EURO08- what is an acceptable result for the tournament?

4326 Views 111 Replies 38 Participants Last post by Rupa, Apr 11, 2008

Ćevapčići kid

Discussion Starter · Mar 20, 2008

For you what is acceptable?

Can we have a poll mods.

1-I will accept nothing less then winning the whole thing
2-I will except nothing less then semis
3-I will accept nothing less the quaters
4-I will accept nothing less then getting out of the group stage
5-I will accept anything
6-Other, please explain

81 - 100 of 112 Posts

Lista

· #81 · Mar 28, 2008

Ćevapčići kid;6221546 said:
Well i wouldnt put Knezevic in right now.

I would go with this

Srna-Corluka-Simunic-Pranjic. 3 of those guys know those postions like the back of their hands

I'm all for this! R. Kovac's form is dipping, and I don't want to see Simic in there.

Orkan_Dugi Rat

· #82 · Mar 28, 2008

Suhovare_ZD said:
This was always going to happen (much) sooner than later. We find ourselves now in the situation of having to make adjustments to crucial areas of the team at the worst possible time. A bit of foresight and all of this could have been avoided.

I disagree. I think, barring a couple of matches, our defence struggled in this campaign (inc. friendlies). Our right flank was probably our strongest point at one stage in the campaign but our left wing was always a concern. Krunchie's form fluctuated and he really hit a low with the NT towards the end there (notwithstanding his strike against the English). We did score goals but were also kept scoreless by the Russians twice, had a monumental struggle against the Macedonians (in both matches) and managed to beat the Estonians (away) and Israelis (home) by solitary goal margins. If you take away the two Andorra games it makes up for a bulk of the qual. games.

Slaven's comments after the game suggest otherwise. Yes, the striker's position is up for grabs and Pranjić still needs to secure the LB position but these issues aren't the most pressing.

The only changes that have happened, as I see it, is that Vukojević has replaced Leko as the no.2 DM, that Knežević is now ahead of Šimić (but still behind Šimunić). It's not good enough that we have these guys still not in the XI 3 months out from the opening match. How much more proof do we need that Robi is finished? Does he need to cost us the three points against Austria before we say enough is enough?

Apart from physical and psychological preparation, nothing in terms of the XI will come out of those three weeks. When grading Slaven's performance the immediate weeks before the tournament fall into a separate category IMO. By then, if changes will be made he has to already have made them.

Suhovare_ZD said:
It's never late to make the right change but what happens now is that most likely we will not be doing it on our own terms. These guys will not be given the best possible opportunity to gel (speaking hypothetically because these changes will not be made) because you need to do it as far away from the spotlight as possible and ideally with as much preparation as possible. For example, if Knežević comes in it will most likely be as a replacement for an out of form Robert Kovač. Instead of doing this in a qualifying game against Estonia at home in what is essentially a safe encounter we are doing it against Germany in a cut throat clash at Euro 2008. He may come through with flying colours but he could just as easily crumble (remember Tomas at WC2006).

ps. it's always more dangerous to go into a game with an untried defensive unit than it is with the midfield or attack. These positions require a great understanding between the players and at the highest level any mistake will be punished (just like the Dutch punished our sloppiness in Split).

BINGO! :thumbsup:

Sulla

· #83 · Mar 28, 2008

Suho,

With regards to our qualifiers, I think you underestimate our performances. Our two draws against the Russians were more a victory for them than us; you claim that we had a 'monumental struggle' against Macedonia at home but we played in their half for 85min and only conceded because of a Pletikosa howler; and although we only beat Isarel at home by a single goal, based on our control over the game anything less would've been daylight robbery.

In short, a home and away competition rarely lies. We ended up with a single loss, a goal difference of +20 and conceded 8 goals over 12 games.

Slaven's comments after the game suggest otherwise.

