First of all, I'm totally in favour of the Catalan National Teams. I think that we're a nation and I think that we should have the right to compete in international competitions, in football or in any sport. I think that this feeling is shared by most of the Catalan people.mincecfc said:
Yes, there are several symbols of the Franquismo in some cities and towns. When the left dominated in the 80s, most of these symbols, names of streets, etc. disappeared and perhaps they left some, because the long Franco era was too near and the goal was not finishing with the last 40 years in one second, but doing a peaceful transition from the dictatorship to the democracy. The memories of the Civil War were too fresh for many people.Barca_Nordic said:
Thanks for the lesson ! Very interesting indeed. I'm a bit surprised though, I remember from school the Franco regime used garrote and stuff against opponents which made me beleive that things glorifying that evil bast**** would be gone since long..... I'm also against church power of any kind, in this specific case I support Marx's ideas about opium for the people.Koeman4 said:Yes, there are several symbols of the Franquismo in some cities and towns. When the left dominated in the 80s, most of these symbols, names of streets, etc. disappeared and perhaps they left some, because the long Franco era was too near and the goal was not finishing with the last 40 years in one second, but doing a peaceful transition from the dictatorship to the democracy. The memories of the Civil War were too fresh for many people.
Then in the 90s the right took the power and they've never made an explicit condemn of Franco's era. In fact, the founder of PP is Manuel Fraga, ex-minister of Franco. Still Madrid is under the dominance of PP, so I guess that this statue won't disappear until the left goes back to the power in Madrid. In any case, that statue is attacked usually, one year ago a homosexual asociation painted that statue with pink colour.
IMO, beyond these statues there is something that comes from Franco's time which is not solved yet: the excessive power of the Catholic Church. I don't have anything against the Catholics, actually I admire the social job done by some of them, but the bishops are most of them members of Opus Dei, which is very conservative and sometimes anti-democratical, IMO.
Yes, Franco was an evil fascist, but, after his death, we had to choose:Barca_Nordic said:
Agree on that, but my objection was about keeping a statue outside a governmental agency. Maybe in a museum so the people shouldn't forget.Koeman4 said:
Maybe better in a militar museum... as I've said, we'll have to wait for a lefty mayor in Madrid, until then people still can use it as a Mexican Piñata.Barca_Nordic said:
Only 12% of catalans want independence!? Very suprisingKoeman4 said:
No, it's bigger, it must be around the 25%. This 12% is the people that think that independence is the priority right now. Take a look to the opinion of the voters of CiU, main nationalist pary. Most of them feel as Catalan as Spanish. IMO, I think that the 80% of the Catalans feel that we're a nation and most of these people would be happy if Spain recognized Catalunya as nation. All this with a highest grade of autonomy. The problem is that the main parties still deny that Catalunya is a nation and not only a region of Spain. The difference is that some people think that Spain is a nation and Catalunya a region, while others think that Spain is a union of nations and Catalunya is one of them. Of course, there's people that want the independence, but it's not a majority.PAO_ARSENAL said:
In that case, why don't he ask his boss for a tiny little miracle ?MxPx said:Member card #108.000
No, for me, Catalunya, País Valencià and Illes Balears are the same nation. In any case, I don't feel like a foreigner in Madrid either. IMO, there is too much ignorance about Catalunya in the rest of Spain. When I lived in Madrid, many people started with the stereotyped speech that they have, but if you're able to talk to them for 30 min. and you explain them the reasons of the nationalism, they understand it. Perhaps they don't agree with you, but they understand it. In any case, it happens in Catalunya too. Some Catalans prefer to ignore anything related with Spain and that's sad too.Robban said:
I don't think they care the language you talk while you talk to them in Spanish..Roger said:
