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Which of the two fines is most pathethic?

  • The 600 Euros fine for racist behavior

    Votes: 6 40.0%
  • The 1500 Euros fine for saying the truth

    Votes: 9 60.0%
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Cachorro
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Discussion Starter #1
Nine hundred Euros is the distance between one fine and the other.

The Spanish Federation has fined Deportivo La Coruña 600 Euros for their supporters' racist attacks against Roberto Carlos, Real Madrid's leftback... and the Italian Federation has fined Lecce's Guillermo Giacomazzi 1.500 Euros for saying that he hadn't suffered a penalty, making the referee change his penalty call in Lecce's 1x0 victory over Messina this weekend. Yes, the honest gesture was punished more severely than the acts of racism – and we're left wondering which of the two Federations is more pathethic. :yuck:

In the match when Real Madrid defeated La Coruña 2x0 in the Riazor Stadium, everytime Roberto Carlos touched the ball he'd hear the supporters making "monkey" gestures and sounds. But instead of applying an exemplary fine to Deportivo, the Spanish Federation announced a laughable 600 Euros fine. The same procedure had already been used before against Albacete, Getafe, Atletico Madrid and Malaga, whose fans also had despicable racist behaviors in other La Liga matches.

After the heavy criticism, the Federation claimed that the fine was light because the offenses were included in an article that analyzes "light cases of contempt against referees and players". Now they're trying to pass an agreement, which would be signed by clubs, referees, players, managers and the council of sports, which will set tougher punishments for racist or xenophobic manifestations.

In the case of Lecce's player, the referee had to change his initial call because of the player's confession that he had suffered no penalty, but he expressed disgust at the player's attitude and gave him a yellow card for "unsporting behavior" – suggesting that Giacomazzi had DIVED inside the area before admitting that it wasn't a penalty, which makes NO sense whatsoever. :wth: :googly:

The referee's decision to punish the player had already attracted criticism from Messina's players and officials. And the Uruguayan player's sincerity was praised by the Italian media, who treated him as an example of ethics, so rare in today's football.
– I just told him it wasn't a penalty, because I hadn't even been touched – explained Giacomazzi, after the Serie A's 26th round. But that honesty apparently offended someone at the Italian Federation, and the player was fined a whopping 1.500 Euros for his gesture. :wallbang:

The hardest thing is to decide which of the two fines is most ridiculous. What do you think?
 

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Xtratime's Head of Humour 2007
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you couldn't make it up, didn't Robbie Fowler get given some fair play award when he did the same thing for Liverpool, even though the ref didn't overturn the penalty ?

I think the Depor fine is worse because that won't do anything to change the clubs outlook on racist fans and players like Bobby Carlos will continually be subjected to this vile persecution.
 

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Does anyone know what ordinary everyday offences in Spain bear similar fines to those handed out for the racist abuses? Is it comparable with a fine for spitting? Comparable with a fine for indecent exposure? Comparable with a fine for your dog sh1tting on the pavement?

Just to put the fines into context
 

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Canonized
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The other week they fined Atletico Madrid EURO 700.

If you add up the tally of the price of teh ticket, it consumes to 35 tickets sold if the price of the ticket is 20 EUROS.

So basically, we can conclude that the Spanish federation say it is ok to the whole stadium to abuse a player of different ethnic origin than them, as it will only cost 700 EUROS (you can cross the atlantic for a cheaper price than that) to any club that has many racist fans showing how primitive and low life they are.
 

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If the Spanish FA doesn't take enough action then it is up to UEFA to take action and I think we should have long since moved on from fines. Play behind closed doors, bans from UEFA competitions and if necessary a ban on events like the Olympics from being hosted in Spain and maybe a ban from the World Cup should make the Spanish take a different approach

But UEFA are just as feckin useless as any other Football "governing" body
 

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It's in teh FIFA statutes that they can ban clubs for being racist or even federations. FIFA should punish teh Spanish FA for being very easy going with racism.

Perhaps all foreigners should leave teh spanish league, and let all the boring spanish players play in the La LIga.... the league would definitly lose loads of sponsorship and lose total quality of football
 

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Cachorro
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Discussion Starter #7
I think the reason UEFA hasn't done jack shit yet is because the racism problem isn't limited to Spain, but also present in other centers like Italy and Germany, and UEFA doesn't want to pick fights with the "big" Euro clubs. Of course, one can argue that this expansion of racist behavior across the continent only makes things even more serious, and taking a firm stand against fan racism is more important than ever.

