Xtratime Community banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,734 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
NEW THREAD FOR TOMMOROW!

YALLA! YALLA YALLA! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,771 Posts
Tommorow our future in the group will be decided. A tough game against Greece in Crete. We had a sample of it 4 days ago in Ramat Gan, in which many defined as failure and in the air the feeling that with a bit more daring we could have won.

Both coaches held press conference today, Kashtan is visably under pressure, but in his speech he remains calm and says he is confident and believes Israel could win (we could, if he was a bit more wise in fielding up the players). The Israeli press made questions about his future in case of a defeat and the veteran coach answered that his contract is until July 2010 and that he has more business to deal with.

Rehagel, said that Israel is a dangeous team with a talented attack and that Greece should be aware. But on the other hand sounded very optimistic and by his expression looks certain on a Greek victory. The fans are also very confident.

Kostas Katsouranis returns from suspension and is expected to return in the starting lineup. Basinas or Tziolis are expected to give place for the Benfica midfielder. There is a possibility of a very offensive Greece fielding a 4-3-3 formation, which Charisteas and Gekas would be joined by Samaras, who entered the second half in Ramat Gan.

Israel still hopes for a return of Yossi Benayoun who picked up injury in the 77th minute in Ramat Gan and many fear that he will be ruled out of the game. Our vital player in midfield Gal Alberman was felt an injury, but apparently will be fit.

The starting lineups will be probably the same from the first match. Kashtan needs to be smarter on his starting lineup and field a fast team to play on counter attacks. Shechter and Itzhaki playing alongside Ben Sahar would be very dangerous for the Greeks. Baruchyan in center midfield together with Alberman would even give us more possesion and a bit of space for Benayoun to create his tricks.

Good Luck Israel!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
Benayoun will be on the bench... :rollani:

The line-up has been set... 5 Defenders, 2 Midfielders, and 3 Strikers... Simply mind-boggling... I know Ziv can play on the left wing, but this is ridiculous!

The full line-up: D. Aouate; K.Saban, T. Ben-Haim, D. Keinan, D. Ben-Dayan, Y. Ziv; G. Alberman, B. Kiyal; I. Shechter, O. Golan, B. Sahar

We had a good run... :cry: I expect a new coach by the time we play our friendly match in N. Ireland in August... :hopeful:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
Why the hell did Dror sent Ben Sahar to the bench for Yossi? He should play for 90 mins. Kayal is a shit player. Fu(k him!

Ben Sahar and Yossi Benayoun should have played 90 mins. Israel could have tie this game.

Israel should have won the game against Latvia and in home against Greece.
Why do Israel like to miss the chance?!?!


Fire Kashtan!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,771 Posts
Well, guys i am still with my head a bit hot from this match, so maybe i will be writing some nonsense and radical things.

We come to a match in which we need to win, or in the worst of cases a draw. Kashtan can´t count with our main player to play 90 minutes so he benches him. Then all of the sudden he starts with Yoav Ziv in midfield to be the left winger. Alberman our reference in midifield in safe, but he places Kiyal? Meaning that two players that aren´t unanimous even at their clubs much less in the NT, are expected to lead the NT to surprise victory in Crete???:mad:
Baruchyan and Vermouth two creative midfielders and who are having a great season aren´t even in the bench!!! We don´t have options for offensive midfield in this case!!!!:mad:

Shechter was a good call, but bad positioned and not supported at all. How could he produce something in midfield (playmaking is not exactly his best, he needs to play more as a forward or winger), if he has three defensive midfielders? Golan and Sahar as strikers was the only good call from the starting 11.

1-0 Greece at halftime. Benayoun comes in. Some hope for at least a glimpse of brilliance in our display. But wait, where is Sahar?? The best Israeli player in Ramat Gan, the best finisher, the one who could dribble the strong Greek defenders is sacked??? Why can´t Benayoun and Sahar play togehter??

Barda who came in the place of Ziv (who wasn´t suppose to start, since he is playing for some seasons already as a left back and having in the squad Baruchyan and Vermouth to play that position) in the 40th minute, shot the ball that deflected in Golan and equalized the game.
From nowhere we found a result.

