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Discussion Starter #1
EPL has great wingers in Robben, Duff, Giggs etc and box to box midfielders like Lampard, Gerrad. But they seem to lack
1) playmakers, say Zidane, Valeron, Rui Costa, Riquelme
2) creative attacking midfielder/withdrawn striker, say Totti, Aimar etc

Of course , there are exceptions. Bergkamp is a great withdrawn striker. Juninho and Zola ( ex EPL players) also come to my mind. Joe Cole played quite good recently. But still compared to La Liga or Serie A, creative players are rare in EPL.

IMO the lack of playmakers in EPL is
1) The style difference. EPL style is fast paced, physical and one touch football. While playmakers tend to hold the ball, slow down the tempo.

2) Formation
EPL teams prefer to play two wingers, therefore no space for playmakers for the reason of formation balance. ManUtd have played 2 wingers for years, 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 this year. Chelsea plays 4-3-3 too. Both play 2 wingers.

3) Work permit. Many creative players are from non-EU countries, especially south america. It's difficult to get work permit if they don't play for their NT frequently.


Don't get me wrong cause I have nothing against EPL. I like both wing attacking and attacking through the middle. It's a joy to watch Robben or Giggs ( at his peak). But somehow I feel that as a trend EPL teams heavily rely on wing attacking and pace, therefore lacks variation and a bit predictable. On the other hand, as a MILAN fan, I think MILAN are short of wing attacking players except Cafu and Serginho. Without Cafu, MILAN hardly threaten opponents from wings.

What's your thought on this?
Do you think there will be more creative players in EPL in future?
Can playmakers do well in EPL?
 

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EPL's style aint about playmakers, there aren any of them in the epl.
 

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No wonder Hugo Viana didn't do well at Newcastle... They're have recently been many articles on topics such as this in credited soccer magazines.
 

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A true hero
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Playmakers could play here, they just can't be the dwell on the ball type. A playmaker who can move the ball on quickly like Pablo Aimar would be fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Rob Edwards said:
Playmakers could play here, they just can't be the dwell on the ball type. A playmaker who can move the ball on quickly like Pablo Aimar would be fine.
I agree on Aimar.
He thinks and moves quickly, very mobile.
He can play great one touch football.
 

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The most common formation in England is 4-4-2 (flat). It is tough to play a playmaker in a flat 4 midfield. England has the least variation in formations compared to Italy, Spain and Germany.

These other leagues have the 4-1-2-1-2, 4-5-1, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-2-1, 3-4-1-2, 3-5-2 and other variants spread out in the teams comprising the league.

In England it is not that common to play these different formations. It is changing now with the arrival of foreign coaches like Benitez and Mourinho who try different schemes forcing the other established coaches to re-think and try something different.
 

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u r completely right the person who started this thread
 

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the EPL does have good 2 way midfielders and attacking midfielders though. The likes of Lampard, Scholes, Gerrard for example are the type of qualities in a midfielder which are needed to be successful.

Veron suffered at United simply because he wasnt used right. Zola, a playmaker at napoli and parma was used as a support striker rather than a player in the hole behind the forwards. It is obviously a problem for playmakers coming from abroad. The really skillful playmakers, eg. Zidane, wouldnt be able to fully utilise his skills due to the pace of the pace of the game there.
 

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Genjuro said:
IMO the lack of playmakers in EPL is
1) The style difference. EPL style is fast paced, physical and one touch football. While playmakers tend to hold the ball, slow down the tempo.

This is right. Bergkamp do well in EPL by playing support striker/playmaker but still can maintain the pace of the team 'maybe' because he tends not to hold the ball long. He rarely control the ball and put the ball under his feet like Valeron, Zidane or Riquelme do.

I agree that Aimar would do fine in EPL. This guy is fast and genius. ;)
 

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or maybe Riquelme do
maybe? pisarla is almost an argie invention man, more a Rio de La Plata invention, jajajaja no near mad, but was funny to the may be...
 

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IMO, EPL teams play usual with 4-4-2 flat, and they need two central midfielders, kind of Box to Box, the kind of players who defend and attack at the same time, like Xavi, Rochemback, Deco...etc the pure N10 doesn't do well in the league because these kind of players usual don't defend much...
 

