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Cachorro
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This player has had a brilliant Brazilian league with Inter last year, he is quite successful on our youth squads, and he was one of the best things in the Brazilian team that flopped so miserably in the pre-Olympics.

While the pre-Olympic failure certainly will remain for him for a while as a "stain" in his curriculum – if he goes on to have a successful career people won't even remember this failure in a few years. Same for the others; several of the members of this squad are still interesting prospects for the future. There's actually a positive aspect to this miserable flop: the pressure on Parreira to use the "new generation" ASAP will be considerably lighter now (and I'm sure Parreira will appreciate that). ;) All the wailing of fans, journalists and pundits demanding Robinho and Diego's presence in the team can finally be put to rest for a while. :sigh:

But even with a more critical eye, when we look at the Brazilian team that played, some players have shown enormous potential. Gomes was very secure in front of the net. Alex and his strong physical game, making an impression not due to skill but due to sheer power. The strong defensive-mid duo composed of Fabio Rochemback, who someone aptly described as "a Gattuso with better skills", and the energetic Dudu Cearense. And... Daniel Carvalho.

During this tournament Daniel Carvalho was always a positive presence on the left side, with skill, regularity and vision. And more... he has shown a good tactical mind, positioning himself quite well and helping cover spaces when we lost the ball. With some work polishing his defensive game, he could really go places. Today Carvalho is undeniably much more mature as a player than Robinho, but of course, Robinho plays in a footballing "center" and gets more media coverage (and hype).

I know this is probably too early to debate one of the participants in the pre-Olympic fiasco... but today I was comparing the pre-Olympic team's system with the system we use on our first team... and something interesting struck me.

In theory... couldn't Daniel Carvalho do Ze Roberto's job in the Selecao? At least as a bench option?
:confused:
 

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Only offensive.... not defensively. And Ze Roberto's position is much more into the "covering"gaps mentality, than the opening spaces up in the attack mentality... if you know what i mean.
 

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Cachorro
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Discussion Starter #3
Ze da Fiel said:
Only offensive.... not defensively. And Ze Roberto's position is much more into the "covering"gaps mentality, than the opening spaces up in the attack mentality... if you know what i mean.
I don't know... Parreira always underlines that it's Ze Roberto's "two-way" contribution that makes him so special, his ability to defend and attack well (and hopefully the same line of reasoning will lead Juninho Pernambucano to our first team, in Kleberson's position).

If Daniel Carvalho improved his defensive game... he could do that same job. Since last year we've been talking about trying a promising youngster like Diego in Ze Roberto's position, since Ze has been a bit irregular... and there's a possibility that we've been looking at the wrong youngster. ;)
 

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I was thinking about that too, but to defend is osmething hard to learn...
But right now, few players deserve a chance. I'd say Daniel (Sevilla), Fabio Rochemback/Dudu Cearense, and Daniel Carvalho are the only ones. :(
 

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Garrincha,

If Ricardinho goes to Newscastle and starts playing well , I'm pretty sure Parreira will give him a chance again. That position was for Ricardinho.. but he failed miserably in the Brazil NT and in Sao Paulo.

I think he is still looking for that man... or will go with Ze Roberto all the way (which i hope he does not). I would improvise Alex overtheir
 

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I think Daniel Carvalho proved to be a very good option for that spot.

Defensivily, of course that he can't compare to Zé Roberto yet. Fábio Aurélio and Silvinho are other players who came to my mind and could perform well there. Same about Denílson, it's not his best position but can quickly adapt since he has a similar role in his club.

I still think that this is a good position for Robinho, but he would some need time. He already played on that spot in the Golden Cup. Tostão said something interesenting last week:

"Gostaria de ver a equipe atuar como na Copa Ouro e que deu certo. O time jogaria com dois volantes {o da direita avançaria mais}, Robinho mais recuado pela esquerda {e não Daniel Carvalho} e o Diego na ligação com os dois atacantes {Daniel Carvalho e um centroavante}. Robinho e Daniel Carvalho se revezariam nas jogadas pela esquerda.

Robinho, que necessita de mais espaço para usar sua habilidade, velocidade e mobilidade, que é capaz de, numa fração de segundos, passar de uma intermediária a outra, que é mais um desarticulador de defesas que um finalizador, que deveria iniciar as jogadas mais de trás, atuou em todas as partidas no ataque, pelo meio e perto do centroavante.

Daniel Carvalho, que é um jogador agressivo, que cruza e finaliza muito bem, que não tem velocidade pra recuar até seu campo e chegar rapidamente, ao ataque, e que deveria atuar mais adiantado pela meia e ou ponta-esquerda, jogou contra a Colômbia muito recuado, próximo aos volantes."
 

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Altough tostão´s idea seemed good to me at first , I don´t really think any of these´s players mentioned here would do a good job at zé roberto´s function .
Their marking capabilities just lack way too much compared to zé´s . It´s too much to be fixed , and marking is probaly one of the last things they will think about when trying to improve .

From the youngsters we have today , maybe wendell , but there wouldn´t be any improvoment(on the contrary) .