Ideally, of course Ze's idea is the best: non-caucasian players should simply leave La Liga in protest against the fans' racism. If these fans are so bothered by non-white foreigners, then let their teams be composed solely of mediocre aryans!, maybe then these fans will be happy. Ronaldinho Gaucho, Riquelme, Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo, Julio Baptista, Eto'o, Jorge Andrade, they should ALL begin looking for other leagues to play next season. Maybe that would motivate the Spanish Federation to take action.

These racist fans need to be registered and forbidden from entering football stadiums, period. Anything less than that is the same as doing nothing.
 

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Xtratime's Head of Humour 2007
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Garrincha said:
Ideally, of course Ze's idea is the best: non-caucasian players should simply leave La Liga in protest against the fans' racism. If these fans are so bothered by non-white foreigners, then let their teams be composed solely of mediocre aryans!, maybe then these fans will be happy. Ronaldinho Gaucho, Riquelme, Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo, Julio Baptista, Eto'o, Jorge Andrade, they should ALL begin looking for other leagues to play next season. Maybe that would motivate the Spanish Federation to take action.
I don't think that will ever happen though, it's ok for the top players because they will all get great money at other clubs but what about the not so good black players ? they will be taking a chance with their living.

and why should they go anyway, they should be allowed to play where they want if they are happy in all other life aspects, it's down to the authorities to sort it out
 

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Cachorro
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Discussion Starter #10
Of course it's not going to happen, Jern... but it would be the perfect reaction to the Federations' (not only Spain's but also UEFA and others) lack of action against racism. The players need to take a stand against this.

Alternatively, they could go on a strike! On a predetermined weekend, all players who are against racism (not only the colored ones) should collectivelly annouce that they won't enter the pitch in protest against racist fans. SOMEthing needs to be done to shake the federations off their complacency. Just wearing symbols of campaigns against racism on the team jerseys is meaningless; the people who are already against racism may sympathize but the racists are probably just laughing, because it doesn't affect their freedom to go to stadiums and scream racist insults. The federations probably like these "toothless" campaigns because they give the impression that something is being done, and business can go on as usual. These scumbag racists need to be banned from entering football stadiums FOREVER... I see no other solution.
 

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Xtratime's Head of Humour 2007
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if UEFA put pressure on the federations to play games behind closed doors when racism occurs you will see an amazing increase in security and these monkey noisemakers being thrown out and handed lifebans and taken to court and given big fines will become commonplace, that's the only reason it's gone away in England, action from the clubs and police work.
 

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Garrincha said:
I think the reason UEFA hasn't done jack shit yet is because the racism problem isn't limited to Spain, but also present in other centers like Italy and Germany, and UEFA doesn't want to pick fights with the "big" Euro clubs. Of course, one can argue that this expansion of racist behavior across the continent only makes things even more serious, and taking a firm stand against fan racism is more important than ever.

Ideally, of course Ze's idea is the best: non-caucasian players should simply leave La Liga in protest against the fans' racism. If these fans are so bothered by non-white foreigners, then let their teams be composed solely of mediocre aryans!, maybe then these fans will be happy. Ronaldinho Gaucho, Riquelme, Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo, Julio Baptista, Eto'o, Jorge Andrade, they should ALL begin looking for other leagues to play next season. Maybe that would motivate the Spanish Federation to take action.

These racist fans need to be registered and forbidden from entering football stadiums, period. Anything less than that is the same as doing nothing.
Several things to say, because probably most of you don't know the day by day of the Spanish football.

First of all, the problem is that Spain doesn't have any regulation about racism. You can not fine a club, if there is not a law/rule that backs it. As you said in your first post, the Spanish Government though to Council of Sports is having meetings with all the parts involved: players, clubs and referees. They're promoting a document to fight against racism and the fines will be increased a lot. In this article, Rafael Blanco, a member of the Council of Sports, says his opinion about it, and he talks about serious consequences.

http://www.abc.es/abc/pg050301/prensa/noticias/Deportes/Deportes/200503/01/NAC-DEP-069.asp

Sadly, we all know that the legal procedures are not as fast as we like them to be. But Liga and Government are acting.

