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Discussion Starter #1
I have been watching this guy with complete amazement this season. The guy was a rock in serie A. Now he is the worst defender in Madrid and this says much looking at the defenders they have. Madrid has leaked goals like crazy with this guys playing. Even Pavon looks good when put next to him. So I was wondering, why does this guy look so poor, so slow. Then it hit me. The guy can't handle La Liga.

In serie A the defenders are so protected its annoying. He had Dacourt, Emerson constantly sitting infront of him. You can't get that sort of treatment anywhere except serie A. The offence wasn't troubling him that much. One attack every 10 minutes will make even Cygan look good. In La Liga the guy is frequently attacked. From all angles. He can't handle that because honestly that does not happen in serie A.

Serie A defenders are not as good as people make them to be. Put Puyol in that sick madrid team and he will perform much better that Samuel. Put Nesta and that same Madrid team and he will turn into a Cygan.

This is not a go at Serie A and Samuel btw. Just a honest observation
 

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calcio100 said:
I have been watching this guy with complete amazement this season. The guy was a rock in serie A. Now he is the worst defender in Madrid and this says much looking at the defenders they have. Madrid has leaked goals like crazy with this guys playing. Even Pavon looks good when put next to him. So I was wondering, why does this guy look so poor, so slow. Then it hit me. The guy can't handle La Liga.

In serie A the defenders are so protected its annoying. He had Dacourt, Emerson constantly sitting infront of him. You can't get that sort of treatment anywhere except serie A. The offence wasn't troubling him that much. One attack every 10 minutes will make even Cygan look good. In La Liga the guy is frequently attacked. From all angles. He can't handle that because honestly that does not happen in serie A.

Serie A defenders are not as good as people make them to be. Put Puyol in that sick madrid team and he will perform much better that Samuel. Put Nesta and that same Madrid team and he will turn into a Cygan.

This is not a go at Serie A and Samuel btw. Just a honest observation

Serie A defenders are still the best - in Serie A imo. The playing style in Italy differs to that in Spain a lot and question is, if Samuel can adapt to it.
 

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Has Javi Moreno exposed La Liga forwards?
Has Mendieta exposed La Liga midfielders?
 

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AMOROSO! said:
Has Javi Moreno exposed La Liga forwards?
Has Mendieta exposed La Liga midfielders?
Has anyone ever claimed that Javi Moreno is the best forward in the world?
Did anyone ever claim that Mendieta is the best MF in the world?

Serie A and Argie fans were claiming that Samuel is one of the top 3 defenders in the world.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
AMOROSO! said:
How does this make the original point of your post valid?
A guy who was hailed as one of the best defenders in the world isn't that good. Infact he is below average. So, those slow serie A defenders are really not that good. Maldini was made a fool by some Korean parttimer in the wc.
 

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Samuel was very good in Argentina before joining Serie A and has played well for his country also. His ratings are not just from his Roma performances, so how do you explain that?

At Roma, he had emerson and dacourt among others, and he also played under capello, obviously a great coach. What does that have to do with anything? So if you play with a team and perform well, and then join another and play poorly, it suddenly means that league isnt as good? If that is the case, then there are a lot of leagues out there which make players look better than they really are.

Nesta, Maldini, Cannavaro, Thuram, Samuel, Zanetti, Zambrotta, Stam to name a few have all performed great for their domestic team and for their national teams in major tournaments...explain that?
 

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calcio100 said:
A guy who was hailed as one of the best defenders in the world isn't that good. Infact he is below average. So, those slow serie A defenders are really not that good. Maldini was made a fool by some Korean parttimer in the wc.
You are right, the defenders in serie A are slow, but we are lucky cause also the forwards are slow. I get bored whenever I see serie A cause it's too slow. I prefer to record it and then watch it at 10Xspeed. The game just lasts 9 minutes but in this way I don't fall asleep. :sleepy:
Maldini could hardly play in the K-league. The serie A teams suck and will never win anything, so the Italian NT. It's a matter of speed.
 

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calcio100 said:
A guy who was hailed as one of the best defenders in the world isn't that good. Infact he is below average. So, those slow serie A defenders are really not that good. Maldini was made a fool by some Korean parttimer in the wc.
I see, now it makes perfect sense.
 

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Samuel exposed himself. The truth is that I don't follow that much the Italian league and I only can value their defenders for their performances in Champions League. Anyway, some of you (the ones that visit the RM forum) know what I said about him before La Liga started. I said that it's not the same playing in 5 men defensive line in a Capello team, where everyone defends, than playing in Real Madrid, where you are much more exposed to the rivals.

Samuel is a very slow defender and he has suffered too much when he had to face fast strikers. Tamudo and Eto'o, among others have shown his lack of speed. It's too soon yet to value him at Real Madrid, but he is a total failure by now. He also has to get used to the Spanish referees, he is a hard player, he tackles too much and the Spanish refs easily show yellow cards, compared to Italy or England. He was sent off in Montjuic and he should have been red carded against Barça for his agression to Damià.

For a defender, it's much more difficult to play in an attacking team as Real Madrid than in a Capello ultra defensive team. I can't say that he's a bad defender, but maybe he's not the kind of defender that Madrid needed.
 

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AMOROSO! said:
Has Javi Moreno exposed La Liga forwards?
Has Mendieta exposed La Liga midfielders?
Actually, what has happened to Samuel, Mendieta, Javi Moreno, Fiore, Corradi, Helguera or Jose Mari shows that the styles are very different. It happened also in the past, Laudrup failed in Italy and he succeed in Spain.
 

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Koeman4, I know. I merely pointed out that Samuel's mediocre adjustment to La Liga certainly does not make all Serie A defenders useless, like the idiot who started this thread claimed.
 

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I think its not about liga-serieA styles of play.

Its about this Coach in RM. He has responsibilities firstly. The players he selects etc. And also the team that plays with Samuel. Seldom I hear RCarlos getting a mix up with Cassilas... And more so, Barca winning 3 : 0. Its a team thing.. and coach comes first.
 

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Koeman4 said:
For a defender, it's much more difficult to play in an attacking team as Real Madrid than in a Capello ultra defensive team. I can't say that he's a bad defender, but maybe he's not the kind of defender that Madrid needed.
I agree with that. Different style of playing is one of the problem. So, we cannot say directly that a player who succeeds with one club, will automatically succeed with another club. There is no guarantee.

Look at Thierry Henry. It is said that he failed at Juventus, but he succeed at Arsenal. Edgar Davids is another example. He failed at Milan, but succeed at Juventus.

However, I am not sure where the problem is. It could be caused by different style of playing, or how the player itself is dealing with the new system.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
dian said:
However, I am not sure where the problem is. It could be caused by different style of playing, or how the player itself is dealing with the new system.
Even I will look like a quality defender if you put Emerson, Dacourt infront of me. Then the coach gives them orders never to cross the half-way line. On top of that only three quality strikers (Trezegol, Sheva, Adriano) in the whole league can trouble me and they come at a frequency of 1 attack every 20 minutes. This is how bad serie A is.
 
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