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Ok, I know fangul will freak when reading this, but I feel it's now time to post it: Fire Trapp - get rid of his weak brain. Remove him from the National team. It is the only way to start anew with a good clean slate. It's the only path to serenity and calm. We'll never succeed under a man that plays favorites, experiments at WCups after finding a great module thru qualifying, chooses lame players, disses Baggio and chickens out when the tough gets going. I don't even know why he's still there. Is Italy just waiting for the Cup to end before sacking him? He's not my coach anymore. He failed miserably. And like all failures before him, he must pay the price. STOP HIDING BEHIND THE REF'S BAD CALLS, TRAPP. GO, JUST GO.
:fero:
 

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Primo said:
Ok, I know fangul will freak when reading this, but I feel it's now time to post it: Fire Trapp - get rid of his weak brain. Remove him from the National team. It is the only way to start anew with a good clean slate. It's the only path to serenity and calm. We'll never succeed under a man that plays favorites, experiments at WCups after finding a great module thru qualifying, chooses lame players, disses Baggio and chickens out when the tough gets going. I don't even know why he's still there. Is Italy just waiting for the Cup to end before sacking him? He's not my coach anymore. He failed miserably. And like all failures before him, he must pay the price. STOP HIDING BEHIND THE REF'S BAD CALLS, TRAPP. GO, JUST GO.
:fero:
I agree for some of the reason you wrote and above all for a reason you did not write: Italy played the worst football in the WC even if in Italy we have some of the best players in the world.
 

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Amen! Who ever doesn't like it can stick it in HIS pipe and smoke it!

Primo,

Half of the fun is seeing how mad a certain one gets when he hears truths he doesn't like. Unlike us. We have lives and don't live just to post and fight. Later...;)
 

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Re: Re: Fire Trapp

ToniSamp said:


I agree for some of the reason you wrote and above all for a reason you did not write: Italy played the worst football in the WC even if in Italy we have some of the best players in the world.
Hi, Toni..:D

Yes, we should fire Trap for all the stupid strategy he made for Azzuri.. I think he's a disgrace for your country if he continue take the position as a NT coach..

And sad but true... Italy played the worst football in the WC.. while we have so many great players in the WC and appears to be made it till the end, but then.... they're going down.

Maybe that's the main reason why Trap get so confused to play them on the field, cause they were damn good as an individuals but perhaps they're not too good as a team.. Let's take a look at Argentina and France.. they also have skillfull players.. top players, but they're going home sooner..

So, I think having the best-top-excellent players in your team doesn't always the benefit, cause they can become an ego self centered maniac and play as an individuals rather than as a Team. Korea, Senegal and all the small team, who made it to the top, they're solid as a team, even they didn't have top players like us... I mean Azzuri ;)
 

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Sack trap...thats a given

But hire a foregin coach...we need a new mentality, new tactic, a fresh coach who will pick players on merit not favoritism

Lav
 
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You can't blame Trap soley for Italy's premature exit from the World Cup. There have been a multitude of reasons why Italy have under-achieved, which have been highlighted numerous times before so i won't bother mentioning them again.

But i think the factor people fail to mention often enough is the players. A lot of them really didn't rise to the occasion and even thogh the Azzuri were hard done by the officating they still didn't perform well enough for their standards. Vieri missed that guilt-edged chance at the end of normal time in the Korea match, Panucci made that horrendous mistake to let them tie the game and overall the defence didn't cut the mustard. They weren't convincing by any stretch of the imagination. One has to be objective when it comes to dishing out the blame. Trap should get his fair share for some suspect (to say the least) substitutions and tactics but the rest should take responsibility for the early exit like the officals, players and lady luck.

At the end of the day, will the Italian NT be better off with or without Trappatoni? You may have already've hastily formed an answer but take a bit of time to reflect on it and you might have second thoughts.
IMHO, i think Trappa should stay on as Italy coach at least in the near future. If things don't improve then get someone new.
 

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Nero said:
Trap should get his fair share for some suspect (to say the least) substitutions and tactics
Well, this is more than enough to sack him.
I want a true CT for Italy: a person who is able to teach tactics to the players and whose teams play modern football.
 