One thing I like about Bilic is that he's shrewd. He rarely draws conlusions in front of the press and he never talks a player down. After the game he even said that Simic was still in contention for a center back role, and he was right to say so. Part of Bilic's job is to keep opportunities open to all his players and to keep competition alive. Doesn't mean that Simic is just gonna slip back into his old role.

Apart from physical and psychological preparation, nothing in terms of the XI will come out of those three weeks. When grading Slaven's performance the immediate weeks before the tournament fall into a separate category IMO. By then, if changes will be made he has to already have made them.

I disagree that nothing will come of the 3 weeks as far as the starting XI is concerned. Those 3 weeks will be the longest period of time those players will have been in Bilic's hands.

As a further example, in '98 Ciro only got things right with the Vatreni against the Romanians. Prior to that there was still a lot of uncertainty both defensively and in midfield. And we weren't the only ones...plenty of teams find themselves tinkering during the tourneys themselves. That's just part of the uncertainty of football. What matters is whether you're capable of reacting quickly and correctly.

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Suho

· #84 · Mar 29, 2008

Sulla said:
With regards to our qualifiers, I think you underestimate our performances. Our two draws against the Russians were more a victory for them than us; you claim that we had a 'monumental struggle' against Macedonia at home but we played in their half for 85min and only conceded because of a Pletikosa howler; and although we only beat Isarel at home by a single goal, based on our control over the game anything less would've been daylight robbery.

Reading over my post again I must admit I made it sound like we struggled to get there.

Obviously, I don't think we struggled but I just wanted to highlight that things weren't as smooth as they appear (we did finish top comfortably).

Of the games you mentioned, the Israel one is still fresh in my mind. Do you remember how poor Šimić and Kovač were? This game sort of sums up our whole campaign - we were in control, we got the desired result but but as the game went on more ****** in our armour appeared.

In short, a home and away competition rarely lies. We ended up with a single loss, a goal difference of +20 and conceded 8 goals over 12 games.

We were equally as impressive in WC2006 qualifying and we all know how that ended. It's different now but it goes to show that the results you achieve in the quals can mask some real flaws in your play.

He rarely draws conlusions in front of the press

He does, and it frustrates me no end. After the Macedonia game in Zagreb he said "Srna will start the next game". After another game he came out and said Balaban is our 3rd option, and then he made a similar comment about Ola after the next game. I remember posting about it in a Bilić evaluation thread.

Just recently he indicated that changes would be made to the defence (we all knew weeks ago that Šimić would be dropped).

This is one aspect of his reign I don't like.

Part of Bilic's job is to keep opportunities open to all his players and to keep competition alive.

And the reason I don't like it is because it does the exact opposite of what you have said here.

I disagree that nothing will come of the 3 weeks as far as the starting XI is concerned. Those 3 weeks will be the longest period of time those players will have been in Bilic's hands.

He won't state it publicly (nor should he) but I am certain that Bilić will already know his preferred XI before we enter these three weeks. The kind of changes we need aren't made in this three week period anyway. I mean, you don't drop your 34 year-old, iconic CB 20 days before the tournament, let alone your captain.

The 3 weeks will be used to work on fitness, team tactics and hopefully pyschological preparation (ie. teaching Croats that the underdog tag is a good thing).

As a further example, in '98 Ciro only got things right with the Vatreni against the Romanians. Prior to that there was still a lot of uncertainty both defensively and in midfield. And we weren't the only ones...plenty of teams find themselves tinkering during the tourneys themselves. That's just part of the uncertainty of football.

Form and fitness concerns are different to going into tournaments with players in their mid-30's. We certainly didn't go into France '98 with any players in the XI who were "past it". Like I said, form and fitness dictated our line-up in '98 and eventually things clicked. However, the kind of uncertainty we have now in the team is neither normal nor is it necessary.

What matters is whether you're capable of reacting quickly and correctly.

Why not do things on our own terms?

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Tuco Ramirez

· #85 · Mar 29, 2008

For these qualifiers , I am expecting the worst, and hoping for the best.

