[Ordet]

(Hi, this is my first post, i'm italian and fan of hungarian soccer, i hope this is the right place for this thread).

Do you know the soccer simulation game called "Football Manager" ?
I would like work at better database about hungarian football (for this e for the next version), which isn't covered at all (many players have random skill).

In this game besides singular attributes (technical like technique, finishing, passing; mental like creativity, bravery and physical like pace, jumping etc..), there are 2 important and general attributes (that determinate the singular) that are: CA (current ability, that is che overal ability of a player at the start of the game) and PA (potential ability, that is the max ability that the player can achieve in the future).
CA and PA are from 1 to 200 (best)

Almost all youth in the database have random PA and when the game is created this will be fixed following this table:

-10 = 170-200
-9 = 150-180
-8 = 130-160
-7 = 110-140
-6 = 90-120
-5 = 70-100
-4 = 50-80
-3 = 30-60
-2 = 10-40
-1 = 0-20

For example: Kakà (Milan) have CA=190 and PA=194; Zoltan Gera have CA=133 and PA=155 (and I think CA/PA are too low);
K.Nemeth have CA=110 and PA=-9 (I fought for him, because in the first versione of the database is have only PA=-7, and I suggest -9 or -10 but initially the head research of the game didn't want change it, fortunately at the end he changed his idea).

So, in the game the hungarian player are (imho) underrated - we have only a few good young: Nemeth (PA -9), Filkor, Varga, Vass (-8), Koman (PA=150), and many team haven't the youth team (like Ferencvaros)

So, I'll be very grateful, if you could help me, telling me the best young (and their ability, in your opinion), and what CA/PA about the best hungarian player.

Thanks,

 

[Andor]

Only thing that could be adjusted are the club finances. The PA's should be left at random, it's not like there is a supertalent running around there (cue Bentex coming in and starting about Tisza )

 

[Ordet]

About finances I haven't knowledge, but I think that CA/PA must be adjuste also in Hungarian League: every year in the game the team buy foreing player (young serbian, bosniac etc...) 'cause they are better and very few place remains to national players: in the realily isn't so: the teams are full of hungarian player.

 

[Andor]

Actually that happens in real life plenty of times *cough* Ujpest *cough*

 

[Ordet]

Actually that happens in real life plenty of times *cough* Ujpest *cough*

Yes, but I say that in the first eleven, max 2 are hungarian, and this seem to be ureal. I manage Ferencvaros and to be competitive I have about 23 players in first team and only 3 hungarian...

 

[Esik]

Well, I would say the AP Stieber at Aston Villa can be somewhere 7-9.

Dudás (at Győr currently) can be between 6-9. Farkas at Dinamo Kiev also 6-9 both did show great staff but not necessery found the best teams for they developement.

BTW as a help: Németh i would rate 8-10, regarding his will, his luck etc.

And I would like to propose you to find some data about players from the Sándor Károly Academy of the MTK. (They have a contract with Liverpool, currently 3 ex MTK youngsters, Németh, Simon (striker, do not dare to rate him yet) and Gulácsi(keeper 7-10) are at LFC.

Honvéd also founded an Academy, and looks like Ferencváros will do it too, so may be that will be promising in the coming years too.

17 years old Kádár was bought this winter by Newcastle (Central back, left back) from Zalaegerszeg (ZTE), he also can be somewhere 7-10 (He was sold already as the most expensive Hungarian defender ever, wich is not a bad thing at the age of 17)

Bogdán (reserve keeper at Bolton Wanderers) also shows real promise. (7-10)

 

[Ordet]

About Roland Varga (Brescia), how is he ? (his playing style etc..)

 

[MagyarGyerek]

Hes at Brescia?! LoL! I didn't know that... well, hes the Hungarian Ronaldo

 

[Andor]

Why not give all Hungarian players -10 ?

 

[Esik]

Why not give all Hungarian players -10 ?

As for me: what i saw Németh, Kádár, vass and a few keepers can earn it. But because I saw most of them on youth level or/and NB1 mostly, even them I would not give a strict 10. They may have the potential.

As some help about my measures. For me the potentials of some current NT players: Huszti is 7, Dzsudzsák is 7-8, both Gera and Buzsáky 8-9, Juhász is 7(sometimes hoping 8 though ), Priskin 4-7, Fülöp 7-8, Feczesin 5-7, Thorgelle 6-8, Tőzsér 5-7, Vadócz 6-8. Szélesi 4-6, Vanczák 5-6.

