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Discussion Starter #1
Come on. Those who watched Arsenal vs. Juventus this week Real Madrid - Arsenal before know what I'm talking about. Gilberto was, is, and will always be better than Emerson. Not that I agree with some brazilians who say that Emerson is shit. He is a decent and solid player, even if the most overrated player in Europe. But in the last games I've saw him, he was simply pathetic. He scored a goal against Roma, but was horrid other than that. And in the game against Arsenal this week....he gave at least 3 good counters to Arsenal. His passing skills are abysmal. Yet, I don't see anyone in Juventus forum saying anything when he has a bad game. I think their fans just watch the game when the ball is close to the goal, and they assume that if the team defended well, it's all due to Emo.

Gilberto Silva, on the other hand, is the most underrated player in Europe. No, in the world. Actually in football history. In my opinion, he's in the top 5 of best DMs in the world. I know people will see this and laugh, and put this in their signature and stuff. Even some Arsenal fans like that famous one here in XT who used to say EDU was better than him. Edu....

Everyone gives credit to Emerson because he won Serie A twice. Gilberto is a bit younger, and he won EPL and the WORLD CUP. Being a starter in Brazilian NT, and the only DM in several games. He was huge in the last three games, especially in the final. He has good passing skills, even if he doesn't risk a lot, he's elegant, he's strong, he doesn't make many fouls. In stats, in the World Cup, he was the player or one of the players who stole most balls, and with a great average of completed passes.

I've noticed that Arsenal has better results when Gilberto plays, but no one in that forum talks about this. They are too worried with their 16-year old signings, or just watch their team when they have the ball. English people know less about tactics than Brazilians, and this is something very strong to say.

Gilberto should leave that island and go to Spain or Italy, where his football would be more appreciated. :cool:

(Arsenal fans, I like your team, I was kidding for some part, just in case you didn't notice)
 

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Gilberto has done well in UCL, especially with a 5 man midfield where he plays much deeper, but in EPL he has been atrocious all season more or less, easily our worst player who just loses so many balls.

it all depends on how you play him i suppose, as a player just in front of the central defence ok, but even against Juve don't forget he gave away many many balls in the 1st half that could have been very costly against a team that actually could attack quickly.
 

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Gilberto is and never been faster to be like Viera or Petit, in the old Arsenal style, a middlefield that could run back and foward. He was even used in the right side once or while a few seasons, and being just dedicated player, he just tried.
In UCL Arsenal is playing with more care, a few players go foward and Gilberto stay behind, covering and giving first combat, and that is what he can do, almost a third defender guarding position with discipline.
However, I do not think the UCL prove anything, it is really pathetic how Gilberto is ignored - even here. In the Real game his name was not even mentioned and the ESPN PVC managed to make a list of players that would go to the WC and forget him! In the Juventus game they only remembered him when he was arguing with Ibrahimovic. The lack of tolerance for him here is amazing, time to remember what Cerezo always said "To be in the NT being a player from Minas, you need to be playing 10 times all the players of Rio/SP". Sadly, this kind of thing remains even when the players are now in europe.
Altought if the discussing is for Brazilian NT, with the formation of Parreira, I think not only Emerson ,but Gilberto alone is too slow to cover all the defense.
 

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Gilberto has done well in the CL, but in league games he's been simply horrible for Arsenal. Emerson on the other hand is consistently brilliant everyone single season he's been in Europe.

Maybe Gilberto is underrated, whatever, but better than Emerson he's not.

Why Brazilians hate Emerson so much is beyond me.
 

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2002 called

Gilberto has been through a bad phase and I saw him missing some passes against Juventos that could have costed a goal (glad that Ibra is not very effective at times as a pass from Gilberto landed perfectly for him to counter, but he lost the ball) but Emerson has always been known for his poor passing ability, I´d rather see him played in a more defensive scheme if we need to, but today I rather Edmilson (faster) ahead of him and Gilberto after Edmilson.

But the truth is today the best DM we have is Mineiro! :star: :D passes, well, destroys and even scores crucial goals!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I don't think he was that bad in EPL, and I watch every Arsenal game. But ok, I didn't expect someone who says Edu is better than Gilberto to agree with me. Just my point of view.

And JC, Gilberto played all alone in the World Cup being the midfield first man. That midfield was more open than our defense is today - even with we had three defenders. Only when Kleberson played it became better.
 