Blast

· #86 · Mar 29, 2008

Quals for 2010 or the euros 2008?

Tuco Ramirez

· #87 · Mar 30, 2008

doh! i misspoke, just like Hilary.

i meant for this "tournament".

JureM

· #88 · Mar 30, 2008

croguy said:
doh! i misspoke, just like Hilary.

i meant for this "tournament".

So, Tuco, I guess you spoke before you shot.

Blast

· #89 · Mar 31, 2008

I guess I am the same when it comes to hopes and expectations. I just want to get past the group stages but I wont be too surprised if we faikl.

I think its just not wanting to climb too high because it hurts more when you fall!!

HajdukSplit

· #90 · Mar 31, 2008

don't know if I am the first to say this, but Croatia will not pass the group stages, I have little confidence in the team and as usual with my sports teams, pessimism is the way to go

Majstor Cevapa

· #91 · Apr 1, 2008

Who of you are going to Croatia's games for Euro. Will they occur in June, July, or August. My parents said I might be able to go with one of my friends while in BiH, but I would have to find someone to stay with, any takers?

Rupa

· #92 · Apr 1, 2008 (Edited)

I don't understand how anyone can be pessimistic, i see this as the best team we've had since the late 90's. I think our midfield and attack is the best we've had this decade.Okay it hurts that Eduardo in not there(understatement) but I am very optimistic offensively. I would say more so after the way we played against Scotland. I think Petric is our best striker but I thought he was the least effective last Wednesday. Budan left a very good impression with me. I see him starting with Petric up front(I hope). I would say even Klasnic looked quite good. Better than I had expected.
I think this group is up for the taking and I think its time for us to get out of the group stages. If not now then I really don't know when.

Opsajd

· #93 · Apr 1, 2008

Rupa said:
I
I think this group is up for the taking and I think its time for us to get out of the group stages. If not now then I really don't know when.

I guess you were just using a figure of speach but anyway as has been previously mentioned here, I agree that this generation in the norm is quite young and can only get better as time goes on, so there will be other tournaments where we can expect them to realisticly go further.

PanaSlaveBelupo

· #94 · Apr 1, 2008

^^^
Don't count on it. If they fail to impress, they will have bruised egos, for certain. Simic for all he has done and for as long as he has played was once quite young and inspirational. He had to have developed a few goofy traits along the way.

While I believe there are some exquisite players in this generation, it takes a special trainer to get them on the same page. I would not be surprised if there were a lot more fallout. Not saying it is likely, but always a possibility.

I would say now is the time.

Tuco Ramirez

· #95 · Apr 2, 2008

JureM said:
So, Tuco, I guess you spoke before you shot.

haha! sure did!

welcome to the forums rupa! Igraj Zadre!

I hope youre right rupa, but I really am expecting the worst. I remember the optimism we had when we were drawn with Japan and Australia at the WC. easy 6 , everybody said!! including me... :depress:
That wont happen again.

This time our NT must shoot , then talk!! learn from tuco!

Sulla

· #96 · Apr 2, 2008

A measured and well reasoned assessment of the current state of affairs...

http://www.sportnet.hr/index.aspx?page=nogomet_euro2008

Blast

· #97 · Apr 2, 2008

pretty much the vibe we have on the forum translated into a page of writing.

Good find sulla

grba2

· #98 · Apr 2, 2008

This time our NT must shoot , then talk!! learn from tuco!

Spot on bro!:thumbsup:

BTW, I have to be honest and say that my confidence has been damaged after these friendly's and the injury to Dudu. I pray nobody else gets injured and that the guys will be up for it when the tourney starts, the first game will be key.

croatian batman

· #99 · Apr 3, 2008

I think the England game got to there heads. I mean we heard for months about how wonderful we are. I think they feel like they proved something by winning the group while the real place to prove it is in the major tournaments.

Ero

· #100 · Apr 3, 2008

Another fine thread infiltrated by Neg-man and Bingoboy!!

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