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Discussion Starter #1
I consider you the most objective Juve fan (and eringi until the last topic,no offence) and I want you to tell me:

Should Cannavaro's goal be dissallowed?

I dont want an analysis,I watched the game and I have my own opinion,I just want you to tell me,yes or no.

Please be as objective as you always are.


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Glen what happened with ronaldo 2 years ago?

Im very dissapointed about the decision howver i hope juve draw next week and we have a playoff with an english ref!!!!!!!

FORZA LAZIO!
 

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I can't give You what You want AMO.

For me it's a case of 'no' AND 'yes'.

When I saw it I went: "Man we really caught a break on that one." It didn't seem like a foul to me, and I could not have objected if the goal had stood (I would have said You got lucky with a draw again, but nothing else :)).

Now the goal was cancelled, and the only thing I can rely on for a 'yes' is that the ref. blew his whistle before Cannavaro got his head to the ball.
On countless occasions we see this happen when there's a scramble in the area on corners or freekicks, and most of the time there is no attempt on goal afterwards. We all sit back and say: "Why do they always protect the goalies this much or ?"-or- "for what ?" But it happens all the time.
This time around it was a massively important game for both teams- and Lazio ofcourse, and THIS time there was actually a goal scored.
To me it's not a question of the goal should have been cancelled- it's a question of there was a legitimate infringement call. I can't say that there was. I didn't get a good angle on the Kovacevic thing, but since the ref. whistled before the goal, I don't even think about it as a goal.
To me it's like a player being called off-side and scores anyway after the ref. whistles, if You know what I mean.
Had the ref. called the infringement AFTER the goal I would have screamed blue murder (if I had been a Parma or Lazio fan), but he didn't.

So in consequence I think the ref. quite possibly made a mistake on his free kick decision, but I don't think he ruled out a legitimate goal, because he made the mistake before the goal was scored.

That is my honest opinion, but with all the emotions we've got going on I don't blame especially Lazialis for their reactions. Dubious call does seem to benefit Juve when it comes down to the final stretch, but today was nothing like the Ronaldo thing two years back. This was possibly an error, but when he reacted (he did so swiftly) he had no way of knowing how influential his decision was going to be.
Lucky- yes, but as far as I'm concerned You (not "You" but generally) can save the 'ladri' stuff for a better occasion.

Ciao.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Conclusion: should the goal count?

YES or NO? please dont start analysing.I just want you to stund up and say your opinion,fair and square.PLEASE.

If it was at your hand to take the decision now,after watching a hundred replays.Would you count the goal?

(Cannavaro said that the ref blowned at the time he got his head to the ball)



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AMO my last topic was very emotional i know...and i think it is because wherever i was reading it was all about Juve being robbers and stuff...so you know the feeling...i just wanted to get it out...
anyway about the goal i think that it should have been disallowed for the fact that the whistle had already been blown...as for whether it was right to blow the whistle or not...well we can argue about continuously but if that is the answer you want coz that is even what led to the goal being disallowed...i really don't know whether to say yes or no.

take care AMO and good luck in your next game
 
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Why can´t you give the man a straight yes or no?
Should Cannavaro's goal be dissallowed?

Just write one word in your post, yes or no... :)

FORZA LAZIO
 

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I don't understand why you wan't more. Anything else I write will only be additions to my initial reply.
But I can try in another way.
HAD I BEEN THE REF. THE GAME WOULD HAVE ENDED 1-1.
Is that more clear ? I only wanted to underline that the referee did not rob Parma of a goal today. He gave a freekick to Juve which he propably shouldn't have and incidently this situation wound up with the ball in the net. Everyone says he cancelled a goal. He didn't, but having spent some time at the Lazio forum, I can see that they at least are completely oblivious to that.

We were tremendously lucky, but this is not scandal material.

Ciao.
 

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Exactly Glen that is what should people look at, the referee did not disallow Parma's goals as he blew the whistle before, so there is no question of whether the goal should have been disallowed at all

as for whether he should have blown the whistle...as i said earlier me i cannot give a YES or a NO!!!
 