Kiyal brought down Torosidis in the penalty box and Samaras scored the winner for Greece.
From then on we couldn´t do much against Greece. Iztahki still came in, but 15 minutes weren´t enough to create something concrete.

Now the group stands with:

Greece 13 points
Switzerland 13 points
Latvia 10 points
Israel 9 points

Latvia entered the fight aswell. Our next game will be in Ramat Gan against them and promises to be tough. The Swiss hosts Greece.

We still have chances, but for a first place spot i believe they are slim. Maybe we will have to dream and fight for a play off berth.

Don´t want to sound pessimistic, but the story is repeating itself.

Kashtan should be replaced. No way we could continue this way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,734 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I am back from the game....
I dont know what to say....
How can we have it all and then lose out so pathetically? Do we like to be floppy in our game?


I went to see the game live in Greek town. Needless to say, the Greek fans werent very welcoming. I never knew they call Israelis "The Filthy Jews" and constantly talk about how Jews ruin the economy and cheered the FREE PALESTINE banner once it came up...

anyways....we played poorly and thats that....
Shahar should have stayed. I was happy that Benayoun got some play and he was brilliant, but Shahar did so well and it was dumb to let him go. Kiyal was garbage....

Im heartbroken.
I lost my confidence in Israel. I seriously do. We cannot beat anyone. We over estimate ourselves as the top 20 of the world yet...we cant beat Luxembourg... We SUCK PEOPLE! im sorry...our soccer, our leauge, our skinny ass 5'8 players suck! Please...stop assuming they are good? For who? To perhaps make it to the World Cup? Only to lose 8-0 to say Denmark? Please..id rather not make it at all....

If you gave Israel a group like Faroe Islands, San Marion, Andorra, Estonia and Belarus...id promise you we'd still fight for 2nd....
WE SUCK!!


Im going to [email protected] my Greek food now....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,697 Posts
Back from the Greek bar in town (there is no Israeli one, so I had no other choice than again join the Greek bar) but unlike you experienced, I was welcomed. I was honest that I am Israel fan but nobody minded and we all sat together watching the game, there was just a friendly atmosphere and all Greek fans were very friendly despite me being the only Israel fan in the bar.

So far the good news. The game itself though... :doh:

I spared my critics for Kashtan so far but this time he ruined it. Seriously. The starting line up was not that good and you clearly saw that Israel suffered as soon as the Greeks attacked. There was maybe 50-50 in terms of posession, but Israel never caused any danger while the Greeks used their posession for actual chances. The lead at HT was deserved and then we are lucky that Greece didn't get a penalty shortly after the 1-0 was scored.

I was screaming hurray when Benayoun came on. But then, why the f**k replacing Sahar?? Kashtan made the most ridiculous change there, if you are 1-0 behind and decide to bring in your best player (despite mild injury), then why the heck take off your second best player?? This was totally ridiculous.

But anyway, once Benayoun was on Israel got better into the game, you could see that even when not 100% fit Benayoun made the play better structured. After the 1-1 I felt Israel even became the better team and starting to slowly cause mild panic in the Greek defense. The penalty killed the moral of the team, you just saw confidence was lost and in despair the long ball was constantly used which never caused a lot of danger (why always that long ball?? The Greeks were more dangerous despite having not more posession, but they at least combined and made well structured attacks)

And why bring in Itzhaki only so late? He should have come on right after the penalty. After all, a loss was not acceptable here and when 2-1 down at that point of the game a coach must dare to take risks. After taking Sahar off, waiting so long to bring in Itzhaki was a serious mistake as well IMO. Imagine Sahar and Benayoun together on the pitch, and Itzhaki getting more minutes, that would have made a difference for sure and would cause much more danger to the Greek defense. Now it were just long balls with Benayoun as only really creative player. The 2-2 was never close, on the contrary Dudu Aouate had to make a great interception to avoid a 3rd Greek goal.

I guess we must be realistic. Greece and Switzerland will now face each other but even the loser of that game will still be 1 point ahead of Israel even should Israel beat Latvia. The best we can maybe hope for is a Greek win and beating Switzerland ourself, that way we close in on Switzerland and leave Latvia behind. If the team can then shock by winning in Switzerland we'd at least have the playoff ticket. But then winning in Switzerland ?? I guess it becomes a lot of "if" and "if"s to still qualify.

