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Discussion Starter #1
Chievo boss curses luck after penalty farce

Monday 28th January 2002

Chievo boss Luigi Del Neri was furious with the referee for awarding Juventus two contentious penalties as his side lost more ground in the title race.

"I am really angry," said Del Neri after the 3-1 defeat at the Bentegodi stadium.

"The first decision was simply ridiculous. I saw it very clearly, but I don't want to say too much on the matter. For the second one, our player may have touched the ball with his hand, but that was only after Pavel Nedved gave him a shove.

"I believe that a penalty should only be awarded if there is a clear infringement. That was not the case in either instance," insisted the Chievo coach.

Alessandro del Piero earned Juventus their first penalty shortly after half-time when he was adjudged to have been fouled by Chievo goalkeeper Christiano Lupatelli, but the Italy forward saw his tame shot comfortably saved.

Del Piero admitted he was embarrassed that the referee had given a penalty in the first place. "It was never a foul," he said. "Did I miss the penalty on purpose? That would be a convenient excuse, but the truth is that I just didn't hit it properly."

The defeat leaves Chievo ten points behind leaders Roma with a game in hand, but Del Neri claimed that his players had not let their standards drop.

"I told them after the game that I thought they had done really well," he explained. "We're not in a crisis, we're just lacking a bit of luck.

"I think that, despite the penalty decisions, Juventus deserved to win," he admitted. "But we shouldn't lose track of where we are. This time last year we were battling to get out of Serie B – the situation is quite different now."

Juventus are now in third place, just three points off the top, after completing a double over the Verona side.

Their first win over Chievo came courtesy of another controversial last-minute penalty, but coach Marcello Lippi was keen to deflect attention away from the officials.

"When we won 3-2 at the Stadio Delle Alpi earlier in the season, everyone was talking about the penalty that we got in the last minute, but nobody mentioned that David Trezeguet had a perfectly good goal disallowed before that," he declared.

"Referees make mistakes, but we have to accept their decisions. We are playing with more confidence now and that is encouraging. It's been an up and down campaign for us so far, but I think we're finding our consistency," added the Juventus boss.

_______________________

It's always the same with Juve, isn't it... :(
 

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When i saw DP's 1st penalty, i thought he had missed it on purpose seeing how lame the shot was, more like a pass. Then i saw his face, and realised it wasn't on purpose. i thought the 1st incident wasn't a penalty as the goalie touched the ball, and luckily for Cheivo Juve missed. But the 2nd incident was clearly a handball, so Juve deserved to win 3-1.
 

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VERDI said:
_______________________

It's always the same with Juve, isn't it... :(
Yepp, teams lose to Juve and the have make excuses. It goes on and on.

Besides that, the ref made a mistake. Consensus. Juve didn't take advantage of it.

Del Neri also says:

"For the second one, our player may have touched the ball with his hand, but that was only after Pavel Nedved gave him a shove."

"I believe that a penalty should only be awarded if there is a clear infringement. That was not the case in either instance," insisted the Chievo coach.

Anyone who saw the game knows that Moro blocked a cross in the box. Doubtless. A clear and justified penalty.
 

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First of all- I think we should believe Del Piero when he says he didn't miss on purpose. For my part- I said "oh no" when I saw the first penalty, as I was so certain what would eventually happen here and in the media. I'm not against players diving to win their teams points- it's unsportsmanlike but I don't care. I doubt Venezia's players were more embarrassed than happy for Maniero's stunt yesterday.

On this incident- I'm just pleased it didn't have a fundamental baring on the match. Del Piero did miss it, and Lupatelli wasn't shown the red card (which was strange, and De Santis even gave him a yellow to make it even more laughable).
I have yet to see anyone but Del Neri say the second PK wasn't fair. His comment that Nedved pushed Moro is just... well. It was a cross with two attackers in the box- Lanna tries to cover for it with his legs and body, and unfortunately for him- the ball hits him square on his hand. He's not trying to keep his hand close to his body or anything- they're wailing around, and it was just so obvious. Tough luck for Chievo, but you cannot question that one.

On the field itself- De Santis was genereously distributing free kicks both ways, and besides the first PK which was indeed rediculous- I don't think the refereeing was tainted.

In the end- we won 3-1, and deserved to win even without the PK's in Del Neri's own words. Let's not make a big fuss out of this one. Just ignore the more venemous posts here. Steph,xtc and Mikey will edit those as they come along.

Ciao.
 

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Re: Re: Del Piero embarrassed over penalty

JKane said:
Yea, always the same. Some can't accept that Juve isn't bribing anyone. Envy, Verdi?
Yes, I sure do envy Juventus number of penalties. I wish Parma got the one we deserved too though.

Glen, Maniero admitted the penalty wasnt clear. He was as honest as DP.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
There's one difference. Venezia maybe get this kind of call their way maybe once or twice per season while they get this kind of call against them maybe 10 times per season. For Juventus it's more than reversed. Maybe 15 "lucky" calls and 1 unlucky. This is what makes italian football unfair.
 