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Lou said:
Amen! Who ever doesn't like it can stick it in HIS pipe and smoke it!

Primo,

Half of the fun is seeing how mad a certain one gets when he hears truths he doesn't like. Unlike us. We have lives and don't live just to post and fight. Later...;)
hehe, you sound like my three year old son who gets a kick out of taking the piss out of his older sister...dream on sucka...

Go Trapattoni go - but make sure you listen to Lou from joisy as he has a lot of wise advice to dole out
hahahaha, what a dipstick...
 
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Fair enough Trap had some responsibility for they way we played in the WC, but isnt it down to the players to perform?? Its very easy to blame the coach. Maybe if Totti wasnt rated soo highly, and himself not being so arrogant and selfish wanting to play two positions just so he can look good. He himself should have said, im a midfielder, play montella, or del piero up forward. But no, like a hero he went into the midfield when he was meant to be up forward and always left Vieri by himself against 3 defenders. I wonder if Del Peiro played the same way Totti did in the WC, anymore abuse he would get! But no one has mentioned the same expectation was placed on Totti as it was on DP several years ago, DP played poorly and is still getting abused, Totti, well he just played SH!T.
 

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Well Peruk, you're right about Totti. But also the media and the CT coach are to blame for putting so much pressure on Totti. They haven't learned a thing about the DP-case which you mentioned.

And Nero about the players that failed: ok you're right. But before the WC I had a feeling that the defence wasn't of the quality of Euro2000. Maldini, Cannavaro and Nesta haven't had their best seasons in their career. And compared with the Euro2000 squad, the forwardline at Trap's disposal was far more impressive (on paper at least). So I don't understand that a CT who played the qualification with (for Italy standards) attacking football and concentrates during the WC on a (for Italy standards) weakened defence. By the end you could say that Zoff's squad was more attacking-oriented than Trap's one.
 

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In the age of Eu and all that, and in view that england have a foreign coach, i think its time that Italy employs a foreign manager as he will be able to show what has been apparent for years, which is the current italian team is not capable of defending a one goal lead as they used to. They have however more options in the forward line than at anytime in ther history. I mean look at the forwards that went and some that didn't go and you will have an idea what i am saying. And besides most of the players now play for clubs where a 5-0 score is not uncommon.
Take for example in 1987 when Napoli won the league Maradona was joint top scorer in his team with 10 goals, but this season pippo maniero in a relegated team scored 15 goals, its not as if they played more games. Unfortunately Trapatoni hasn't the capacity to change and its not just in the wc that he showed this.
People say Italy played entertaining football in the qualifiers which is true, but lets be honest Hungary, Georgia, Lithuania and a Romanian side in transition were hardly competition but you have to beat whats put in front fo you and they did. Then the warm ups lost to Argentina and Czech republic, drew with uruguay beat england s. africa, morrocco and u.s a and were unconvincing in all the matches.
For all those who are in favour of Trapatoni, i ask you these questions, why did a striker like Montella who was the most in form striker in the latter part of serie A, play just a few minutes?
why did delpiero who led his club to seria championship and was in very good form play so little? Why was an injured Inzaghi placed ahead of dp and montella? why was italy's hopes placed on an injured and an unfit Totti? Why did Doni go when it was clear he wasn't in good form or in 100% shape by the time the wc came around, its not as if he was a regular? What on earth is a player like Gattusso doing in the wc? What use is Di livio ?
Why no chievo players tried at all in matches leading to the wc, after all they were team of the season? Why wasn't an alternative to Zambrotta looked for and found thruout the season?why no Fiore or Ambrosini?
I am sorry i personally do not see any reason why Trapatoni should continue as he will never and i mean never change his ways because in his mind it was not his tactics or choice of players that failed but it was a "conspiracy" against Italy
 

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Primo said:
Ok, I know fangul will freak when reading this, but I feel it's now time to post it: Fire Trapp - get rid of his weak brain. Remove him from the National team. :fero:
.........and put somebody similar to him. :rolleyes:

I am not justifying Trap and his methods. I am too, furious about his methods. :fero:

But name me his replacement. Capello, lippi, Ancelotti...etc, they are all similar. Italian football doesn't have established attacking minded coach.:eek: right now.

so u see....in my opinion let him continue and if he fails in the 2004 Euro....then Italian football will need radical changes in mentality. I think in the present WC failure, he has had the oppurtunity to hide behind dubious refreeing. I don't think its going to be the same in the EURO 2004 i.e dubious refreeing. so I say give him another go.