And yes I am running out of patience now also. Fire Kashtan. His choices to take off Sahar (and to less extent to delay in putting Itzhaki on) were simply ridiculous.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,734 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Its not just Kashtan, its not just the IFA idiots who made a game in Crete where Greek nationalism runs hire than in Athens, Its not just the way we shut our stupid mouthes when they chose the schedule and we got the worst picks, its not just the fact that we dont have any consistancy...

its the fact that we cant really produce a result.
Since our first game we were sloppy.. Sloppy against Luxemborg, Sloppy with Lativa and Moldova...mind you Moldova was up 1-0 and had good chances to come back and beat us.....

Yes; we can beat Switzerland..
but why not play the both of them early on.....
Its mentality too! We were out of it...and clearly so were the teams we played.....
When Switzerland and Greece came back from EURO 08 that was when we should have played them...but noooooooo we go and play them in the middle of the tournament..end of the tournament...so now we have to have a do or die matchup...
thats pathetic...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,767 Posts
I am back from the game....

I went to see the game live in Greek town. Needless to say, the Greek fans werent very welcoming. I never knew they call Israelis "The Filthy Jews" and constantly talk about how Jews ruin the economy and cheered the FREE PALESTINE banner once it came up...
Please understand that the Danforth 'element' is amongst the worst in our community. Like Woodbridge Italians to some extent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,734 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Please understand that the Danforth 'element' is amongst the worst in our community. Like Woodbridge Italians to some extent.
check pm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,697 Posts
Please understand that the Danforth 'element' is amongst the worst in our community. Like Woodbridge Italians to some extent.
:confused:



Kappa, you are spot on, the schedule is too easy to blame on. Those who deserve the world cup tickets are those who can handle pressure such as performing whenever it is needed to, even if the though games come at a crucial moment. By the way, right before the maybe decisive game in Switzerland there are 3 home games in a row (+ there was a 7 points out of 9 in the three-in-a-row away) so we should not blame it on the match schedule whatsoever. In Latvia it was bad luck with the shot on the crossbar right before they equalise, at home against Greece we can maybe talk of bad luck as well as Itzhaki could have easily scored the winner (and then the pressure was all on Greek shoulders yesterday and would have been a different game alltogether). Yesterday I'd say Kashtan was partially to blame for sure. The only excuse he has yesterday was Benayoun being half injured (even when half injured, you saw early in the 2nd half the midfield functioned better, so I do believe it would have made a difference if he played the entire game)

Question now: is it wise to fire Kashtan now, in the middle of the competition? A new coach who hasn't worked with the players yet, and to whose approach the players would need to get used to ... Is it wise to do that now? A change of coach is always easier when you got some time to let players and coach adapt to each other, rather than when the next game is a crucial competitive one. Of course replacing the coach now could be the shock effect. It would be a huge gamble though to replace him now.

Let's do some calculating: imagine Greece wins in Switzerland next, and meanwhile Israel beats Latvia in Ramat Gan. Then Israel leapfrogs over the Swiss and the Latvians and becomes second. Home games against Moldova and Luxembourg should in theory be no problem. So with this scenario in mind, winning all remaining games (or even winning the remaining home games and a tie in Switzerland) should normally bring us at least the second spot and the play-offs. So let's not abandon all hopes of the World Cup yet. A play off can be a hard game against the likes of Bosnia, Russia or so, but it could just as well be against Scotland or Bulgaria or Ireland where Israel would at least have 50% chance of qualifying.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,734 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Greek town in Toronto...
Just where the center of the city ....west.
I think old time Greeks still live there. Like grandparents and stuff. The kids moved all over the place..Mississauga and especially in Scarborough, you find a lot of Greeks.