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Not dismissing that as completely untrue (although magnified) VERDI- do you dispute that the Moro handball was a legit (albeit unlucky for Moro) penalty ?
You know the game too well for that to be possible I think, and thus- we won 3-1, and Del Piero didn't convert on the wrong PK. Hence it had no significance for the match. That isn't to say the first PK wasn't wrong, but it's one that won't matter for anyone.

I can't help but feeling happy on one level if you're right, as Toro's penalty against us is then the one call well get against us this season ;).

Ciao.
 

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The bottom line, a handball in the box is a penalty no matter what so what is the point of discussion? Moro's was as unfortunate and tragical as Kluivert's in the Uefa Cup semi final last year, as Abel Xabier's in the Euro semi final. All of these handballs changed the direction of the ball significantly and all of them occured with hands outstretched.
 

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Chile 2 Italy 2 France 98 ...Chile was winning the game..in the 2nd half when it looked like Chile was going to get the 3 points..Baggio sent a ball into the box that a Chilean defender(Fuentes) "Barely" and "Unintentionally" deflected with his downed right arm............
It was in the penalty box and it was called a penalty...I still fume over it 'cause the defender never, ever intended to deflext the ball..But it was in the box and @ the referees discretion he called the penalty which ultimately gave Italy the 2x2 tie.
Once in the box its up to the ref !!!!!!

;):lala::glasses:
 

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I am a big Juventus fan since my friend played for Juve for two season and he is a HUUUUUUGE FAN. But fair is fair. Referees are against Chievo. Not only when they play Juve. Just remember Milan match. And few others.

Juve doesn't need referees to help them win. I am not saying this referee was paid... But two penalties in one game (one surely didn't exist, the second one was very dubious)... That's not good.
 

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Some words on the situation by the invincible James Sultana...

===

A lot has already been said in Italy about yesterday`s game. In the live TV
interviews after the game, seeing Chievo coach Del Neri visibly upset,
those making the interviews tried to put words in his mouth, forcing him to
say that Juve stole the match or that they won it with De Santis` help.
Admirably, Del Neri was intelligent enough not to fall in their trap, and
although he did criticise the referee, he also said that Juve won the game
because they made full use of all the chances they had. The problem with De
Santis is that he is still remembered for that famous Cannavaro goal which
he disallowed in a Juve-Parma game a couple of seasons ago. To make the
situation worse, he was also involved in the Lecce - Juve game earlier this
season when the free-for-all occured near the end of the game and in which,
according to the media, he failed to see Trezeguet hit a Lecce player. So,
as you might easily understand, the media were looking and praying for the
first pro-Juve decision in this game to make headlines of it. And De
Santis, being in my opinion one of the worst Serie A referees, duly obliged
to their requests.

A lot has been said about the penalty episodes. At first glance, it appears
that the first penalty was totally inexistent, while the second one was
more a case of not to give. Lets take a look at them :

In the first penalty, the move started when a Juve clearance found Del
Piero onside near the half-way line. Del Piero had a clear way towards goal
until he overhit it and gave the opportunity to Lupatelli to palm it away.
Obviously couldn`t stop his run instantaneously, and hence made impact with
the keeper (but not looking for a foul). Now, since this episode was on a
quick counter attack, the referee was caught around 40 metres away from the
action. The referee decided that there was contact between the two without
noticing the deflection made by the keeper, and hence opted for a penalty.
However, in this episode he made a series of mistakes, which if analysed
properly show that at the end Juve were actually DAMAGED and not helped
from this episode. The errors are :

(a) there was never a penalty - Lupatelli was on the ball before Del Piero
and deflected the ball away from the Juventino`s path - to the referee`s
case one can mention that he was caught far from the action and that the
assistant (probably obstructed by the keeper) didn`t help him at all.
(b) given that in his opinion it was a penalty, he HAD to send off the
Chievo goalkeeper as he was the last defender and it was a clear
goal-scoring chance. This is even what Lupatelli thought, as just as De
Santis gave the penalty he took off his gloves and started to walk away. De
Santis, making the second mistake, opted for a yellow card - hence if it
was a penalty, Juve were denied a man-advantage
(c) the biggest mistake of the three !! : even if De Santis thought that in
his opinion Lupatelli had fouled Del Piero, he shouldn`t have whistled
immediately. From his position, which was by now about 30 metres from the
move, he SHOULD have seen clearly that the ball had rolled in Trezeguet`s
path and the the Juve attacker had no defender next to him : the two Chievo
defenders were one in line with Lupatelli and one running towards goal -
what Trezeguet did with the ball is something which you will hardly see
again, as it is in the interest of those who manipulate the media to hide
this part. TREZEGUET LOBBED THE BALL INTO THE ROOF OF THE NET, IN A PLACE
WHERE EVEN IF THE REFEREE HADN`T WHISTLED, NO CHIEVO DEFENDER COULD HAVE
EVER REACHED IT !!
Hence, had De Santis acted on FIFA`s orders to wait and see how the move
develops before taking action, Juve would have actually scored ! So instead
of getting advantage play and hence the goal, Juve were given the penalty.

