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I didn't got more mad than what already I am...but this kid Correa, even being, half the size, not playing the same role, not even slightly scoring as much, not even being half as fast, nor ending his plays as good as he must do, etc etc etc.. style-wise in certain plays, with the use of the reverse of his foot and the effect on the ball when passing, or the way he uses his instep for dribbling, passing or striking the ball, the use of his body when protecting the it, some changes of pace (thought he lacks speed), the way he scores the few goals he made, his out of nothing attempts and improvisation in tight spaces and relentless approach...doesn't make you recall for moments to the venerable style of el Gordo Ronnie?...

this is a very long clip with many errors, or plays starting really good and ending really bad etc, a clear immature and not even close as overwhelming as Ronnie was even as a very young teen.....but I can easily spot at least 10 plays that made me suddenly think.."este boludo a veces se mueve, la lleva, le pega e intenta cosas al estilo del gordo ronaldo"..(this boludo sometimes carries the ball, strikes and tries stuff in Ronnie's style)...the goal on 25:20 is Ronnie back....

of course I'm not stupid, I'm not comparing the players but the style in certain occasions......yeah I miss el gordo and that has a lot to do but I was watching him in this clip while thinking who was him reminding me in some moves and finally in that goal in 25:20 I've said to myself: "es el gordo, se parece al gordo a veces con las cosas que hace o intenta..."

skjCcUGGJ1g
 

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So far, seems like Fangio jynxed even a player from the pope's team.
 

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I was actually more impressed by Villalba. Speed demon on the right wing, made Samudio a clown in the last match.

Let's hope both of them will be in their best tonight. :)

By the way Fangio, is this Gentilletti defender as good as he's playing this Libertadores? Every Cuervos game I've watched recently he impressed. We may need another Argentinan defender after OTAMONSTER leaves (too sad to admit he'll go, the most atleticano defender I've ever seen).
 

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I was actually more impressed by Villalba. Speed demon on the right wing, made Samudio a clown in the last match.

Let's hope both of them will be in their best tonight. :)
Yeah,him and the Buffarini destroyed cruzeiro left. But Correa and also Piatti, can play better. In the end, it is the youth, they were too eager to finish or pass, dribble all cruzeiro team, as if they had to score like crazy. A little mind and they would have walked in Cruzeiro defense.


By the way Fangio, is this Gentilletti defender as good as he's playing this Libertadores? Every Cuervos game I've watched recently he impressed. We may need another Argentinan defender after OTAMONSTER leaves (too sad to admit he'll go, the most atleticano defender I've ever seen).
Oh, man, are you also falling for the Otamedia? Sure, the guy is a lion, but there is such exageration about his qualities. He had anwful game and that flying kick he gave, serious, that is not how to defend at all. It reminded me of the old Werleis and cia. Who would always commit the penalty in a side move for going like crazy, something Rever and Leonardo Silva had kept us from suffering recently. Luckly, Heder was not in one his "lets **** atletico" days and that player was that idiot, Luan. Dagoberto would suffer the penatly, step over otamendi and get him red carded.

Maybe if stayed, with Rever behind him, he would be less crazy...
 

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Yeah,him and the Buffarini destroyed cruzeiro left. But Correa and also Piatti, can play better. In the end, it is the youth, they were too eager to finish or pass, dribble all cruzeiro team, as if they had to score like crazy. A little mind and they would have walked in Cruzeiro defense.
Yes, it has to be the youth because I can't believe a team can win a league finishing like that. I've saw this Piatti guy against Botafogo (first game) and Cruzeiro and he looked a terrible player. I couldn't even understand his role in the team, because he didn't look like a playmaker and couldn't make a single decent shot against Fabio.

Oh, man, are you also falling for the Otamedia? Sure, the guy is a lion, but there is such exageration about his qualities. He had anwful game and that flying kick he gave, serious, that is not how to defend at all. It reminded me of the old Werleis and cia. Who would always commit the penalty in a side move for going like crazy, something Rever and Leonardo Silva had kept us from suffering recently. Luckly, Heder was not in one his "lets **** atletico" days and that player was that idiot, Luan. Dagoberto would suffer the penatly, step over otamendi and get him red carded.
Come on JC, you can't be serious. WERLEY? Come on...