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Should the Cannavaro's goal been disallowed? No! Why, because there was no goal to disallow. It never happened. The call was made. It was clear that the referee was bringing the whistle to his mouth as Cannavaro was about to head the ball. So there is no answer to this question.

I have watched the replays repeatedly on La Domenica Sportiva. What did the referee see? A couple of things. First, he saw Kovacevik get tripped by Cannavaro. To me, it was an inadvertent play as Fabio was moving in one direction while Darko moving in another. It was not intentional but it happened and as Glen pointed out earlier, these calls are made all of the time. This is not criminal law where there is need to have the intent of malice to make a call. If the referee saw a trip, then he makes his call. There was also Crespo charging through the area, leaping towards the ball himself and in the process, screening Ferrara out of the play. From his angle, it may have been significant enough to call. My guess is that the referee called the Darko trip.

As for all this whining from the Lazio bunch, from its crybaby owner to its tifosi. Get over it. The early play with Marchegianni could have resulted not only in a PK against Lazio but also the expulsion of Marchegianni. But the referee did not see it that way. Another ref may have. That is part of the game. IMO, I think Cragnotti is trying to set up the referees to make some calls against Juve or not give them the benefit of the doubt. It happened just a few months ago. There was all this talk of how Juve had no PK's called against it. Right after, there were about 3 PK's awarded against Juve in its next few matches. Hopefully, the referee next week will ignore these mind games.
 

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I AM A JUVENTUS FAN THROUGH AND THROUGH!
JUVE JUVE JUVE JUVE.
I could not sleep lastnite before the game.
I am constantly defending my club from all sorts of viscious attacks by fans of all other Italian teams.
I have heard Juve being called the Mafia side and all that crap.
I have always fought for the honour of my team. This because i believe these accusations are part of the collective ignoramus mob. However the incident today................................................I have no idea. i have replayed and replayed the corner kick. I see nothing that could have been called an infringement.
Juve 1 - Parma 1.
But anyway i am glad for my team.
 

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Amo, from the viewpoint of football, I would say no, as the ref did indeed blow his whistle before Cannavaro got his head to the ball, although I felt there was little wrong in the penalty area and there shouldn't have been a foul called. However, the referees are prone to making mistakes, and Juventus had their share of terrible judgements before (such as against Lazio when the ref wanted Del Piero to dribble pass four defenders on an "advantage play") and you can't really blame them.

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Although no one asked me, here's what I saw and here's what I think:

I try to keep seperate in my mind two situations: the first is where the referee is biased (perhaps bribed) and the second is where he has acted in good faith but made a mistake.

I should explain that I listened to the game on radio in the morning my time, but later saw it (and taped it) on TV. I have watched the disallowed goal at least 25 times tonight.

I believe that the first time you hear the referee's whistle is AFTER the ball has been kicked by Amoroso (the corner kick) but BEFORE it has been headed by Cannavero (and definitely before it has gone into the net). At that point the ball is dead and the play is over. There should be no goal, regardless of whether the referee was correct in blowing the whistle (about which more in a minute). In fact, several players on both sides noticeably relax before the ball goes into the net, including van der Sar. I repeat: there should be no goal. The play is dead the instant the whistle is blown, whatever the reason.

Now, having said that, I want to add quickly that there was no foul - the referee should not have blown his whistle. This was a bad call, raising questions about the quality (but in this case anyway, not the honesty) of the referees in Serie A.

I say that because there is no way the referee could have known when he blew his whistle that the ball was going to end up in the net. It would be a very different situation to me if he blew his whistle after the ball was in the net. But that is not what happened - at least not what I see on the tape. We are dealing with an honest mistake, not a dishonest or bribed referee.

I have read the posts made about this incident. Many people on both sides (actually three: Juventus, Lazio, and Parma)have said things that I hope they didn't mean. I am particularly disturbed, however, by some Juventini who seem to want to tease the Laziali about this incident. In my opinion that is completely inappropriate under the circumstances. This is not even a situation for friendly teasing. Emotions are understandably too high.

So... I believe that the correct final score is Juventus 1 Parma 0.