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AMOROSO! said:
Why Brazilians hate Emerson so much is beyond me.
I'll second that
 

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Considering how poorly the people in charge of the nt has dealt with our players like Ademir da Guia and Evair, you should probably exclude us from the list even though we being in the eixo... Someone there must really hate us.
 

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Roberto Gallo said:
I don't think he was that bad in EPL, and I watch every Arsenal game. But ok, I didn't expect someone who says Edu is better than Gilberto to agree with me. Just my point of view.

Edu when plaing well was much better, which is why Gilberto was moved to the right, Gilberto is much better DM of course, but in England you don't really need a pure DM, whether he fits into a Brazilian system better is none of our concern, we only care about Arsenal. :pp
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yeah Jern, in England a pure DM is not needed. Maybe that's the reason why Manchester fell after their only pure DM stopped to play football, and Chelsea, the team with the best DM, Makelele, is ruling the league....
 

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Some points:-

The Arsenal defeat was not the right game to judge Emerson. To a man (or as near as damn it) Juventus were pathetic.

Why Brazilians hate Emerson so much is beyond me as well. I get the impression that they would make him the fall guy for everything (the economy, drugs, etc) f they had their way!

Gabrielle Marcotti (sic?) reckons he - Emerson- is the best holding midfielder in world futebol (and this guy sees a lot of calcio).

That said, I would not put him in Os 11 for the Copa, I would go with Edmilson (with a slight concen that he might be too 'loose' - not disciplined enough to protect the central defenders. I do not see the 'magic' Emerson brigs I am afraid.

Gilberto Silva has plenty of critics at Arsenal (on the rare occasions I have gone I hear them loud and clear). Talk about a man living up to his apelido of the Invisible Wall! What an accurate nickname! He does do his job quetly and efficiently and is a very clean player.

Finally, Emerson will get the nodfrom Parreira and Gilberto will play the third group game after we have won the first two (i hope!).
 

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Roberto:

And JC, Gilberto played all alone in the World Cup being the midfield first man. That midfield was more open than our defense is today - even with we had three defenders. Only when Kleberson played it became better.
The middlefield was equally open, but the defense was not. Just with 3 defenders, the DM had help to cover Cafu and RC, not to mention they are better positioned and more solid.

Testa

Considering how poorly the people in charge of the nt has dealt with our players like Ademir da Guia and Evair, you should probably exclude us from the list even though we being in the eixo... Someone there must really hate us.
Ademir had little chance in the national team because of Gerson. And Evair because his best momment happened when Romario had his best.
Other than that you can not compare wtih Raul having almost no chances in the NT, Joaozinho neither, Cerezo being cut every single oportunity, Eder also, Nelinho being in the bench for Toninho, Luizinho and Reinaldo playing just one world cup and there goes. And most of those oportunities they are changed for really average players (Eder and Joaozinho for Ze Sergio and Dirceu, Cerezo for Chicao) and there goes. Not to mention some people from eixo like Marcio Guedes blames still the defeat in 82 because there was too much players from Minas or how there is not a moviment for Alex, simple because his better spell was with Cruzeiro. In February of 2004 they are already running polls asking if Felipe or Alex should be in the NT, to think of how ridiculous.
 

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But Evair not even going to the world cup while the likes of Viola went? Not saying he should have been an starter, but at least going there wouldn't hurt anyone.... But then I shouldn't be surprised when Zagallo in that party in the end of the year fot the players of the year congratulated Fluminense (for what?) and for some reason not even mentioning us.

Anyway, I know teams in other states of the country are snubbed more than us, but I'm saying we seem like the ugly duck specially for the media: rarely they have something good to say about us. When Alex played for us the media unfairly labeled him as "sonolento".

PS: Márcio Guedes is a complete idiot.
 

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they're both complete shit. but emerson is slightly better than gilberto, possibly the worst player in the premiership. the reason he won't go to spain is because nobody is stupid enough to buy him. arsenal are stuck with him. complete pile of poo.
 

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In the domestic selecao thread I was about to mention that
I think we lack a speedy and fast defensive mid to better cover up.

In the defensive mids there might be an opening
here I was about to suggest Mineiro,
if the group wasn´t closed which it probably is.

Both Emerson,Gilberto could be seen as too slow
to cover up with only two defenders.
Edmilson too unreliable and not good enough to really do this job.