I hate all the media, Jaecis, Lelios ans stuff, I don't even read opinions regarding football because two years ago when I gave a chance to the Itatiaia morons I saw "journalists" saying we should fire Cuca and Rever...

Otamendi is just AWESOME, man. Ok, his technique is just average, on the ball he may be much inferior than Leonardo Silva (our most underrated player IMO) and especially Réver, but in every single other aspect of the game the guy's a top player. His determination, concentration and physical fitness (and everything related to that, from jumping to acceleration) are world-class level. The guy is freaking monster in the aerial game (WERLEY DUDE, can't still believe you said that), a monster in the physical confrontation, his awareness is out of this world.

I liked this player since his first game here and in the match against Goias I fell in love. The guy has his tickets to Spain already bought, he knows he will be in the WC and he knows he'll go to a bigger league and yet he gives a shit more than any other player on the field. He is an one man army on the defense. I hope we keep him forever.

And the last game was far from his best, actually it was his worst recent performance.
 

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Come on JC, you can't be serious. WERLEY? Come on...
Don't get me wrong, what Otamendi have of Good, he have better than Werley, but they both have the same "walking disaster" feeling, on the decisions they take, acting in a complete careless way. I always have the feeling it is where things would happen. It is not a certainty, like Richarlysson, but Otamendi strikes me with the Paulo Roberto Sydrome. Perfect game, then at the last minute, he would do the eventual penalty on Alex Alves.

I hate all the media, Jaecis, Lelios ans stuff, I don't even read opinions regarding football because two years ago when I gave a chance to the Itatiaia morons I saw "journalists" saying we should fire Cuca and Rever...
I am talking also about fans. I saw people saying Otamendi was the best defender they ever saw (He is not better than Leonardo Silva and not close of Rever, but now, Rever with a broken foot is the "real" rever and not the monster we had for 3 years, while having werley as partner or to cover for richarlyson).

Otamendi is just AWESOME, man. Ok, his technique is just average, on the ball he may be much inferior than Leonardo Silva (our most underrated player IMO) and especially Réver, but in every single other aspect of the game the guy's a top player. His determination, concentration and physical fitness (and everything related to that, from jumping to acceleration) are world-class level. The guy is freaking monster in the aerial game (WERLEY DUDE, can't still believe you said that), a monster in the physical confrontation, his awareness is out of this world.
Oh, yeah, he is great on 1-1, will not stop running... Will be Pierre. I think his covering is not as good, he does not cover the space, but chases the ball. You can see, he is that kind of player. I will not complian that his passing is poor, albeit he takes more risks with that than someone with his quality should be allowed, but then he is no Rever. You can live with a defender like this, no problem, my problem is how he does not know when to stop and in his eargness he does the blunders he does. It was not just Cruzeiro game. For 89 minutes he wins the game for you, but in that 1 minute he may lose it for you.

I liked this player since his first game here and in the match against Goias I fell in love. The guy has his tickets to Spain already bought, he knows he will be in the WC and he knows he'll go to a bigger league and yet he gives a shit more than any other player on the field. He is an one man army on the defense. I hope we keep him forever.
Yeah, of course, he is a kind of player to be admired. But really, tell me a great defender who does that flying kick.

And the last game was far from his best, actually it was his worst recent performance.
And yet, he was considered the best of the game, just like in the first games, no matter what happened, Tardelli being praised for doing almost nothing and playing that "playmaker" role, which despite all effort Tardelli does, he is very limited on it.
 

