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Discussion Starter #1
Don't know if anyone's read it, but there's some interesting things in it. Some of what he says doesn't belong on a football thread, like his general criticism of the Scottish Executive, but he's spoken out against Jack McConnel and his "Scotland's shame" soundbites.

"I believe it was direspectful to call it 'Scotland's shame'. I don't think he took on board the work that is going on behind the scenes. Speaking on behalf of Rangers, we have done a helluva lot of work in improving the situation. If you look over the last 10 years there has been a massive improvement and both Celtic and Rangers fans should be applauded. I thought it was a bit of a knee-jerker. I think it's a far deeper-rooted situation and I think to have called Rangers and Celtic 'Scotland's shame' after one football game was disappointing to say the least. I don't know why he made the point. He can only answer that himself but I think the statement was made with not all the relevant facts in front of him."

I agree with most of what he's said there. Seemed a bit opportunistic of McConnel and i've no idea why that match in particular warranted such a response from the Executive. I believe the improvement he refers to is in terms of arrests made on match days. No doubt he has the figures to back this improvement up, but i've been going to Ibrox since 1991 and I honestly haven't noticed any difference in the behaviour of the fans. In terms of actions, i've never really witnessed bad behaviour, and the same songs are still being sung. How do you measure progress with regards to sectarianism at football matches?

The article also says that Murray will be contributing to an upcoming Panorama programme. There are no definate details as to what the programme will contain, but it'll be based on something to do with the sectarianism and the Executive's aproach to it, I think. The issue of Rangers pre-match entertainment is likely to come up. The article says that this entertainment can, "sound suspiciously like a flute band in full flow." Murray has this to say;

"What do people want us to play? What flag do you want us to put up? We are Scottish and we are proud to be British. That's my belief. So we better watch who we offend because we say that? I don't see the problem in that. Whatever music we play, people, for their own ends, will put an interpretation on it. Why should we be apologetic for our history as a club? What we should do is improve some of the things. Not signing Catholics was wrong. We've rectified that and now sometimes we are going to games where there are more Catholics in the Rangers team than the Celtic one. We don't get applauded for that, but then that's positive and it's better to find a negative thing to write about."

Have to say I don't know what the flute band thing is supposed to be. I would've thought there would be a lot more negative publicity around us if we were playing flute music through the PA system. As for the Rule Britannia Dambuster's stuff, it's not to my personal taste because I consider myself totally Scottish, but Murray is correct. As a club we are British, and I see no real harm in playing this kind of thing. I'd rather we didn't, but I wouldn't classify it as offensive.

Without wanting to go over old ground too much, anyone got any comments?


He talks about other things in the article, but those are probably the parts that will attract most interest. On another note, Murray comments on the infamous Alistair Donald's £10 million. He says the deal is not dead and that he'll be meeting Donald in the future to take things further.

He also talks about Ricksen saying that the club knocked back "quite a substantial sum" from Everton two days before the window closed. Talks will apparently resume this week regarding a new deal. He reiterates the stuff about spending whatever we take in, and no more.
 

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I wonder why he didn't give the interview to a Scottish paper. Anyway, I'm glad he's finally come out and talked about this nonsense.

If sectarianism magically disappeared tomorrow then the neds would just find another excuse to cause trouble.
 

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Like Angle I consider myself Scottish before British. That is where my problem lies with this. When Murray says "We are Scottish and we are proud to be British." I think that is contradictory. The reason being is they don't play Scottish songs at Ibrox, you don't see anyone wearing Scottish NT tops and you rarely see anyone flying Scottish flags. The songs played are more associated with England than Scotland so the priorities are wrong.

Both sides of the old firm look to be actively putting some measures in place to tackle the sectarianism but I believe it's not enough. Then again it is more deep rooted than that but I'd still dish out lifetime bans to anyone caught doing it. If both halves of the Old Firm are doing that then there is nowhere for these guys to go. Then Jack McConnell can keep his nose out of the football and concentrate on where the real problems are- in the streets, schools, etc.

McConnell is wading in 100 years too late and in my own view doing more harm than good. It was wrong of him to suddenly react after one game. As Murray says it was a knee jerk reaction and I doubt his motives.
 

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I see Rangers have produced a new range of OFFICIAL club t-shirts with the slogan "Rule Britannia" plastered over them now.

