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It's incredible how badly Brazil and Argentina have been playing lately.

No ideas, no flair, no combinations, no short passes.. it's as if both teams totally lost their identity.

FUERA!
 

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Argentina look totally lost without Riquelme despite having Messi and Aguero there
Says a lot about Riquelme but more about Basile, doesn't it? Hope thing click soon for them.
 

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Basile is a dumb ass........he never learnt his lesson.......he really did basic mistake like players selection..............he didn't have any backup plan if his original game plan didn't work........

I won't get surprised if Argertina only qualify after play-off like he did in WC '94. Now he really relies upon JRR, which he shouldn't do that and reflect what happened in '94 when Maradonna got banned, Argie went out of WC.............
 

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Rei Brasileiro
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I agree they both suck and all....
but I just want to remind the world that the South American qualifiers are the toughest in the world. A 1-0 loss to Chile away isnt so bad. And a win and a tie in 2 rounds of play is not bad either, in fact its whats expected for the top teams (a win at home, and a tie away).

just wanted to throw that out there before we all agree that they both suck.
 

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It's incredible how badly Brazil and Argentina have been playing lately.

No ideas, no flair, no combinations, no short passes.. it's as if both teams totally lost their identity.

True - they are becoming European.
 

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The coaches are to blame for sure but I think the qualification system also has a lot to with the uninspired performances of Argentina and Brasil. There are simply way too many games in their group, they can lose quite a few of them and still qualify. So I reckon a lot of the players do not bother to give their best in every game, thinking that due to being so much better than the other teams on paper they will still qualify eventually.
 

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Brasil lineup on paper is not so bad, I blame more the players that don´t pass the ball to team mates that are open. For instance many times Maicon was open and Kaka decides to drible, same thing happened when Mancini went right.

This generation is pathetic.
 

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Rei Brasileiro
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There are simply way too many games in their group,
There are 18 games, but they are more difficult games. You never want to leave to the later stages. Thats why this is the toughest WC qualifying region.
 

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There are 18 games, but they are more difficult games. You never want to leave to the later stages. Thats why this is the toughest WC qualifying region.
You might not want to, but you can afford to leave to the latest stages which would be harder to do if you had less games to play. And exactly having more competition - i.e. eveyone can lose points, actually helps Brazil and Argentina lose motivation and not give their best all the time - they are probably certain that other contenders will lose points at some, too. How exactly woudl splitting the teams into two groups would change the toughness of qualifying anyweay, considering the same teams will play? It will merely make it more diffcult to recover after a bad start and it might motivate the stars more. Best motivation would of course be, not qualifying but I don't see this happening with the 18 games system.
 

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Watched both games and was shocked at how clueless both teams looked going forward.

In Brazil's case, I just don't think this generation of players is up to the high standards set by past players. They have no striker in the same universe as Ronaldo. And while they have some very talented attacking midfielders (Kaka, Diego) they don't seem to be able to fit into a system together, perhaps that's Dunga's fault though.
 

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I watched Argentina - Uruguay (but missed the Chile match last night) and some of Argentina's play was excellent at times. They're not going to play beautiful football all the time. One game doesnt change everything, and prior to the Uruguay match they also played some good stuff.

Basile is a coach with a definite plan, which unfortunately cannot be said for Dunga. I think this current crop of Brasilian players are very good, there's huge potential there to make a side capable of winning the World Cup. From the games I've seen, the core problem seems to be in central midfield. Dunga has no excuse considering the players he has at his disposal.

Anyway, it's still a long way to go for both teams. Remember how Brasil qualified for 2002 and what happened there.
 

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Adriano is looking very good lately Adu, I think the biggest problem is the attitude we don´t play as a team. People don´t run off for space and the few times people do either Robinho or Kaka decides to out dribble the competition its as if they are playing alone.

I guess all the sucking up of Kaka being the Saviour and Robinho being great is too much for their small talent and stupid heads.

Maicon is turning into a wonderful choice and our players hardly use him, Kaka and Robinho simply ignored his runs and we definetly need Kleber moving more up, he does not look like his self in the NT and with his age I hoped Dunga would bet on Marcelo.
 

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Adriano is very good yes, but Brazil have produced great strikers in recent history. Ronaldo, Romario etc. I don't think he's anywhere those. Your right Maicon is great but not used to his full.

Gilberto Silva is horrible, I have no idea how he still gets in the team.
 

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Its not as if they're playing flair football but conceding too many goals. They're both barely attacking and trying to be efficient but failing at it. They should stick to what they're best at against inferior teams.
 

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Rei Brasileiro
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I guess all the sucking up of Kaka being the Saviour and Robinho being great is too much for their small talent and stupid heads.
this is an exagerration. They are both class players, but the current system forces them to individuality. there are no players to pass to in this slow, motionless team. A pass to running Maicon can only be done so many times in a game... and they tried it 1000 times. Not only that, reallying on crosses from Maicon all the time is also a problem. Where is the penetration in the middle?
 

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This is a different era in football, Argentina and Brazil can't just outplay teams on talent alone anymore. Tactics come first nowadays and Brazil especially haven't been the most attractive side for a while now. It's Spain then everyone else in that department.
 

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this is an exagerration. They are both class players, but the current system forces them to individuality. there are no players to pass to in this slow, motionless team. A pass to running Maicon can only be done so many times in a game... and they tried it 1000 times. Not only that, reallying on crosses from Maicon all the time is also a problem. Where is the penetration in the middle?
I saw many times Mancini, Maicon, Kleber and Elano open but Robinho and Kaka insisted on solo runs. And I don´t think passing 100 times to Maicon if he is open a bad thing, thats what we used to do with RC and Cafu and it worked great.

Yes my comment was an exageration but its not so far from what the truth might be.
 

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Brasil lineup on paper is not so bad, I blame more the players that don´t pass the ball to team mates that are open. For instance many times Maicon was open and Kaka decides to drible, same thing happened when Mancini went right.

This generation is pathetic.
I don't know if pathetic is the right word, but I think it's the worst Brazilian team I can remember.

Brazil were getting "European" since long ago and USA 94 is a proof of it, but the talent was high anyway. Now there are lots of average players there that look weird wearing that shirt.

Seriously, I can not remember the last time I saw Brazil playing "nice". I saw them being effective and efficient, but "nice"? I can't remember, honestly. The "jogo bonito" thing is more a commercial slogan than a reality.
 
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