starters in their team (NT is out of their reach lol):

Fernandinho is horrible. There are 5000 players like him in Brazil, mostly don't even turn pro but he had a good manager(Traffic) and a bit of lucky too... He can only drible, in fact he's amazing at dribbling to his left (he can only do this, when he catches the ball you know he'll turn his head down and dribble to his left). He also plays in the "Myself Football Club"

That's why he's not a starter for SP...

Isinho nowadays is also horrible. He was a good (overrated) rightback back in the day but now he can't run and can't defend so he plays midfield and he's not good enough for that, that's why he's not a starter for SP. The game you watched and he scored was the first game he started in a long time. Some games he didn't even was listed to be on the bench...

He started because SP managers have a good relationship with him and they wanted to give him an opportunity to showcase his football because they wouldn't renew the contract with him.

Dagoberto was a good player too but he's a choker and he have problems scoring, he somehow improved tho.

But he only plays well in insignificant games and he does have a serious tendency of not giving a **** for the most of the games. He's also a member of the MFC...

His contract will end in 6 month and until few months ago SP choose to not renew his contract but ironically (not really) with his contract/career on the line he's having his best season since he joined SP in 2007...

He's playing well this year then someone will offer him a shitload of money for 5-6 years then he'll coast until the end of his new contract, you can bet on that :howler:.

Anyway, answering your real question: that's why brazil have only 5 WC... We have a lot of 'talented' players but most have a shitty attitude, they lack professionalism and are not willing to commit on the hard work to improve their weaknesses.

Fernandinho could be a good player if he learned how to simply USE his right foot... or if he learned how to kick a ball, how to score, how to pass the ball, etc...

If he simply learned how to play with his head up sometimes he already would be a much better player.
 

·
Bernard > Messi
Joined
·
2,687 Posts
Like the copa america squad in 2001 comapred to the wc2002 squad is pretty different. What resulted in these changes and how come today we don't see this going on?
actually that's really different... the NT was in a huge crisis in 2000-2002 and a lot of HORRIBLE players were called... Including guys that won the world cup in 2002...

SO yeh, at the time a lot of players were tested due to crisis and because of that we had 3 different coaches in a span of 2 years (luxemburgo, the horrible Leão, and Scolari).
 

·
Rei Brasileiro
Joined
·
8,569 Posts
Dagoberto scored a helluva goal against us last week end...
:(

he's too old now.

things like the upcoming competition and age are taken into consideration whenever a coach chooses.
Tho- if youre gonna pick ronaldinho you might as well pick dagoberto
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
23,575 Posts
He is old for 2014 but he is a very good player, too bad he is selfish and that São Paulo current defense is so shit. To think Juvenal let Alex Silva go and even made fun of him ****ing senile bastard.
 

·
This is NOT Akhisar!
Joined
·
14,463 Posts
Fernandinho is a very good player, I don't know what are you guys bitching about?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,299 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
lol

you managed to name 2 guys that don't even are starters for their team.

I'll explain to you why they aren't even starters in their team (NT is out of their reach lol):

Fernandinho is horrible. There are 5000 players like him in Brazil, mostly don't even turn pro but he had a good manager(Traffic) and a bit of lucky too... He can only drible, in fact he's amazing at dribbling to his left (he can only do this, when he catches the ball you know he'll turn his head down and dribble to his left). He also plays in the "Myself Football Club"

That's why he's not a starter for SP...

Isinho nowadays is also horrible. He was a good (overrated) rightback back in the day but now he can't run and can't defend so he plays midfield and he's not good enough for that, that's why he's not a starter for SP. The game you watched and he scored was the first game he started in a long time. Some games he didn't even was listed to be on the bench...

He started because SP managers have a good relationship with him and they wanted to give him an opportunity to showcase his football because they wouldn't renew the contract with him.

Dagoberto was a good player too but he's a choker and he have problems scoring, he somehow improved tho.

But he only plays well in insignificant games and he does have a serious tendency of not giving a **** for the most of the games. He's also a member of the MFC...

His contract will end in 6 month and until few months ago SP choose to not renew his contract but ironically (not really) with his contract/career on the line he's having his best season since he joined SP in 2007...

He's playing well this year then someone will offer him a shitload of money for 5-6 years then he'll coast until the end of his new contract, you can bet on that :howler:.

Anyway, answering your real question: that's why brazil have only 5 WC... We have a lot of 'talented' players but most have a shitty attitude, they lack professionalism and are not willing to commit on the hard work to improve their weaknesses.

Fernandinho could be a good player if he learned how to simply USE his right foot... or if he learned how to kick a ball, how to score, how to pass the ball, etc...

If he simply learned how to play with his head up sometimes he already would be a much better player.
Thats a pretty good insight. I'll be watching more games in the up coming weeks and I can hopefully provide you with better names:howler:
 

·
The one who was Bella
Joined
·
20,196 Posts
Theres too much offensive powers to waste a spot on him tbh. although he's been knocking them in since the season started, and keeps scoring golaso after golaso each time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Dagoberto is like 28, why would we use him in the Olympics?

He had potential, but he didn't care, Dagoberto never cares actually, the definition of lethargic.

Yeah, he scores great goals, but he hardly scores a lot.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top