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Boys, help to fully establish a Catalan National Football Team:

Send an email to [email protected] containing the text:-

"Yes to the Catalan National Teams!"

I thank you.

Remember - Catalunya is not Spain!
 

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mincecfc said:
Boys, help to fully establish a Catalan National Football Team:

Send an email to [email protected] containing the text:-

"Yes to the Catalan National Teams!"

I thank you.

Remember - Catalunya is not Spain!
First of all, I'm totally in favour of the Catalan National Teams. I think that we're a nation and I think that we should have the right to compete in international competitions, in football or in any sport. I think that this feeling is shared by most of the Catalan people.

About the "Catalunya is not Spain" thing. Let me show you the results of a recent survey done in Catalunya by the Instituto Noxa for the prestigious Catalan newspaper "La Vanguardia", about the new Estatut Català.

Should the new Estatut consider the conditions required to be accepted by the Spanish parliament?
- Yes - 69%
- No - 26%

Which should the main objective of the new Estatut be?
- 28% - Guarantee the equality among the Spanish citizens
- 20% - Adapting the old Estatut of 1979 to the current reality
- 14% - Guarantee the economical autonomy of Catalunya
- 12% - Self-determination / Right to chose our independence

How do you feel?
- 48% - As Catalan as Spanish
- 15% - Only Catalan
- 9% - Only Spanish

The same question only among voters of nationalist parties
- CiU (right nationalists): Surprising results, IMO
54% - As Catalan as Spanish
25% - More Catalan than Spanish
14% - Only Catalan

-ERC (left independentists)
75% - Only Catalan / More Catalan than Spanish
25% - As Catalan as Spanish

Would you support a match between the Spanish NT and the Catalan NT?
- Yes - 54%
- No - 33%


http://ultimahora.iblnews.com/inoticia.php?id=682635&t=1
http://www.lavanguardia.es/public/web/51144568998.html

Now, take your own conclussions.

Personally, I'd like to have a Catalan NT (actually one including the whole nation, that is Catalunya, Illes Balears and País Valencià), but in my case, it is not necessarily out of Spain.
 

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Franco

Slightly off topic, but nevertheless. I read this very day that there still is statue of Franco outside some Environmental Government agency in Madrid ??
Is it really true ?? I know that things can be slow in Spain, but 30 years ???
 

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Barca_Nordic said:
Slightly off topic, but nevertheless. I read this very day that there still is statue of Franco outside some Environmental Government agency in Madrid ??
Is it really true ?? I know that things can be slow in Spain, but 30 years ???
Yes, there are several symbols of the Franquismo in some cities and towns. When the left dominated in the 80s, most of these symbols, names of streets, etc. disappeared and perhaps they left some, because the long Franco era was too near and the goal was not finishing with the last 40 years in one second, but doing a peaceful transition from the dictatorship to the democracy. The memories of the Civil War were too fresh for many people.

Then in the 90s the right took the power and they've never made an explicit condemn of Franco's era. In fact, the founder of PP is Manuel Fraga, ex-minister of Franco. Still Madrid is under the dominance of PP, so I guess that this statue won't disappear until the left goes back to the power in Madrid. In any case, that statue is attacked usually, one year ago a homosexual asociation painted that statue with pink colour. :D

IMO, beyond these statues there is something that comes from Franco's time which is not solved yet: the excessive power of the Catholic Church. I don't have anything against the Catholics, actually I admire the social job done by some of them, but the bishops are most of them members of Opus Dei, which is very conservative and sometimes anti-democratical, IMO.
 

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Koeman4 said:
Yes, there are several symbols of the Franquismo in some cities and towns. When the left dominated in the 80s, most of these symbols, names of streets, etc. disappeared and perhaps they left some, because the long Franco era was too near and the goal was not finishing with the last 40 years in one second, but doing a peaceful transition from the dictatorship to the democracy. The memories of the Civil War were too fresh for many people.

Then in the 90s the right took the power and they've never made an explicit condemn of Franco's era. In fact, the founder of PP is Manuel Fraga, ex-minister of Franco. Still Madrid is under the dominance of PP, so I guess that this statue won't disappear until the left goes back to the power in Madrid. In any case, that statue is attacked usually, one year ago a homosexual asociation painted that statue with pink colour. :D

IMO, beyond these statues there is something that comes from Franco's time which is not solved yet: the excessive power of the Catholic Church. I don't have anything against the Catholics, actually I admire the social job done by some of them, but the bishops are most of them members of Opus Dei, which is very conservative and sometimes anti-democratical, IMO.
Thanks for the lesson ! Very interesting indeed. I'm a bit surprised though, I remember from school the Franco regime used garrote and stuff against opponents which made me beleive that things glorifying that evil bast**** would be gone since long..... I'm also against church power of any kind, in this specific case I support Marx's ideas about opium for the people.
 

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Barca_Nordic said:
Thanks for the lesson ! Very interesting indeed. I'm a bit surprised though, I remember from school the Franco regime used garrote and stuff against opponents which made me beleive that things glorifying that evil bast**** would be gone since long..... I'm also against church power of any kind, in this specific case I support Marx's ideas about opium for the people.
Yes, Franco was an evil fascist, but, after his death, we had to choose:
a) Killing all the fascists, the bishops, the military, etc. and start a new Civil War
b) Trying to look to the future.

I think it's better to look forward, forgiven, but not forgotten. A Civil War is very painful, especially if you finish in the defeated side, as my family. In any case, after so much pain and frustration, who wants the revenge? More blood? The generation of my parents choose to make a country for everyone, instead of looking for revenge. I think that they took the right decision.
 