The second penalty was one of those cases which a referee might give and
might not give. Nedved won the ball cleanly from the Chievo defender (Moro)
and ran towards the goal-line. The two player were shoulder to shoulder and
hence at a very close distance. Nedved attempted to cross the ball and the
defender at that same instance , trying to block it, extended his foot and
hand, both in the same movement. Now a penalty for a handball is not given
when a defender is either covering vital body organs with his hand, either
is so close to the action in a way not to give him time to react, or else
the ball hits his arm but his arm movement is part of a fluid body movement
(example, to make a sliding tackle, the arm movement is necessary to propel
the body). In this episode, some could have seen it as if the defender`s
arm movement was part of his running movement and some could have seen it
as if he stuck it out intentionally.

In my view, if De Santis did help Juve, it wasn`t in this episode but in a
tackle by Nedved, which was a very crude one and which probably was worth a
direct red, and for which the player got a yellow, and for a second yellow
which he might have given to Del Piero (Lippi noticed that Del Piero was
treading dangerous grounds and took him off).
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Del Neri in Chievo conspiracy claim

Monday 28th January 2002

Gigi Del Neri claimed that Serie A referees are victimising Chievo following the 3-1 defeat to Juventus on Sunday.

"The refs book my players for sighing," the coach said. "Juve were left completely unpunished for serious fouls. We got booked whatever we did."

Del Neri was furious with two contentious penalties as his side lost more ground in the title race. "I am really angry," he said after the home defeat .

"The first decision was simply ridiculous. I saw it very clearly, but I don't want to say too much on the matter. For the second one, our player may have touched the ball with his hand, but that was only after Pavel Nedved gave him a shove."

Despite the recent slump in form, Chievo remain fourth and on course for a place in Europe. Del Neri has been linked with a move to Parma at the end of the season but remains tight-lipped over his future.

"I am not God, so I can't be in more than one place at one time," Del Neri, who is also reportedly being tracked by Juventus and Barcelona, said at the beginning of this month.


_________________________________

Yes, it's always the same with me, Mikey. You know why? Because it's always the same with Juve....

Anyway, De Santis is nothing but a big pile of sh!t. I should have seen this coming.
 

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Hello dearest VERDI....

Of course you did not comment on the legitimacy of the second penalty; nor did you comment on whether the first one affected the results, nor have you given us reason to believe you have any thoughts on De Santis (poor as he may be) not allowing Trez to score on the rebound from DP's missed dribble or the fact that he should/could have given Lupatelli a red card if he deemed it a penalty. Those things of course are beneath you.

You're insensed that a bad call giving Juve a penalty with no significance to it whatsoever was called. You are insensed because you do not believe this should happen, and because it happens to Juve more than most other teams. We KNOW that.

However- you also know that you're the most frustrating little haemorhoid anyone could ever get up their a$$ . A game we deservedly won- you only come around to *****. You quote Del Neri who has only been to keen on taking the blatantly wrong penalties his team has gotten against less publicised opponents. No doubt he has been shorthanded against Milan and Juve- but it isn't our fault, and you DO know the policy of Xtratime on these issues. A Del Neri who believes the distribution of yellow cards was horrendous. Chievo 3- Juve 2 with one of Chievo's yellows being the wrong yellow for Lupatelli. This of course only happens to Juve... but hey... riddle me this- how come Chievo is the team getting more cards than any other team (save Verona). Funny it's only an ISSUE against media darlings Juve... or did a "fact" stop to die in your throath on that score ? Maybe it's a great booster for the media to slander Juve ? It's certain that there are many dimwitts on the take for it....

If you have something to say- say it in an orderly fashion. One where we can digest your argument, and where you can realistically expect sombre answers. Just pasting articles with interviews with the losing coach doing the serie A thing of applying pressure to get a better angle next time isn't convincing any of us. Moreover- it makes quite a few of us bitter, and prone to simply assult you. There really isn't a need for that, but as you see it's the consequence.

Finally- let me say in advance- that your stance that big teams in serie A gets more close calls than the small ones is well taken, and surely true. Tell me this isn't the case in Sweden because it sure as hell is in Denmark- and every other league I've ever followed. Still- you don't think Udinese is being "helped" just because they're the ones receiving the most penalties right ? I think you don't, but Juve getting two penalties in one game was just too much for you. Never mind that it didn't change the outcome of the game. You- the right honorable VERDI, Champion of the persecuted and morally standout...

Gather your minions and start your crusade man- but please take a left at the pretentiousness turnpike just before entering this forum.

Ciao.
 

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hey hey hey...let's relax over here. Anyone knows that trying to argue with Verdi when it concerns Juve is a lost cause, so just forget about it and argue with him on something else otherwise you will just frustrate yourselves.
 

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That's one of the major problems, people dont seem to LOOK to see where the referee is positioned. But can you really blame people for hating Juve? It's human nature, we all hate something that is better and more succefull than us, just go and ask 3/4 of Serie A clubs and supporters, better yet, ask half the people in here!
 

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Well, if a certain Serie A team is relegated this year, HOPEFULLY the postings of a certain forum member will decrease...

Just wishful thinking there.
 
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