Are there any depths your club won't stoop to appease the knuckle-draggers among your support exactly?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
King_Henrik said:
I see Rangers have produced a new range of OFFICIAL club t-shirts with the slogan "Rule Britannia" plastered over them now.

Are there any depths your club won't stoop to appease the knuckle-draggers among your support exactly?
We're a British club, are we not? I fail to see what seeing yourself as British has got to do with being a knuckle-dragger. I won't be rushing out to buy one, but I wouldn't condemn everyone who does.

It brings us back to this whole one rule for Celtic and another for everyone else argument. Why are Celtic allowed to sell Republic of Ireland tops in their OFFICIAL shops when Rangers can't sell merchandise branded with the Union Jack and such?
 

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Angle_eyes said:
Why are Celtic allowed to sell Republic of Ireland tops in their OFFICIAL shops when Rangers can't sell merchandise branded with the Union Jack and such?
Why do Rangers sell the away Orange shirt of their Chinese feeder team but not the home Green one?
 

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Angle_eyes said:
We're a British club, are we not? I fail to see what seeing yourself as British has got to do with being a knuckle-dragger. I won't be rushing out to buy one, but I wouldn't condemn everyone who does.

It brings us back to this whole one rule for Celtic and another for everyone else argument. Why are Celtic allowed to sell Republic of Ireland tops in their OFFICIAL shops when Rangers can't sell merchandise branded with the Union Jack and such?
The Republic of Ireland strip is sold because they, like Celtic, have a sponsorship deal with UMBRO - it's also a seller in the stores because the colours match that of our team, and believe it or not, is no more than a sporting garment, unlike the political propaganda on sale inside your club's official stores. I was under the impression that Rangers were supposed to be a football club?

Between this and your pre-match last night of the proms charades it's not too difficult to see where Murray's motivations lie. If the media in this country have any competence then they'll get straight onto this for what it is.

I'm also curious to find out what the handful of nationalists among the Rangers support think of having their political viewpoints dictated to by what is supposed to be their 'football club'?
 

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It's very simple. How many Rangers fans would by a green Shenzhen Jianlibao shirt? How many Rangers fans would buy a green anything and how many Celtic fans would buy a blue shirt? There is nothing sinister there.

I don't agree with the "Rule Britannia" range but that's just my own view. It's Scottish people who'll be mostly buying this stuff and as such they are British whereas with the Irish shirts there are alot of people who've never even been to Ireland buying them but claim some kind of Irish heritage down the tree somewhere, all Scots can do that if they go back far enough.

I'd prefer to see Rangers move away from it. I'd like to see them sell Scottish themed merchandise. I'd rather see saltires than Union Jacks. If they are going to continue with it then at least make it half and half between the two- Scottish and British.
 

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I have a few blue shirts, most notably the Dublin GAA jersey, and we sing 'come on you boys in blue' :eekani:

I took a wander onto follow follow a while back and couldnt stop laughing because the majority of rangers fans would not only not wear anything green but would not allow the colour in their house either......lol

It must be terrrible though having to watch your team play on a green surface aswell :howler:
 

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There is always blue grass :thmbup:

I know what you mean. I have lots of green shirts and it's not something that bothers me a bit. I don't know if we are a majority or a minority though.

I've not looked at the follow follow site, I get my laughs on the CSA site- the funniest thing is they actually want to be taken seriously. :dielaugh:
 

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Some of the Rangers shops sell Scottish themed merchandise too (scarfs, flag, lion rampant t-shirts, the Scotland top etc).

I'm not particularly a fan of some of the stuff on sale in the club shops, but i don't quite see why it's some dark and evil political propaganda just because a t-shirt may have Rangers on it along with a Union flag or something similiar. Not only is it the countries flag but the blue, white and red is part of the clubs colours.

Of course when another team sticks some flags on stuff, sells football tops from other countries then those are just a sporting garments that don't mean anything!
 

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1. Mince, as far as I'm aware and I have some proof although no conclusive the Shenzhen home top is Orange. That's certainly the primary colour worn in the terraces and they also had some Orange tifo stuff going on to. Maybe you got your wires crossed but I'd be interested to see where the info came from :)

2. Scottish & British stuff are both sold in the Rangers shop so it more than caters for everyone. Just as an example we recently released a skip hat which is navy and on the skip it has the Union Jack going over it diagonally. This is also available with a Saltire. We're selling Rangers branded goods with slogans on them that IMO relate to the club. We are British and on the whole we are proud of it. I don't think you can quite equate that to selling the jersey of a foreign nation in your shops. Not that I care you must understand, just don't try and take the moral high ground. You are welcome to sell whatever you feel will sell best within reason.