Second, in Spain we all know about the constant corruption in the Spanish FA... corruption supported and promoted from FIFA. Angel Villar is in the Penal Court for several issues. I also wonder why FIFA doesn't move a finger against the main political guilty of the problem of racism: Villar. But the answer is quite easy, Villar is one of the Vicepresidents of FIFA and he has the total support of Joseph Blatter. He's also Vicepresident of UEFA supporting Johansson.

Villar is involved in several personal trips done with the money of the Spanish FA, FIFA and UEFA. I don't care about what happens in FIFA and UEFA, but the Spanish FA receives public funds.

So FIFA and UEFA are backing the person who is the main problem to finish with the problem.

Third, the problem is not reduced to Spain, as you said. Italy, France and Germany had problems in the last few years. Not going too far, 9 Chelsea fans were arrested in Barcelona some days ago for hooliganism and violent actions. Noone is free of these people. So it's necessary to take general decisions. UEFA talks a lot and does nothing. There are many clubs, even people (including some in XT, BTW), that support and promote the ultra groups. I know how hard it is to finish with them. Joan Laporta has received death threats for his fight against Boixos Nois. There are some political interests behind all this. It's knowns that the ultras of Real Madrid and Lazio are supported and promoted by neo-nazi organizations like Hammerskin, very dangerous. It's necessary a general commitment to finish with it.

Now, I think that you're talking as if all of us were racists. You said that all the non-white players should leave Spain. I understand it as an action of frustration and I am really ashamed and frustrated too, but maybe you should know the opinion of the players. All of them recognize that sometimes they have to hear the damn monkey chants, but they live here and what's going on here.

I really hope that clubs, players, refs and Government reach an ambitious agreement to finish with this shit.
 

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Jern Lizardhous said:
if UEFA put pressure on the federations to play games behind closed doors when racism occurs you will see an amazing increase in security and these monkey noisemakers being thrown out and handed lifebans and taken to court and given big fines will become commonplace, that's the only reason it's gone away in England, action from the clubs and police work.
You're right. Here everyone talk about the English example and I think that it should be the goal of the document that it's being prepared. I really hope an ambitious solution for it. The English example was used in the mid-90s to find a solution for the security inside the stadiums and the messures have worked quite well. All the Spanish stadiums must have cameras in the stadium, all seats, the fences disappeared, etc. I just hope that they give a further step now.

On the other hand, I don't expect anything from UEFA, because they're part of the problem, just as FIFA.
 

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The second one clearly. While the amount in the first fine is derisory, the decision to impose the fine is difficult to disagree with whereas the fine for Giacomazzi is utterly absurd.
 

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How about the players take legal action against the clubs themselves? If R. Carlos sued Deportivo for racial abuse now, given that the club has already been found to be in the wrong, surely he'd win and clean up?
 

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"oh no western europe has racial chants lets whien and cry", as i've said before, why does no one give a shit about the ultra-racist Eastern European fans? cus no one gives a shit about EE.

and 600 euros? wtf is that? i thought Spaniards were supposed to be well mannered and polite?
 

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Киевские скинхеды избили дипломата США
В Киеве был зверски избит дипломат США, афро-американец Роберт Симмонс. На американца напала большая группа скинхедов


Translation, a bunch of Dynamo Kiev skinheads beat up African American U.S. diplomat Robert Simmons on his trip to Kiev. who gives a shit though right?
 

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Cachorro
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Discussion Starter #20
Koeman4, thanks for the insight about the measures being discussed in Spain. :thmbup:

Koeman4 said:
Now, I think that you're talking as if all of us were racists. You said that all the non-white players should leave Spain. I understand it as an action of frustration and I am really ashamed and frustrated too, but maybe you should know the opinion of the players. All of them recognize that sometimes they have to hear the damn monkey chants, but they live here and what's going on here.

I really hope that clubs, players, refs and Government reach an ambitious agreement to finish with this shit.
I didn't mean that ALL Spaniards are racist, that would be an absurd generalization. I meant that if the Federation's idea of "taking action" is limited to giving low "symbolic" fines, the players might consider taking a stand against that complacency. But as you pointed out, there ARE some discussions about further measures, so let's hope they become a reality.

And Dmitry, I don't think anyone is dismissing the racism in Eastern Europe, racism is bad anywhere. We're just debating one Federation's pale "punishment" (if we can even call it that) to fans' racism, in contrast with another federation's preposterous punishment of a player who deserves praise for his honesty.
 
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