Ciao
 

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I don't think Lippi is defense minded at all, but i do think Capello is and as for Ancellotti, the thought makes me cringe. What of Del Neri? And for a foreign coach i quite like the idea of Cruyff, as he is a big enuff personality and he is more attack minded. Do u really wanna see Gattusso in the euro 2004 or do u think that Trap will ever play Pirlo and Totti in the same team. I have known Trapatoni since he was at Inter and i have actually seen him take of klinsmann and bring on another striker when inter were 3-1 down with 30 minutes to go, believe me ,he will never change
 

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Discussion Starter #14
This is a good, healthy debate (other than the boring Totti-bashing) because it essentially allows us to introspect on what we think went wrong. I happen to believe Trapp played all the wrong cards. Imagine being dealt a 5-star hand (the team he could of chosen) and ending up with what we got, particularly in terms of performance and selections. He said he didn't want to bring injured players and brought two injured playmakers in spite of the great Roby Baggio. He played 3-4-1-2 for months, only to change it, scared to death by mighty Ecuador. :D
When we were eliminated he was playing w/ DiLivio and Gattuso in the midfield, Panucci and Maldini out of place and a lone, tired striker while our greats sat on the bench. Oh yea, Montella got up to stretch w/ 5 mins. left. These are not minor coaching mistakes gentleman. I mean, these are glaring, screaming errors that cannot be justified or be allowed to be repeated. His time is through. Enjoy your elderly years, Trapp. Take comfort. You helped ruin our dreams.
 

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Monsieur D said:
I don't think Lippi is defense minded at all, but i do think Capello is and as for Ancellotti, the thought makes me cringe. What of Del Neri? And for a foreign coach i quite like the idea of Cruyff, as he is a big enuff personality and he is more attack minded. Do u really wanna see Gattusso in the euro 2004 or do u think that Trap will ever play Pirlo and Totti in the same team. I have known Trapatoni since he was at Inter and i have actually seen him take of klinsmann and bring on another striker when inter were 3-1 down with 30 minutes to go, believe me ,he will never change
No, I think Cruyff's total Football will fail. :depress: Not becouse its bad, but becoz it demands high level performances from our Primadonnas. Do u think that is possible with players who earn millons of bucks every year playing club football?? For that u need players like gattuso (I mean by that spirit wise and not talent wise), players those who will give their heart to the team.

Yes delNeri is a good choice, but then again one good season dosen't prove anything. Let him prove himself for a couple of seasons.

Oh yes Lippi is defensive. Watched the Champions League this season (barring one or two matches) ?

Primo is right on one point, we need managers who are not going to bench our top performers (i.e. players on form such as Montella). And play with a proven tactics and not change them from game to game.:rolleyes:

Ciao
 

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Primo said:
This is a good, healthy debate (other than the boring Totti-bashing) because it essentially allows us to introspect on what we think went wrong. I happen to believe Trapp played all the wrong cards. Imagine being dealt a 5-star hand (the team he could of chosen) and ending up with what we got, particularly in terms of performance and selections. He said he didn't want to bring injured players and brought two injured playmakers in spite of the great Roby Baggio. He played 3-4-1-2 for months, only to change it, scared to death by mighty Ecuador. :D
When we were eliminated he was playing w/ DiLivio and Gattuso in the midfield, Panucci and Maldini out of place and a lone, tired striker while our greats sat on the bench. Oh yea, Montella got up to stretch w/ 5 mins. left. These are not minor coaching mistakes gentleman. I mean, these are glaring, screaming errors that cannot be justified or be allowed to be repeated. His time is through. Enjoy your elderly years, Trapp. Take comfort. You helped ruin our dreams.
I agree with you. I think that another coach unlikely would make all the mistakes Trap did in the last WC. Furthermore he is absolutely unable to learn something from his mistakes (in fact he repeated the same mistakes he made against Croatia in the game against Korea), then we can only expect a disappointing team if Trap remains.
 