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Honestly, I fail to grasp the idea that playmakers can only succeed in certain formations. I've seen many teams playing with playmakers in various formations in my life. Whether it is 442, 441, 352, or whatever formations. It doesn't matter what formation a team uses, if the style is right a playmaker can still succeed.

There are many reasons why playmakers cannot succeed in the Premiership. Someone says that the english like to play with wingers hence, playmakers cannot succeed. Well, it is true to a certain extent but other nations also play with wingers and at the same time they still have playmakers in their team. So, what's the fuss with the wingers?

To me the only explanation is the difference in style and philosophies. Latin countries like to play stylish possession football. We setup our attacks through some touches and dribbles in the middle. Instead of using wingers to stretch the opponents' defense, we prefer to limit the areas covered by the opponents through "containment". We do this by attacking the defense through the middle. It doesn't matter who initiate the attack - whether it is the playmakers or the defensive midfielders or the support strikers - the attacks will always start in the middle. When the containment is successful, we proceed to the next step which is threading killer through balls or passing wide to the wingers to setup crosses or shooting from distance. This is the style of football for latin countries which widely used in Argentina and Brasil. This is why playmakers are widely used in latin countries because they are usually the ones who setup the attacks. Just look at how Ronaldinho set up the Brasilian attack against england in WC2002 for Rivaldo's goal. Or if you wanna see Argie style, take a look at recent game between Argentina and Uruguay and observe all of Argentina's goals. These are few examples of latin-style attacks. Wingers are used as a luxury. We do like crosses but we do not like high ball crosses.

Whereas, in England they don't like to play possession football mainly because of their inability to keep the ball. They like to play out wide to stretch the opponents defense and wingers are their most dangerous weapon. The center of midfield is only used as shield for the defense or in other words the center of midfield main job is to recover the lost balls. Usually they just by pass the center of midfield when they want to setup an attack. The English also like to attack from the air. Their longballs and pin point crosses are very dangerous. Therefore it is not surprising that their strikers and centerbacks are very good in the air and their wingers are usually very good with highball crosses. They want to play fast because this is the only way their system will be effective. All these characteristics are just killing the playmaking game in my opinion.

This is the only explanation I have after decades of watching and playing football.

cheers.
 

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..and does not cover all, but is very complete, and are a good example of most used, of course in both sides are exceptions.

What I alway think is that a team that defies a more expand style, tactic, strategy, can take advantage for that..till everyone use it, so imagine a team that plays with more common SA style, he can take advantage for sure. The thing is if some team in England wants to do it, and more LIKES to do it, I like they have a clear tendency to a determine style, that allows exceptions, but exist.
Same happens with Brazil, Italy, Holland for name some, instead in Argentina, everyone with its own bible, from Menotti to Cuper, and all in between.
 

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Off course there are exceptions because we don't live in an "ideal" world. In an ideal world, Bielsa would have won a WC title because in an "ideal world" his system would've been implemented by the players to perfection. And also Menotti would have won his second WC with Maradona in his team. What I'm trying to say is the "general" style of latin football and English football are very different. We, latinos, like to dance with the ball whereas, the english prefer a direct approach. But like you said there are exceptions such as Arsenal which are an english club play an entertaining stylish football.

Talking about stylish football, Menotti is the only coach who I greatly admire because of his principle with stylish football. He didn't have a strict formation or system like Bielsa nor he had the intelligence of Bilardo. He only knows one thing and that is putting players in their most comfortable positions and playing with style. He didn't give much crap about the tactic either because he had Pasarella who gave the team guidance and leadership. But man, that team provided all you want to see in a football team. They did nutmegs, one-twos, pisadas and etc. etc. simply breathtaking.
 

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..yes but el Flaco takes the boat in the moment you never expect and left the ship sinking, never theless the team I enjoy the most, even being youth was the one he prepared for months with Duchini I think, the Youth NT of 79, that was breathtaking, they even played in a speed I do not see nowadays, an with an incredible flair, sadly there started Diego/Diaz problems...

Back in topic, anything is possible, the thing is that it must be arm a TEAM to make it work, not one or two aisolate players playing one thing, and the rest another...
 
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