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Malucos is not that I'm IMPRESS with Correa (thought I thing he has a bag of skills that he still he don't know when to open it and when to merely hide it)...in fact I feel that his youth like J said and his far from tidy and eager to impress approach might hurt extremely badly his carrier...too many cases like him...

but really in many of the situations I've pointed out he reminded manners of the holy one and I didn't felt them instantly, was after watching some random control between two fellas and his quick reaction when I thought: "that was very gordo alike"...BTW If I jinx San Lorenzo so be it, I have a grudge on them since ever

I'm in between with Ota, because I think that as CB he is more skilled than Robert is sayin but like J is saying his loose self (or even crazy) in occasions might make him look worse technically than he is...all in all more focus he is very good defender with great presence....looks also that many of those crazy moments J is talking about come in two circumstances: when he feels totally out of place and mad (like a fullback with Diegote) or on contrair when he feels too much important and a leader (he overreact with his "lion" presence...a bit Puyolesque in his youth)...
 

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San Lorenzo would have a good team if they could stay 3,4 years, I think. But of course, they may play the semifinals already with a complete new team. But what is this jynx of San Lorenzo, why those argies have this candy-eye for Cruzeiro? If there is a momment to kick cruzeiro out is now, the team is completely tired after last year run and their main weapon, the pressure on offensive field is very weakned. SL just need calm and explain to them, that the goalkeeper there wont be allowing goals from just anywhere and play like a team.

Ota is the kind of player that needs a leash. A tight one. He could have really learnt a lot playing with Rever, too bad it was too short and during all this time, Rever is broken down.
 

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Otamendi is a dummy who makes game-deciding mistakes on a consistent basis.

He is an unreliable CB.

Who wants an unreliable CB in the heart of their defense?


If he had more technique he would be a great DM, I'll give him that - but on face value he is a net-negative CB.
 

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Otamendi is a dummy who makes game-deciding mistakes on a consistent basis.

He is an unreliable CB.

Who wants an unreliable CB in the heart of their defense?


If he had more technique he would be a great DM, I'll give him that - but on face value he is a net-negative CB.
Inter has a fetish for those kind of defenders and in fact it won't be that unlikely if at some point he ends there....


Players has stages, some advance, others stagnate, the Ota from Velez was quite a remarkable player, the one in Porto I dunno, the one in the NT with Maradona in the NT was insanely bad, but I give credit to Dieguito for that...

in these last years when I watch him sporadically he stills has what it takes to be the kiddo he once was and not the Otamonster he feels to be....but of course Velez is a club that has a a very strong identity regarding what a team implies and that clearly helped him to control his "lion" self....in some ways is like when Carlitos plays the "people choice" to a bad extreme
 

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Well, he is going to Valencia and the identidy of that club will be discussing "how sexy" his tattoos are...
 

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Don't get me wrong, what Otamendi have of Good, he have better than Werley, but they both have the same "walking disaster" feeling, on the decisions they take, acting in a complete careless way. I always have the feeling it is where things would happen. It is not a certainty, like Richarlysson, but Otamendi strikes me with the Paulo Roberto Sydrome. Perfect game, then at the last minute, he would do the eventual penalty on Alex Alves.
Couldn't disagree more, mate. Werley was a bad player all the time, he was terrible in the air, poor techically and his positioning was just laughable. He was also a dreamland player, while Otamendi is one of the most concentrated defenders I've ever saw. Even in the physical aspect there's no resemblance, Werley was just fast, such a garbage using his body and in the physical confrontation. Playing for Grêmio he developed his antecipation, so he went from disaster to a bad player.

I don't agree with this "time bomb" label you put on him, he didn't show this rate of mistakes here and Leonardo Silva was also labeled by some as a potential game loser (unfair too). I do agree Réver is still our best defender overall, since his quality with the ball is just crazy for a CB.


Otamendi is still young for a defender, CBs usually take more time to reach their peak, and I think in the future he won't be a player for Valencia, but for something bigger.

And just like Réver had to deal with some dangers in his own team, Otamendi has to deal with Alex Silva as a RB, a dumb player who leaves his position in the 88th minute of a decisive match in a "golden goal" situation, that is the real danger we have on the team, let's hope Rocha gets back soon, I thought I'd never say we need him back on the DEFENSE, but we do.
 