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Cruyff's barcelona did not play total football, thats a fallacy, they did not defend as one like the dutch did, they just attacked, as for primadonnas well are there any bigger prima donnas in the Italian team than Romario and Stoichkov, no i do not think so.
This Italian team did not fail because they were primadonnas, they were let down by the coach's tactics as he knew before hand that he didn't have much a midfield, but still persisted with negative tactics. Everbody in the world knew that Italy had 3 of the best goal keepers, 3 world class defenders and better than average other defenders, 3 world class strikers in totti, dp and vieri and excellent strikers in Inzaghi and Montella but what happened they went out in the second round against south korea, should have gone out in the first round but managed to scale thru, should have been a shot in the arm but didn't , Trap still persisted with negative tactics.
What was Panucci doing playing as left wing back against mexico,when there was Coco, why was Doni plsying left midfield, did he ever play there for his club and why is the most gifted playmaker in Italy and one of the best in his position in the world playing as a second striker, when a superior second striker was left on the bench, i am talking about totti and Delpiero. Is there a rule that says Vieri can't be subbed?
As for Lippi i repeat he is nt negative, his tactics and choice of plyers are atimes questionable but he is not negative as he doesn't sit on a 1 goal lead and to win the serie a with our midfield requires a special skill and juve scored the most goals. In champions league we didnt have the players of required class short and simple nothing to do with negaitivity we were outclassed. Look at Milan, with all their gifted players," Ancellotti the great", like Trapatoni ,will always take a gifted side and make them look poor, becos to them, only results matter.
 

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... and I also agree with Mister D!
Lippi is a MUCH different coach from Trapattoni.
Now it seems that we say all this bad things on Trap just because he lost.... but this is not true! Before the WC there were many people who had doubts about him and we (FAIRLY!!) have criticized him since the first match against Ecuador. If he was intelligent he would have listened to 50 milions Italians telling him "Use the forwards, leave Di Livio and Gattuso on the bench".
No, he followed on the wrong road and now we are OUT.

I'm just sorry that Moreno did all those "mistakes" :)mad:) in our match against Ecuador, cause now he acts as a lightning rod while Trap is quiet and confirmed.... THIS THING MAKE ME EVEN MORE CRAZY THAN MORENO! WE HAVE TO STAND THIS OLD BURK FOR TWO MORE YEARS!
 

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as primo mentioned nice discussion. You guys have good points. :)

But i have to leave now. Hopefully will be joining this discussion tomorow. :hopefull:

Ciao
 

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To be honest with you, I was one of those who never really appreciated Traps tactics right from the beginning. When I dared speak against him, I was shot down. Very good points were made about his credability from the people in this forum, so I was easily convinced kept quiet and went along with it. Well, I'm very hurt and sad today, when I found out for myself that I was right about Trappatoni.

Here was a coach that is afraid of all opponents. A coach should never fear any squad they are up against, no matter what the reputation of that opponent is. Trap, fears all teams, big or small. He even feared the likes of Equador for christ sake and then Mexico. Did anybody take a good look at this man on the side lines ? A total reck is what he was, nervous as all hell. Now If you are leading an army in the battlefield, would it be positive to demonstrate to your soldiers that you are scared too ? For this reason alone, this man should to the honerable thing and leave.

Next, he could never make up his mind as to who he was going to bring to the WC, and when it was finally time to pick the team, he brought with him what most of us were afarid he might do. He finally had a chance to field a creative midifeld, at least much better then this one, and instead decided to leave some key players behind and bring on some dead wood instead. Right then, I new that the Azzuri would once again have a poor midfield and that they would eventually have to once again turn to defending. In fact, it turned out even worse then the last WC.

Finally, with the group of players he brought to this WC, Instead of doing the intelligent thing to use them as efficiently and affective as possible, he did the most idiotic thing possible and fielded some of the most absurd line ups, even under th most urgent circumstances.

Sorry guy's. Despite Traps record in Europe, this man has gone down as the worst ever coach. At least for me.

Now he's talking about staying ! Oh my goodness !!!
 
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