However, I love Serie A football even more than I love Juventus (which is a lot). If Juventus ends up winning the scudetto by two points (and this season is not yet over, not by a long shot - I can easily see Juventus drawing on the road against Perugia, while Lazio wins at home against Reggina), I would HATE for this season to become known as the season when the referees "gave the scudetto to Juventus" [although remember, friends, that in the crucial match in Torino, the referees gave Ferrara a red card, leading to a crucial Lazio victory over Juventus - at least THAT referee clearly was not biased in favor of Juventus].

And so for good of the sport itself, for the first time in my life I hope that my beloved Juventus draws next week instead of wins; Lazio wins; the two teams end up tied at 72 points; and the League decides on a one game playoff [the guys on both teams are just too tired for a home-and-away series]. Then PLEASE let one team - hopefully Juventus - win it convincingly.

I fully expect to get replies from both sets of fans disagreeing with me, to say the least. So be it.

With respect,

Zen9
 

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The ref blew the whistle after Cannavaro headed the ball!!!!!!!!!!
Get your ****ing facts straight!!!!!!
LAADDDDDDDRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!

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The following came directly from the official Parma site. If anyone knows about the sequence of events, it is Fabio.

FABIO CANNAVARO

"We deserved to draw. It´s a shame because we could have pulled away from Inter. Nevertheless, the Champions League is still within our grasp. My disallowed goal? The referee blew at exactly the same time as I headed the ball, but honestly, I don’t understand for the life of me why he blew against us and awarded the free-kick."
 

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Well Reale; as this is a crucial point for me I will reply to Your post.
Just for arguments sake let's say that he did not blow before, but at the same time as Cannavaro's header (if You've really seen the match and the replays You'll know that it was before). If it was at the same time, it's inevitable, that he made up his mind before knowing what was going to happen, as he would have to physically put the whistle in his mouth, and You can see that happening at the excact second Kovacevic' falls over.
So don't talk to me about facts.

Ciao.
 

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EL Matador, what happened two years ago in the Ronaldo incident is irrelevant to the Scudetto race this season. But what if this scenario rises in waht you hoped for - playoff match for the championship, reffed by an Englishman.. Englishman makes some bad calls, but Juve win.. I doubt that there would be silence..... DEFINITELY some people will raise MORE remarks about refereeing.. Face it, Juventus has their share of bad refereeing too.

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The referee claimed, after the match, that he didn't even see the goal. I think that comment has even provoked more protest!
Perhaps this incident will be blown out of proportion, for the importance of the match. Perhaps. But I hope at least one good thing will come out of it: those with authorities in Serie A can finally be aware of the fact that something must be done to the refereeing, and referees in Serie A. Otherwise Serie A will suffer. and Italy will suffer - in terms of quality, scepticism of the fans, and reputation. I think already in several countries Serie A is associated with 'questionable refereeing'. So, if anything good comes out of tihs drama, let it be a better refereeing. Please.
And my opinion is that it should be 1-1 for the fact that there was no infringement yet the whistle was blown.
 
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Hi Nedved!

I respectfully disagree with you that the final score should be Juventus 1 Parma 1 for the reasons I talked about in my earlier post in this topic.

However, I do agree with you that the League needs to talk about refereeing this summer. Even before the Juventus-Parma game you started a topic about refereeing and how it could be improved in Serie A. This summer, after the season is over, I intend to go back and bring your topic back up for further discussion.

Finally, thank you for your polite and civil tone. I know how frustrating and maddening that disallowed goal by Cannavaro must be, which makes me respect your post even more than usual.

Zen9
 
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Hello.

I am an Inter fan and I definately want Lazio to win the Scudetto...

However, I feel all this argument about the dissallowed goal is wrong. Quite simply because the referee clearly blew his whistle before the ball went into the net. He saw some kind of infringement, he quickly blew his whistle, free-kick to Juventus. That's all there is to it.
A similar thing happened when Diego Simeone scored against ManU in the CL last season. Damn frustrating but he saw some kind of infringement and blew his whistle.
It is difficult for refs to make split-second decisions but claiming they are incompetent are bought doesn't help the game at all.

Besides, there is still one more game to go... ;)

Forza Inter
 
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