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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #1
Guys, do you believe Cafu has surpassed the legendary Capitan del Tri?

What are your thoughts?!!!
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #3
Rei Volante said:
I think so, but I did not see much of CAT One can't argue with 132 caps and guy who knows no linmits when he plays.

This is what I don't get, Brazilians consider Djalma Santos as the best RB of all-time, but the rest of the world considers Carlos Alberto the best RB ever.

so if we agree, that Cafu has surpassed CAT, so what does this mean? Cafu > Djalma Santos and Carlos Alberto?
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #6
Well, I am 'only' in my mid-forties, so have not been around for ever.
:D :D :D!
 

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Cafu has not surpassed Carlos Alberto if we are talking about who was the better player. Cafu stats are better, but C.A.Torres was better.

Talent
1. Djalma Santos
2. Carlos Alberto Torres
3. Leandro
4. Jorginho
5. Cafu

Career achievements.
1. Cafu (2 wc's in three finals in a row and every other title you can imagine)
2. Djalma Santos (2 wcs)
3. C.A.Torres (1 wc)
4. Jorginho (1 wc)
5. Leandro
 

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This is what I don't get, Brazilians consider Djalma Santos as the best RB of all-time, but the rest of the world considers Carlos Alberto the best RB ever.
My friend Dagoods, haven't you learnt visiting us all this time ? We brazilian understand better footbal than the rest of the world :D
Seriously, Carlos Alberto is indeed more famous, not only played for Santos but he is a member of 1970 team, which is the greatest propaganda one can get. They also consider the 70 team better, but mostly for not knowing much about the football here before. after all the 58 is much (but really much) superior individual wise.
You just have to think, Carlos and Djalma played together in the half of 60's and Carlos never got a shot because no matter how good he was not able to make Djalma go away. (This argument have a dowside named Di Sordi, but well...)
Cafu was result is a top. As a player he still a little behind Carlos and years behind Djalma.
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #9
My friend Dagoods, haven't you learnt visiting us all this time ? We brazilian understand better footbal than the rest of the world
I'm surprised Fangio has not replied to this statement :D

They also consider the 70 team better, but mostly for not knowing much about the football here before. after all the 58 is much (but really much) superior individual wise.
Defensively wise the 58 team was better - but the 1970 was stronger at attacking.

You just have to think, Carlos and Djalma played together in the half of 60's and Carlos never got a shot because no matter how good he was not able to make Djalma go away. (This argument have a dowside named Di Sordi, but well...)
Cafu was result is a top. As a player he still a little behind Carlos and years behind Djalma.
Now, that's what I was looking for :D Thanks JC!
 

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Defensively wise the 58 team was better - but the 1970 was stronger at attacking.
Even if you do not consider having Vava and Didi helping in the attack there is Garrincha. Garrincha + Pele = Ratings, Dreams and Superpowers!!! :D
Fangio must be busy or afraid to to mess him his Caesar (Me :) )
 

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cafu is one of the best brazilians players ever..
he starts as a hot prospect and his kind of playing is improving day by day tactically and physically although he is 35 now!!!!
such kind of player is really very rare to find :D
i love cafu :smileani:
 

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Cachorro
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brasileiro said:
Pele and Garrincha never lost a game playing together . 56 games for Brasil, 51 wins and 5 draws. Brasil 58 > Brasil 70.
I agree completely.

Carlos Alberto Torres was superior to Cafu technically, but Cafu's resumé is much more impressive (hell, he hasn't even retired yet, and it's more than likely that he'll collect some more trophies before he hangs up his shoes). :eek: Like Djalma Santos, Cafu won his 1st WC by playing only the final and the 2nd as an unquestionable starter. De Sordi was the original starter in 1958, just as Jorginho was our rightback during most of the '94 WC.