3. King Henrik I've only read a few of your posts but I can already tell I'm gonna have some fun with ya :D So basically you don't think Rangers should be allowed to play pro-British music pre-match despite playing on British shores in front of British fans as a British team? You think the media should take Murray to task on this? I'm assuming you will be even more actively against Celtic playing Irish music on British shores in front of predominantly British fans(technically)?

Play what you like, it's your choice but don't be singing along with the PA system to Fields of Athenrye then come on here and tell us what a disgrace it is that we play patriotic music. To summerise you want a British team who have always been located on British shores to stop playing British music but are quite happy that an Irish team located on British shores plays Irish music? The mind really does boggle :rolleyes:

Now to that Murray article. One thing that surprised me was Murray saying not signing Catholics was wrong. Of course it was but does David Murray know that we signed RC's way before MoJo? If not why not? This is one myth that needs to be laid to rest for good. Apart from that he done a good job defending the club but it's not often that he does. The dignified silence from Ibrox has gone on too long.
 

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The point is that Rangers are being used as a platform for political propaganda. In the highly sensitive environment that is the West of Scotland where this issue is concerned then it's wholly irresponsible to be producing official club products with "Rule Britannia" written on them, and potentially dangerous too.

It's akin to Celtic suddenly deciding to honour their Irish roots by producing merchandise with the slogan "Tiochfaidh Ar La" embroidered onto them. I can just imagine the outburst from all and sundry were that to happen.
 

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If Celtic want to honour their Irish roots with TAL slogans then Scotland is not the place to do it. I don't like the pro-Brit thing but I do accept it is at least in the relevant place.
 

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King_Henrik said:
The point is that Rangers are being used as a platform for political propaganda. In the highly sensitive environment that is the West of Scotland where this issue is concerned then it's wholly irresponsible to be producing official club products with "Rule Britannia" written on them, and potentially dangerous too.

It's akin to Celtic suddenly deciding to honour their Irish roots by producing merchandise with the slogan "Tiochfaidh Ar La" embroidered onto them. I can just imagine the outburst from all and sundry were that to happen.
So now you're equating the title of a well known widely sung patriotic song to the slogan of a well known terror group and it's political wing?(Not the place for this discussion I'm guessing but a point that had to be made) :rolleyes:

It's very hard to think who could be offended by the RB range. Even the pro-independance Scots I know don't hate Britain or people who put their Britishness first. Maybe that's it, maybe only those who hate these shores who will be offended.
 

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If you're a nationalist then you're very ideals politically would be against Unionism. Like i said already, i'm curious to gauge the opinion of the few nationalist Rangers fans and what they think about having anti-Scottish political propaganda rammed down their throats by their very own 'football club'.

Tiochaidh Ar La is an Irish political slogan, just like Rule Britannia is a British one - if Celtic decided to follow in your club's route and honour our club's identity through political messages then this would be the symbol used.

Or do pro-Irish political sentiments offend you?
 

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If the club decided to stick to the club spritiual identity and take a pro-Irish stance then the first move would be to stick Celtic Park on a trolley and wheel it over to Irish soil. A pro-Irish stance is also an anti-British stance so it's a bit contradictory to be playing that football on British soil and taking an anti-British stance. If Ibrox was situated in Ieland and they were belting out "Rule Britannia" then I could see your point but it is not.
 

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King_Henrik said:
If you're a nationalist then you're very ideals politically would be against Unionism. Like i said already, i'm curious to gauge the opinion of the few nationalist Rangers fans and what they think about having anti-Scottish political propaganda rammed down their throats by their very own 'football club'.

Tiochaidh Ar La is an Irish political slogan, just like Rule Britannia is a British one - if Celtic decided to follow in your club's route and honour our club's identity through political messages then this would be the symbol used.

Or do pro-Irish political sentiments offend you?
Excuse me, what is anti-Scottish about Rule Britannia? Britannia in essence was England & Wales, Scotland was Caledonia but in modern times Britannia is represented by Scotland, England, Wales & Northern Ireland.

Rule Britannia might be a political statement used by Unionists but it is not a slogan of a Terror Group so therefore again you are not comparing like for like :)

As I said before Rangers shops cater for all needs without resorting to selling foreign nations goods. That'll do me :thumbsup:
 
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