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Koeman4 said:
Yes, Franco was an evil fascist, but, after his death, we had to choose:
a) Killing all the fascists, the bishops, the military, etc. and start a new Civil War
b) Trying to look to the future.

I think it's better to look forward, forgiven, but not forgotten. A Civil War is very painful, especially if you finish in the defeated side, as my family. In any case, after so much pain and frustration, who wants the revenge? More blood? The generation of my parents choose to make a country for everyone, instead of looking for revenge. I think that they took the right decision.
Agree on that, but my objection was about keeping a statue outside a governmental agency. Maybe in a museum so the people shouldn't forget.

About the church, I read in a guidebook that the pope actually is a member of FCB !!!
 

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Member card #108.000 :cool:
 

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Barca_Nordic said:
Agree on that, but my objection was about keeping a statue outside a governmental agency. Maybe in a museum so the people shouldn't forget.

About the church, I read in a guidebook that the pope actually is a member of FCB !!!
Maybe better in a militar museum... as I've said, we'll have to wait for a lefty mayor in Madrid, until then people still can use it as a Mexican Piñata.

Yes, the Pope is socio, as MxPx said, although I think that Real Madrid gave him a membership card in their centenary... maybe he's member of half of the Italian and Spanish clubs.
 

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Koeman4 said:
Which should the main objective of the new Estatut be?

- 12% - Self-determination / Right to chose our independence
Only 12% of catalans want independence!? Very suprising
 

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PAO_ARSENAL said:
Only 12% of catalans want independence!? Very suprising
No, it's bigger, it must be around the 25%. This 12% is the people that think that independence is the priority right now. Take a look to the opinion of the voters of CiU, main nationalist pary. Most of them feel as Catalan as Spanish. IMO, I think that the 80% of the Catalans feel that we're a nation and most of these people would be happy if Spain recognized Catalunya as nation. All this with a highest grade of autonomy. The problem is that the main parties still deny that Catalunya is a nation and not only a region of Spain. The difference is that some people think that Spain is a nation and Catalunya a region, while others think that Spain is a union of nations and Catalunya is one of them. Of course, there's people that want the independence, but it's not a majority.
 

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Well, If Catalunia gets its indipendence would Barca, Espanyol, Terassa, Gramanet;) and other Catalunya clubs play in their own league?
 

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Koeman4 said:
No, it's bigger, it must be around the 25%. This 12% is the people that think that independence is the priority right now. Take a look to the opinion of the voters of CiU, main nationalist pary. Most of them feel as Catalan as Spanish. IMO, I think that the 80% of the Catalans feel that we're a nation and most of these people would be happy if Spain recognized Catalunya as nation. All this with a highest grade of autonomy. The problem is that the main parties still deny that Catalunya is a nation and not only a region of Spain. The difference is that some people think that Spain is a nation and Catalunya a region, while others think that Spain is a union of nations and Catalunya is one of them. Of course, there's people that want the independence, but it's not a majority.
So do you see your self as a person living abroad then?
 

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Robban said:
So do you see your self as a person living abroad then?
No, for me, Catalunya, País Valencià and Illes Balears are the same nation. In any case, I don't feel like a foreigner in Madrid either. IMO, there is too much ignorance about Catalunya in the rest of Spain. When I lived in Madrid, many people started with the stereotyped speech that they have, but if you're able to talk to them for 30 min. and you explain them the reasons of the nationalism, they understand it. Perhaps they don't agree with you, but they understand it. In any case, it happens in Catalunya too. Some Catalans prefer to ignore anything related with Spain and that's sad too.

IMO, we have to fight to be considered a nation, something that it is obvious in any aspect, except in the Spanish Consitution. Spain must be brave and accept the internal differences, Franco already died 30 years ago, but still there are stupid fears, as what has happened with the Roller Hockey NT. What is false is the unity that some pretend. When they forbid the NTs, they give power to the nationalists and that's something that PSOE and PP do not understand. The nationalism says: "Did you see? With Spain, we are nothing", and somehow they're right in this case. In any case, I don't like the use of the sport to political purposes, if there are other ways to express the ideas. I don't like to see the Catalan sportists responding the same question again and again: "What do you choose: Spain or Catalunya?". Carod was wrong asking for the boycott for Madrid 2012, I recall their support in 1992 and Carod is just messing, that's not good. With hatred, ERC must "win", but Catalunya will lose.

Sport has its own way and politics has another one, IMO.
 

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I'm not going to argue anyone's points here but I think this topic is getting more political than sporting. For that reason, I'd say this topic isn't exceptable even though knowone has argued or there hasn't been any bashing.
 

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Koeman4 I'm from Slovenia and I know exatcly what are you talking about.


And IMO, we are now independent and free country, so I keep my fingers crossed for you and for Euskadi too. Keep your faith! :heart:
 

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Well I'm with Carod Rovira all the way. Their behaviour the other day proved they're incapable of organising the Olympic Games. Just go to Madrid, get your mobile phone out and talk Catalan into it and see what happens. If you're in a taxi, you'll probably get thrown out.
 

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Roger said:
Well I'm with Carod Rovira all the way. Their behaviour the other day proved they're incapable of organising the Olympic Games. Just go to Madrid, get your mobile phone out and talk Catalan into it and see what happens. If you're in a taxi, you'll probably get thrown out.
I don't think they care the language you talk while you talk to them in Spanish..

There are a lot of Catalan people outside of Catalunya. I live outside of Catalunya and in 21 years I've never seen anything similar to what you've said.

Guys like Carod are who embarrass Catalunya. Thanks lord the great majority of the Catalans don't think like him.

Your hypothesis is product of the ignorance. There is a lot of ignorance in this question of nationalisms.
 
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