Kappa, you are spot on, the schedule is too easy to blame on. Those who deserve the world cup tickets are those who can handle pressure such as performing whenever it is needed to, even if the though games come at a crucial moment. By the way, right before the maybe decisive game in Switzerland there are 3 home games in a row (+ there was a 7 points out of 9 in the three-in-a-row away) so we should not blame it on the match schedule whatsoever. In Latvia it was bad luck with the shot on the crossbar right before they equalise, at home against Greece we can maybe talk of bad luck as well as Itzhaki could have easily scored the winner (and then the pressure was all on Greek shoulders yesterday and would have been a different game alltogether). Yesterday I'd say Kashtan was partially to blame for sure. The only excuse he has yesterday was Benayoun being half injured (even when half injured, you saw early in the 2nd half the midfield functioned better, so I do believe it would have made a difference if he played the entire game)
Bad schedule can be blamed yea..i agree..
but also the fact that Greece was the better team here and we always try to overestimate ourselves....
We seem to be satisfied with ties. Its something that we can do, but somehow we are in a field of our own..its just that we can never pass that field and go over the fence/wall. We are always stuck with points..points that never get us anywhere.

Latvia game was bad..
but also you dont know what can happen sooner or later. Latvia may tie Switzerland or Moldova might suprise Greece. That can happen and for all we know we may have a chance at it again.
But what does suck is the fact that Switzerland lost to Luxembourg. Greece lost to Switzerland and we were on a high and potentially having a chance to come first. I'd rather have 2 ties than a a loss and a tie that we had over Greece...We could have done better...and the sheer that the next game will be next September will mean that our players come back from the summer, out of shape and play September 5th again...
I can tell you that regardless..they usually fork out ties in September.

Question now: is it wise to fire Kashtan now, in the middle of the competition? A new coach who hasn't worked with the players yet, and to whose approach the players would need to get used to ... Is it wise to do that now? A change of coach is always easier when you got some time to let players and coach adapt to each other, rather than when the next game is a crucial competitive one. Of course replacing the coach now could be the shock effect. It would be a huge gamble though to replace him now.
It is a bad decision because you have a team that can do really good and brining someone in can harm the team and especially benayoun who worked well with Kashtan.

Kashtan may go..im not saying he wont...
but the matter is that you cant bring someone in between now and September....who will be good?
I think we need to raise our level and bring in a foreign coach..someone who can scout our league and make our players better. Kashtan is amazing for our leauge, but he hasnt shown much favour in the national team....

So the only option we have right now is:
1) Keep Kashtan until the end of the qualifiers - and then act politically and say he resigned but he really had a close door meeting about his fate....

2) Hire Grant - who is known in the NT and who did an amazing run for us, though like I said...when times got tough and we played France, Ireland and so forth..we came away with a tie...being the better team, whereas in Greece we were not better and we aimed for a tie, but lost it in the end...

3) Hire Itzhak Shum - a long run, but if Kashtan goes now or in the end of the run than Shum should be one of the candidates. He did amazing job with Beitae and also the Greek side and if we had known Greece was in our group, we would have taken Shum since he has some knowledge of Hellenic soccer from his championship days with Panathanikos.

4) Hire a foreign coach - that would be a long shot..but the question is who? and how? and at what cost?
Clearly there are some high level candidates who can take the role as Israel made a name for itself and he needs to break the ice and get us in the promise land.... Can he? that is the question? :)
Who can we get? Matthaus? He has knowledge in Israeli soccer and has been a NT coach for the Magyars?
Kevin Keegan? Koemann?

Let's do some calculating: imagine Greece wins in Switzerland next, and meanwhile Israel beats Latvia in Ramat Gan. Then Israel leapfrogs over the Swiss and the Latvians and becomes second. Home games against Moldova and Luxembourg should in theory be no problem. So with this scenario in mind, winning all remaining games (or even winning the remaining home games and a tie in Switzerland) should normally bring us at least the second spot and the play-offs. So let's not abandon all hopes of the World Cup yet. A play off can be a hard game against the likes of Bosnia, Russia or so, but it could just as well be against Scotland or Bulgaria or Ireland where Israel would at least have 50% chance of qualifying.
Playoff is more like playing Sweden or Portugal rather than Bosnia and Russia.
We have beaten Bosnia before...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,655 Posts
We need a coach that can teach, not just be able to put a team together, I could do that :howler: , Our players need to be motivated with a winning attitude and they need to learn how to play as a team, with good passing, playing in the attacking third, being able to have possession, and have a high work rate. We seem to be able to do all of those things but they are done inconsistently, which I think is why we have higher expectations.

I think we should wait to fire Kashtan till the end. Israel will definitely be able to attract a good foreign coach because of our potential.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,734 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Which foreign coach do you think will come to Israel?
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top