PERHAPS fábio aurélio . But I´m just saying that because he was a left back here , like Zé . Silvinho is just not talented enough by the way .

And I already said it to roberto . The day ROCHEMBACK plays as a starter for the brazilian professional NT , I will simply pretend there is no game going on .
 

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Yes Ivan, at first I had some trouble trying to understand how a person can hate a player as much as you hate Rochemback, but I thought about Rogerio Ceni and finally I was able to get your point :D

About the left-mid thing, first I'd like to say that I always thought and I still think that Zé Roberto is great and he's the best man for the job. I mentioned the others as possible replacements for him.

You are right Ivan, Silvinho isn't NT material. He would be just a tactical option. Fabio Aurélio is more talented though, and he played on the left-mid several times for Valencia.

Then you have Denílson, Robinho and Daniel Carvalho. These ones are of course more offensive options. They could do well at least on these WC Qualifiers, where almost all the teams play very defensevily against us.
 

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in my opinion Ze Roberto is not doing his function to well anyways. Daniel needs his big push. He showed spirit and in the game with argentina he died trying to make up the function. But this is sillly, this dude reminds me of Figo, easy dribble without leaving his place , good crossing, easy to play in both sides. This player must be developed to his best, offensive option. Obviously with that , to answer the topic - he is not a replacement to Ze, at beast a tatical variation (but since Parreira only get one system to work...we wont seethat)
 

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wait, move is not correct either. Here he can learn and not have his talent wasted somewhere...We are better to develop players than any place in the world.
 

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But that is the problem of the people who are blind of here thinking that here is a cheese league. Kaka arrivided in Milan already build for the sucess is a good prove that the forgery here burns with great fire and shapes the better steel.
 

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I think a player can improve here to a certain point . For the league´s sake I just wished they all stayed here forever , but the truth is at some point they must go to europe if they wanna keep evolving(is that right or just made it up?) .

I think kaka´s timing was right (it wouldn´t be horrible for him to stay one more year tough) . He played 2 years and a half in a big team , but we all know he gained A LOT more of experience than 99% players gain with the same time .

Kaka is an exception tough . It takes more time for most of the players to build up right until it´s time to go to the old continent .
Daniel Carvalho isn´t ready yet .
 

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Not all players adapt well for sure.

But to show the evidence that our local league does keep the level of the players here in a level such that they can play anywhere without any add, you need a few evidences, for those evidences alone show it is possible.

This year we have Kaka and Mancine.
Before them, we had other players who adapted well in their first year from Rivaldo, Zico, Cerezo, Careca, Dede, Mauro Silva, Lucio...

put clear...the prove is not that "It is so good that all players are going there and will work well"...
it is "It is good enough to produce quality to work well anywhere".
 

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I think its too early for Carvalho,he still needs to improve much more,he only had a couple of good tournaments,and a good year at Inter but as we all know now,he definitely has what it takes to be a great player.hope we can keep him for another season or two.
 

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Daniel Carvalho
I haven´t seen much of him but it seems
if he´s gonna be an offensive player still needs to improve his finishing
he still lacks the ability to decide a game
that ability really differs a good player from a great
compared to Figo for example
only 5 goals in Brasileiro bear witness of this
same could be said about Diego & Robinho
where however irregularity over the season is the answer


Kaka is not a overall great player(not yet) but he has certain specific skills
that gives him an edge
like other hyped glamour players for ex Beckham
Daniel Carvalho is maybe even better than Kaka in overall skills but
still perhaps lacks that specific skill that makes a difference
 

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Well, I didn't see him through the Brasileiro, so I base my opinion only on the U-20 tournament, which significantly decreases the relevance of my opinion on him. But anyway... I think he is a good player with good potential, but in that particular tournament, he didn't impress me very much and based on that I definitely wouldn't consider him to be NT material (yet). Brazil won the U-20 mainly due to excellent performance of defensive midfielders (Dudu, Carlos Alberto), defence (Adailton, Alcides) and the right-back (Daniel). Players in attack (Daniel Carvalho included) had pretty average tournament, plus in some games Daniel Carvalho was really too selfish, however I must say that when he was moved to the left wing, he usually did good job there.
 

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I would not rush to put him in the NT yet. I think he has to eat a lot of grass to have a go at the first team.

Do we all want to replace Ze Roberto in the NT? I think the answer is yes....... otherwise such a topic would have not been brought up.

Then I say, let's put Alex in that function. He has gonne through many up and downs in his career and would accept to make a sacrifice of marking the DM or right back of the other team with no problem. And the advantage taht we would have his brilliant pin point plays when we have the ball.

Bobby,

I din't see were Tostao said that Robinho would be perfect for Ze Roberto's position. He jsut said that he should drop a little more to midfield and start the counter attacks...... which is COMPLETELY different than Ze Roberto's position (the third man of midfield);)

So now you had started a HUGE fight because you din't read the text properly........ that's why we love to call you "our friend, Bobby;) :howler: :howler: :howler:
 
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