Dárdai is about 6.5, Király currently: 3-4, at his best was about 7.5

 

[Andor]

I personally think the highest PA a Hungarian should have in the game is -7

 

[MagyarGyerek]

well, that's good 4 U

 

[Esik]

I personally think the highest PA a Hungarian should have in the game is -7

Yes. And you write that. But I do not see it like you, so I'm not gonna write the same numbers.

 

[Esik]

I personally think the highest PA a Hungarian should have in the game is -7

Buy the way: this is pure racism.

 

[MagyarStuttgart]

As for me: what i saw Németh, Kádár, vass and a few keepers can earn it. But because I saw most of them on youth level or/and NB1 mostly, even them I would not give a strict 10. They may have the potential.

As some help about my measures. For me the potentials of some current NT players: Huszti is 7, Dzsudzsák is 7-8, both Gera and Buzsáky 8-9, Juhász is 7(sometimes hoping 8 though ), Priskin 4-7, Fülöp 7-8, Feczesin 5-7, Thorgelle 6-8, Tőzsér 5-7, Vadócz 6-8. Szélesi 4-6, Vanczák 5-6.

Dárdai is about 6.5, Király currently: 3-4, at his best was about 7.5

You really think that players like Fulop, Torghelle and Vadocz could have more potential than Huszti? That surprises me.

 

[MagyarGyerek]

Fulop yes, the other 2 no, ESPECIALLY Torghelle

 

[Esik]

You really think that players like Fulop, Torghelle and Vadocz could have more potential than Huszti? That surprises me.

I saw all that players in top forms, and not only on television.

Huszti: he has good shot, good skills, but too one diomensional moves to be a really good left winger. to be a left midfielder: his defensive work is far from enough. He has great moments, but you can predict his moves. I so him many times, and he never "surprised" me in a way, as Gera or Buzsáky did many times not just once in a single game.

Torghelle: he will not fullfill what he is capable of because of his temperament. But for the position he playes he has more to offer. If he could play his full game, would be more as lone figthing striker, than Huszti as left winger, or left midfielder.

Vadócz: i saw the kid since he was U19, and never understood why he was not able to play regularly in a level he is capable of. Has good build, can tackle, has anticipation, has vision and can distribute the ball he earned. At his best he would be one of my top choices to play on Vass's side as second defensive midfielder.

Fülöp: yes, i think he can be better as keeper than Huszti as LM or LW.

But this whole thing is based on opinion. And to be honest I'm stating to be a bit tired of this. Someone asked what our ratings are and what young players we would offer to watch. I gave my opinion and rating. And what happened: you did not give yours but started to criticise mine.

Ok guys, come out and let's see your ratings.

 

[Andor]

Only thing that could be adjusted are the club finances. The PA's should be left at random, it's not like there is a supertalent running around there (cue Bentex coming in and starting about Tisza )

My opinion It will ruine the game if you overrate players to much. Just look at the EPL :wallbang: Their "researchers" overrated the crap out of everyone, while countries like Hungary or even the Czech Republic (they don't even have the correct names there) are left random because there aren't researchers, or they don't use the feedback given by them.

Anyways, I don't care actually..Stopped playing the game, it's not fun anymore..

 

[MagyarStuttgart]

Someone asked what our ratings are and what young players we would offer to watch. I gave my opinion and rating. And what happened: you did not give yours but started to criticise mine.

First of all, I did not criticize you but said that it surprises me. Which it did, since I disagreed. But if you consider that a criticism, then I think you're overreacting.

If you want to know my opinion on those four players: Huszti was a star in Hungary, he wasn't great in France and I was surprised he got a move to Hannover. But there he turned out to be a big hit, he can have off-days, but when on form(which is what potential is all about) he has been hugely effective. He is arguably his side's best player, and it's no surprise that he's been linked to bunch of fairly high-profile clubs. He gives good crosses, great corners, he's quite smart in his play, he rarely attempts the impossible pass for example, but still is solid in building up play. His penalties are excellent. His defense is not amazing, but he showed playing at leftback with Metz that while he 'wasn't great', as I already said, he could still defend competently when necessary. Perhaps he isn't a 'surprising' player, but neither are Mascherano and Pirlo for example, and it doesn't hide the fact that they are excellent players. Huszti is however able to change a game on a good day, as he has already done numerous times for Hannover.