Gilberto is a very dedicated and disciplined player
in a limited cabeca of area position he is great
as said here
I actually thought that he would develop into more of a central defender
that could be used in a three defender line-up.

Main reason I guess for people to hate Emerson is that he is a too clumpsy,stupid
and brutal player at times. Lots of old baggage from times in Brazil and in selecao.

Ze Roberto has had his critics
but I see him as a very useful and good versatile player,
balance player with great work capacity and speed,
maybe not good enough in defense since used more offensively in club,
maybe holds ball too much in offense,
or are put to much load on due to the others lack of work ethics.

someone who could better work as passing/distributing player as well
is of course ideally

And there is a big question mark how well
Juninho Pernambucano can work defensively
even if I see him as possibly really good for this position
on right side with Ze Roberto beside as a more offensive lineup
or in a line up with two/three defenders and one cabeca of area.
 

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Roberto Gallo said:
Yeah Jern, in England a pure DM is not needed. Maybe that's the reason why Manchester fell after their only pure DM stopped to play football, and Chelsea, the team with the best DM, Makelele, is ruling the league....

United started falling apart when Keane became a pure DM, at their best he was very much a box to box player with Scholes. ;)

Chelsea are another matter, maybe they would be even better without Makelele? i'm sure they could find a better midfielder with their unlimitless funds.
 

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agree, he is so bad that we should give him a free pass to play for Argentina, the he would have company
 

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Emerson is the new Dunga, simple as that. Emerson is the living proof that Brazilian fans have learned NOTHING from Dunga's career. Brasilians still are searching for that "ideal" defensive mid, who's not only defensively solid but also fast, skillful, charismatic, goalscoring, and if possible he should also be able to fly. :strong: :rolleyes: When Emerson retires, the universal contempt that surrounds him will naturally shift to someone else.

Of course, the Brasilian "public opinion" has a long history of cluelessness. Four years ago "the people demanded Romario" for the WC, Scolari was treated like dirt for refusing to listen to the "vox populi", and in the end we all saw how 'indispensable' the Baixinho really was. Nobody trusted Lucio either, and Cafu only stopped being universally reviled when his stellar performances began to make the critics look like fools.

Testa said:
PS: Márcio Guedes is a complete idiot.
I'll second that. And a resentful idiot, at that. A couple of years ago he gave a wrong information about Botafogo live on TV, and Bota's president Bebeto de Freitas corrected him also on live TV, to which Guedes responded by throwing a public temper tantrum... and since that day, Marcio Guedes has been visibly biased against Bebeto de Freitas' administration. :thmbdown:

But the biggest fool of all journalists is without a doubt Fernando Calazans. Last week he said on ESPN that the Copa America final against Argentina was "proof" that the Quarteto Magico was the Best Formation Ever, because it was a such "spectactular" performance by the Quartet. Which was a REALLY bizarre thing to say, because A) Brasil DIDN'T use the "Magic Quartet" on that competition, and B) Brasil DIDN'T give a "spectacular" performance on that final, quite the opposite. Doesn't anyone at ESPN see that Calazans is a blithering idiot? :googly: :wallbang:
 

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But Evair not even going to the world while the likes of Viola went? Not saying he should have been an starter, but at least going there wouldn't hurt anyone....
That is a collection of mistakes done by Parreira and people forget - Not only he took Viola, but also Paulo Sergio from Corinthians (altought if I recall well, in 94, the "exactly" momment was when the first parmalat team started to decline, which made many players of that Palmeiras to lose space) and left here Rivaldo. In fact, he left here Edmundo (who was much better than Evair and since we had Ronaldo already as central foward in the bench, perhaps a better option) also. Roberto Carlos to took an unfit Branco (Who only scored a goal and people seem to think a free kick can justify his call 1 month before the cup). Also in the middlefield, he left here Marcelinho Carioca or Djalminha (and what happened ? The only option for the offensive/creative middlefield failed; as he was playing terrible and anyone knew it was a danger, so it was necessary to have a back up for him(Rai) had to be replaced by Mazinho because Paulo Sergio was wasting space in the bench and Rivaldo, Edmundo, Djalminha and Marcelinho watching the cup here.
In the goal, although he today invented the "unexperient keeper for the next cup" thing, he took Gilmar and left Dida here.
When People say that in 2002 we are lucky because the adversaries I always consider if any cup the lucky was really at our side was in 94.
 
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