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Couldn't disagree more, mate. Werley was a bad player all the time, he was terrible in the air, poor techically and his positioning was just laughable. He was also a dreamland player, while Otamendi is one of the most concentrated defenders I've ever saw. Even in the physical aspect there's no resemblance, Werley was just fast, such a garbage using his body and in the physical confrontation. Playing for Grêmio he developed his antecipation, so he went from disaster to a bad player.
Like I said, all Otamendi has of good, Werley has a bad. The similarity is the time bomb thing. In handful of games he had with us I recall the America-MG mistake, the Nacional-Par dumb penalty, the two against Cruzeiro in the last game, those insame moves with Everthon Ribeiro in the second game of the final, two in the second semifinal against America (he deflected two crosses back to victor)... It is like the unluckiest defender man ever, that dodges bullets but when stops to breath is hit by a little children throwing mud balls.

I don't agree with this "time bomb" label you put on him, he didn't show this rate of mistakes here and Leonardo Silva was also labeled by some as a potential game loser (unfair too). I do agree Réver is still our best defender overall, since his quality with the ball is just crazy for a CB.
Must say that Porto people also described him as a great defender during the games until he does little mistake that screw his entire work.

Anyways, anyone saying Leonardo Silva is a bomb must be with penis envy for Kalil stealing him from Cruzeiro. At Cruzeiro and with Atletico,if anything, he often became a monster on decisive games, playing way beyond his normal and often turning in an offensive weapon. Even now, when he recently (for the first time) tried to dribble a player in the area and lost (in the final with Cruzeiro, first game, and in the Goias game), he didn't the usual richarlyson and kicked the adversary.


Otamendi is still young for a defender, CBs usually take more time to reach their peak, and I think in the future he won't be a player for Valencia, but for something bigger.
I blame argentina. According to some dude in the television, they pratice those flying kicks to hit the ball with the hand and look like a natural movement. Fangio can confirm it, plenty of games where the argie defenders start flying on the field, one after another :D

Now seriously, Valencia seems like a laundry machine with some deals, so I do not imagine any player staying there for long.

And just like Réver had to deal with some dangers in his own team, Otamendi has to deal with Alex Silva as a RB, a dumb player who leaves his position in the 88th minute of a decisive match in a "golden goal" situation, that is the real danger we have on the team, let's hope Rocha gets back soon, I thought I'd never say we need him back on the DEFENSE, but we do.
Yeah, but Alex is nothing near Richarlyson who would do the dumb stuff near the area and Alex is on right side, exposing Leonardo Silva (which speed was never big). And anyways, Marcos Rocha Buarque de Holanda is a proto-Roberto Carlos. Prone to his daydreammings, actually good due his physical strength on 1-1, and exposed because he was fundamental to the offensive set-up (now they classifiy atletico as a Ligação Direta, forgetting the role of Marcos Rocha to link the team from the right side). He clearly improved, even became less violent, and it is really a good thing Alex is that selfish (not just not returning, but he likes to dribble too much) to see people giving Marcos Rocha some vallue.
 

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Like I said, all Otamendi has of good, Werley has a bad. The similarity is the time bomb thing. In handful of games he had with us I recall the America-MG mistake, the Nacional-Par dumb penalty, the two against Cruzeiro in the last game, those insame moves with Everthon Ribeiro in the second game of the final, two in the second semifinal against America (he deflected two crosses back to victor)... It is like the unluckiest defender man ever, that dodges bullets but when stops to breath is hit by a little children throwing mud balls.
Nacional? Not even cruzeirenses would say this, dude. That was not even close to a penalty, I even checked the replay now and it doesn't make any sense blaming him for that.

I didn't watch the second game against Cruzeiro but I've saw all other Otamendi's games, yes, there was a mistake against America, I can also recall a bad positioning in the goal we conceeded away to Santa Fé, maybe some more, but his overall form gave us safety, not danger. Being picky I could also point a handful of mistakes Leonardo Silva made in 20 games this season, only in the four Brasileiro games: two against Corinthians in the first minutes and leaving his position in the goal cruzeiro scored.

I also talked to some Porto supporter and he gave very positive feedback on him, seemed even surprised he ended up in the Brazilian league. Now the media is all over him and I'll keep and eye if the protagonist spot doesn't swallow him like Fangio said (for the Cruzeiro game I would say this is true, but for now it's just one bad game after a few man of the match displays.