Torghelle: He fights hard, usually ineffectively. He's not a technically gifted player in my opinion, I've seen him score excellent goals against Nuernberg and Koeln, but this isn't the norm with him. I don't think he's got very good positioning, especially for a striker, and he's clearly not deadly - he can certainly finish, but he doesn't put himself into a finishing position nearly often enough imo. Especially considering he has one of the best creators of his league on his side, Jan Simak, who is definitely capable of creating chances for the side's strikers. In fact, Huszti is likely to end up this season with more goals than him, even though that is not his primary job from his position. I know a lot were penalties, but this factor nonetheless must be considered. Finally he is much too hot-headed, though I don't need to explain that. I can guarantee you he'd be a third, fourth or fifth choice striker at any 1. bundesliga side, even the relegation battlers, so I don't know why he'd be more effective in his position than Huszti.

Vadocz: I haven't seen him as much as you and won't claim to, he definitely distributes the ball well and does an ordinary-solid job in midfield. For me he has a slightly-less-good Zvonimir Soldo. And I can guarantee you I would rate Huszti higher than Soldo, although that player is one of my favourites of all time and admittedly plays in a different position to Huszti. As for wondering why he hasn't made it big in places where he 'should', that might be because coaches and staff have seen something from him we haven't, that would prevent them from putting faith in him. He's having a solid season in Holland, but is not at huszti's level, and I don't ever see him becoming anything more than a second-choice player on our side.

Fulop: This is different, and perhaps it was silly of me to bring him up since rating a keeper is completely different to rating any other player. He did well with Leicester but still makes his errors. I think he'll become a very good player at championship level, I don't know if he'll ever cut it at the premiership. Huszti I think could play in the Premiership, albeit for a mid-table side at best. But again, I perhaps shouldn't have compared them since Fulop is a goalkeeper. But again, I think Fulop is only going to be a temporary NT keeper until one of our promising young keepers (Bogdan, Gulacsi, etc...) can break through somewhere, which I expect at least one of them will.

Now, since you asked here are the ratings that I PERSONALLY would give to the players you mentioned:
Huszti: 8
Dzsudzsak: 8-9(we'll see how he does in PSV, I might be overrating him)
Gera: 8
Buzsaky: 8
Juhasz: 7-8
Priskin: 6-7
Fulop: 7
Feczesin: 6-7
Torghelle: 6
Tozser: 6-7
Vadocz: 6-7
Szelesi: 6-7
Vanczak: 5-6

and the non-NT players you mentioned:
Dardai: 8 at his top times, now 7
Kiraly: 8 at his top times, now 5-6

 

[Ordet]

Esik, i think you have made a bit confusion about PA (the randon -n -where n=from 1to10- it's used about youth and it's means that the player, when you start a game, can have a PA set from a range -n: eg: Nemeth with -9, a game can have PA=155, in another game =173) to make a comparison, Babel have -9, Pato -10, Lulinha -9, Bartha -6 , Buzsaky has fixed PA = 152 (all this in official Database)

In the official database the best hungarian is Huszti, the most promisal Nemeth (with random from 160to180 and Dzsudzsak with PA=167)

In my database i set this value about the following players (in the bracket the original value):
Zoltan Gera CA=144 (133) (so he is the best player of WB with Davies) PA=170 (155)
K. Nemeth CA=123 (110) (he is the fifth striker, the 7th if you count also as striker Babel and LeTallec) PA=-10 (-9)
Huszti CA=159 (146) (so he is the best of Hannover with Enke) PA=180 (162)
Juhasz CA=140 (128) (maybe too high ? he scored against Italy ) PA=160 (136)
Torghelle CA=115 (115) PA=135 (145)
Hrepka CA=125 (119) PA=-8 (-7)
Feczesin CA=120 (95) PA=-8 (135)
Hajnal CA=141(141) PA=155 (155) (I didn't change him)
Buzsaky CA=130 (123) PA=160 (152)
Dzsudzsak CA=143 (130) PA=180 (167)
Tisza CA=120 (115) PA=145 (145)
Vass CA=125 (103) PA=-9 (-8)
Filkor CA=123 (105) PA=-9 (-8)
Vadocz CA=127 (119) PA=160 (140)
Fulop CA=143 (121) PA=155 (145)


and from Ferencvaros
Bartha CA=109 (95) PA=-8 (-6)
Lipcsei CA=108 (108) PA=110 (140) ( I lowered his PA 'cause his age, for him a higher PA is useless)

To make comparison with famous player in original Database:
Pato CA=160 PA=-10
Pirlo CA=180 PA=185
Robben CA=171 PA=186
Bojan CA=144 PA=-10
Ronaldinho CA=175 PA=197
Nani CA=149 PA=179
Babel CA=157 PA=-9

The PA (potential ability) isn't the value of player when he is at top form (this remains the CA), but the value that the player can gained if he will be well coached, in good structure, and he will not fall in hard injures e so on, in many years (depends of his age)