Between Djalma Santos and Carlos Alberto... Djalma was a defensive monster, a pure fullback with pinpoint tackling, while Nilton Santos revolutionized the position on the left side by creating the wingback. When Carlos Alberto began his career in the 60s, fullbacks and young players all over the world were already following Nilton's footsteps, and Torres was no exception. So CA was a more attacking rightback than Djalma, and maybe even a more complete player overall. I think the question of which of them was better is totally subjective, but I can't help but feel that Torres offered more to the team than Djalma.
 

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Djalma had other things to impress, in his 20 years of carrer he never got a card, he never got sent off, never got a referee telling him to leave (which happened before the cards with very violent players), absolute clean player and yet perfect. But other thing: Skiled as hell, his ball control was amazing, in the level of Pele or Didi. He could be seen stealing the ball from the defenders with sequence of lobs, or holding the ball in the air without letting it touch the ground to carry the ball away from the defense. There was a great danger, any wing trying to be "funny" with him could see his tricks turned back with class. He was a typical unlikeness of the 58 team.
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #16
Yes, the 58 team was better defensively but the 1970 team had more fire power!

RIVELINO (one of my all-time favorites 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 X better than Ronalindho).

Clodoaldo (another one of my favorites) - One of the most underrated players ever.

Gerson, Tostao, Jairnzinho (okay we all know he was not better than Garrincha)

and O Rei.

Gerson, Rivelino, Tostao, Jairzinho I'll take them over Vava, Zagallo, etc.
I don't know perhaps I'm being biased :D
 

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But you have to take:

Garrincha over Jairzinho ? Of course
Didi over Gerson ? Of course
Zito over Clodoaldo ? Of course (and Clodoaldo would turn in your Lex Luthor if you try to imply Zito was not better than him, you know, Zito was his teacher after all)
Pele over Pele ? No...
vava over Tostao? Sure, Tostao is a more gifted player but as center-foward Vava was more complete. Since we have garrincha, then you need a center-foward, so Vava.
Rivelino over Zagallo ? Sure.
And you see ,the team would end: Zito, Didi, Garrincha, Pele,Vava and Rivelino. 58 more firepower.
Plus you know, Garrincha and Pele together are the Justice League!
 

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Cachorro
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Garrincha and Pele upfront, with Didi distributing the ball. That's firepower. ;)
 

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That is like Batman leading Superman and Green Lantern to attack...

not to mention something: The Bench of 1958 had players that would challenge seriously for a starting spot in 1970: Mauro, Zozimo, Castilho, Dino Sani, Moacir, Dida, Mazolla and Pepe. And some players left behind: Henrique, Quarentinha, Evaristo, Julinho Botelho, Jair da Rosa, Canhoteiro and even Zizinho.
Only the list of the Greek Gods could be more Divine and epic than this list.
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #20
Garrincha over Jairzinho ? Of course
Didi over Gerson ? Of course
Zito over Clodoaldo ? Of course (and Clodoaldo would turn in your Lex Luthor if you try to imply Zito was not better than him, you know, Zito was his teacher after all)
Pele over Pele ? No...
vava over Tostao? Sure, Tostao is a more gifted player but as center-foward Vava was more complete. Since we have garrincha, then you need a center-foward, so Vava.
Rivelino over Zagallo ? Sure.
And you see ,the team would end: Zito, Didi, Garrincha, Pele,Vava and Rivelino. 58 more firepower.
Plus you know, Garrincha and Pele together are the Justice League!
Garrincha over Jairzinho? Garrincha, no doubt!
Zito < Clodoaldo? Clodoaldo all the way!
Vava < Tostao? Tostao by far!
Didi > Gerson
Rivelino > Zagallo

Garrincha and Pele together were sublime. but you must keep in mind, the only reason why the 1958 team were able to deliver dagoods, is simply because of the inclusion of a young 17 year old kid ;). WIthout his goals, Brazil migh of gone home empty handed. Didi and Garrincha were great, but Garrincha didn't score any goals. Sure he created many goal opportunities for Pele and Vava but again if you were to take Pele out of the equation the 1970 team would be better "offensively"!
 
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