About Leonardo Silva, I think some people labeled him like that because of that penalty against Tijuana. Anyway, I completely disagree, he's a fantastic defender.

On Alex Silva, he played more games this season as a left-back and he's capable of creating danger for all the defensive system. In my biased eyes I want to see a potential Maicon because of his speed and physical power dribbling but I just see danger. This guy needs a kid yeller like Muricy to tell him to keep his spot in the key moments, he's simply not ready to play professional football in a class A league.

Rocha Buarque showed great improvement in his defensive game this season, Paulo Autuori is really a genius, worked well in a player to do better defensively and ended up shadowing his main role. The Parreira school of the organization without life and movement, could've worked if we had a central midfielder to do the link like Elias and still had Bernard on the team.
 

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Nacional? Not even cruzeirenses would say this, dude. That was not even close to a penalty, I even checked the replay now and it doesn't make any sense blaming him for that.
It was not a penalty, just like the thing with Luan was not. But if you pay attention, you see why he was there allowing the pk- he didnt stop to think "My teammate is the one in the line to cut the ball, if he do a mistake I must cover him" and went with Leonardo Silva on the same line -Granted, it was one of his first games, two defenders going for the same ball is a mistake.

I didn't watch the second game against Cruzeiro but I've saw all other Otamendi's games, yes, there was a mistake against America, I can also recall a bad positioning in the goal we conceeded away to Santa Fé, maybe some more, but his overall form gave us safety, not danger. Being picky I could also point a handful of mistakes Leonardo Silva made in 20 games this season, only in the four Brasileiro games: two against Corinthians in the first minutes and leaving his position in the goal cruzeiro scored.
There are mistakes that I do not mind much, the goal against Atletico he was following the ball not the player, for example. Happens. It is natural, nobody is perfect. I mean some mistakes that are almost funny, which make we even think: why? Because his fight indeed make people like him. It is like the flying kick on luan. Why? He does not need to go like a bull in every ball, sometimes he can be more carefull.

I also talked to some Porto supporter and he gave very positive feedback on him, seemed even surprised he ended up in the Brazilian league. Now the media is all over him and I'll keep and eye if the protagonist spot doesn't swallow him like Fangio said (for the Cruzeiro game I would say this is true, but for now it's just one bad game after a few man of the match displays.
Ah, I am not saying it about Otamendi just now (sure here in the forum, but them, nobody to talk here). Stank saw me talking about him in the same lines in the early games in the chatbox and also with Joshua.

About Leonardo Silva, I think some people labeled him like that because of that penalty against Tijuana. Anyway, I completely disagree, he's a fantastic defender.
Which indeeded he failed there, but the guy has 2 years of good games and is labeled by one game... But then, there is people who thinks Neto Berola is a underated genius :wallbang:

On Alex Silva, he played more games this season as a left-back and he's capable of creating danger for all the defensive system. In my biased eyes I want to see a potential Maicon because of his speed and physical power dribbling but I just see danger. This guy needs a kid yeller like Muricy to tell him to keep his spot in the key moments, he's simply not ready to play professional football in a class A league.
Most games with the b team, no? Anyways in the youth team he was better at left too, i think the fact he has to stop to bring the ball to the right side make he think once or while. He needs a lot of improvement, he is like a Daniel Alves wanna be... Even offensivelly he dribbles too much and is a bit of headless chicken.

Rocha Buarque showed great improvement in his defensive game this season, Paulo Autuori is really a genius, worked well in a player to do better defensively and ended up shadowing his main role. The Parreira school of the organization without life and movement, could've worked if we had a central midfielder to do the link like Elias and still had Bernard on the team.
But Bernard, which was the team in the last 2 years, would just change the team to have life and movement. Autuori :wallbang:

M.Rocha was in a improvement path, last year his tackling success improved a lot, which means his timing was improved. Also, he got more selective with his run fowards. But the guy is too blaze in his "geniality"...
 
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