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Honourable Mention, October 2011 Photo Contest
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Discussion Starter #1
I want to ask you something fellow brazilians, don't you think is strange that the Colombian NT doesn't display great football? or that colombian players are not recognize in the world? I think a lot of them are pure class and they have a lot of determination (sadly not in the NT). They have players as good as you and we have. Serna in his prime was a lot better than Emerson, Husain, Gatusso, or whatever, this kid Vargas in Boca is promising, even in "Caciques" function they have a Bermudez (skills apart), not to mention that for me Valderramma was awesome, the Bochini of his era, what's the problem?
 

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Cachorro
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Well... I'm not qualified to comment on Colombia's domestic league and their National Team politics... but some aspects can be identified even from an outside observer.

In 1994, IMO Colombia collapsed under the weight of their own hype. They thought they were hot stuff after thrashing Argentina, and the world fell on their heads when the WC started. Dealing with hype is VERY difficult, as Brasilians and Argentineans know so well... and maybe they needed to learn that lesson. It's a pity that the wonderful Rincon-Valderrama-Asprilla generation had to suffer so much in this learning process, but that's football.

After 94, Colombia was never quite as good, that's the simple truth; they were never able to reach the standard of the 93-94 team. :undecide: But to evaluate this properly we would need to know the Colombian fans' expectations: do they want another smooth and flamboyant team like the 94 squad, demanding flair from all their players at all times (like Brasilians do); or would they be satisfied with a competitive team (like the Uruguayans)? Knowing the Colombian fans' attitude towards their team might help us understand what happens with the Colombian team itself. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Frankly who's qualified??':D and I agree with you in many aspects, as for the flamboyant aspect, I think all southamerican teams want that for the NT, of course punches generates Bilardo's-Menotti's antagonisms, but I don't know many peole who doesn't like a rabona or a caño.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You certainly not qualify in potrero's terms:D

Rabona: what Maradona, Borghi, Coudet use to do all the time, hitting the ball with your good leg, passing in it from behind when is a suitable position to hit it with the no good leg, or just doing it for fan or distraction.
Caño: sotana, tunnel, passing the ball through the opponents leg.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
No Ze, Valderrama was great, Rincon also, the goalkeepers are amazing (Mondragon and Cordoba for instance), Serna was a hell of defensive midplayer, in fact they are intelligent guys and they adapt easily to other southamerican countries, I guess marketing has a great deal with the opinions about them. If Boca recovers Tevez and Guille, Clemente, Burdisso continues as they are, and display Marinelli, or Cangele as playmaker, Boca will have another great Libertadores and you would have the opportunity to watch our two colombianos: Perea and Vargas who are young and projects of very good players, not at all below the argies of the team (specially donnet, villareal, and also iarley :D )
 

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Valderrama was crap.... completely overated player. A football composed of only sideway passes of 5 meters long... and completely slow. May be great in Colombia... in Brazil he would not start in many clubs back in the day he played!
 

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Fangio said:
No Ze, Valderrama was great, Rincon also, the goalkeepers are amazing (Mondragon and Cordoba for instance), Serna was a hell of defensive midplayer, in fact they are intelligent guys and they adapt easily to other southamerican countries, I guess marketing has a great deal with the opinions about them.
I agree, but this is just a few players from the last 10 or so years. Colombia has a good team now, but they are still not in the level of Argentina or Brazil.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Ze I guess you like players with pace, because Valderrama was great, a cuestion of taste I guess, I love the Bochini type of player he was, guys like him that walk the field with grace deserves my admiration (Zidane, Roman also), and that doesn't mean I don't like the Ronaldinhos or Aimar type, that fly on the field (they seem not to touch the ground when they run). I'm not saying they are in the same level of Brazil or Argentina, we have years of advantage, our football background has more than a century behind...but the names I mention has the same quality than many of our players, of course may be we produce more.
 

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RIncon is brill.... Valderrama is an extremly overated player taht I would hate that any team of mine had teh useless sideways passing being done in any team of mine. The guy was useless and thought he was the thing. Poor guy:rolleyes:
 

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Partially it has to do with tradition. Argie and Brasilians and even Uruguayans have great tradition and have won the big games. While the rest of South Americans simply haven't gotten that kind of results. I guess is something similar to what the Dutch or Portuguese go through in Europe.


The other aspect is that the quality is just not there. Though I agree that Colombia now has some excellent players but simply are not at the level of brasil and argentina..
 

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Discussion Starter #13
But you are missing the point here I'm not talking about quantity or even the best players from each country, I know they haven't an Aimar, a Ronaldinho, a D'Alessandro, a Ronaldo, a Roberto Carlos, Samuel, etc.... but players of the same level of many argies or brazilians have less recognition, in fact players like Serna, Cordoba, and with all the vices of ancient players: Usuriaga ans Castillo played really well in argentina, the same of Rincon in Brazil, I think many of them are better than many europeans and respect the game a lot more than them. At least I felt them nearer in style and capacity, specially players like Serna, Vargas or Lionel Alvarez that combines technic with a lot of tackle and stamina, may be their playmakers like Molina (which impress me a lot last Libertadores or Geovanni) lack of personality for the higher stages, is like they can achieve the status of a Matute Morales, Insua, Hugo Castillo, etc.. but not even an Ibagaza.
 

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colombia overated their 94 team;)

we have had better players than colombia troughout our history yet we know we have never had a team capable of winning a world cup

why is that so difficult for colombians?;)

and btw cesar cueto was better than valderama but he never had a funny haircut so he didnt get the recognition el pibe got
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hi Condor, I think in 94 they were too much confident ,but they had a hell of a team. As for peruvians, one of my fauvorite players in Boca during the old hard days: Solano, awesome player, I love the Ñol and to tell the truth Peru is for me other country, which they players must have a lot more recognition,same case of Colombia or even worse because as you said a Melendez MUST be in ten all time defenders, being that superb technicall defender and being an idol in Boca says a lot of him. Every country have excellent players, Dely Valdez is an example and don't forget that many of the French and Holland players origin is from a small country. I can gain some hate with what I'm going to say but I doesn't feel in the same way with: Ecuador, Chile, Venezuela, Bolivia, etc.., another case is Paraguayian players who may also don't have the recognition they deserve, but as a team they gain their respect as a tough team. Finally, I see Venezuela doing a great job, they are every day improving, the Libertadores and WC qualy two examples, from the begining they face hard defeats against, specially Brazil and Argentina, but they never abandoned the idea of "playing" attack, they were clever, is the only way to improve, now the past hard defeats are ,slowly but firmly, belonging to the past, gREAT JOB. As for Chile, I always like those two amazing players Salas and Zamorano are, watching Salas playing now in River is a pleasure to the eyes and demostrates how good he feels in a team like River, that is the football that suits him better and he feels free to intend any move, for me that's the reason he never reach a mega star status in Europe, some new guys like Mirosevic are really good players, but as a team they till now never deliver and two or three class players don't make a team.
They are northamericans but I'm going to include an opinion about Mexico, which in football matter I found an irritating team, in the clubs aspect they reach amazing achievements (always with foreigners help) they have the mentallity needed in this level and, they make TEAMS. But as for what they think of themselves or some of their players.....for instance Blanco????? the idol of mexican football is that joke??? what is that 3 years old kid HORRIBLE trick he usually performed; that says all, because for instance Palencia is a very good player, and the dumb ass of Blanco takes the recognition, I don't know actual level of Arellano, but when he was a kid he seems to have a great future. But they are always complaining and they always had the hard time to qualify, and disrepecting Argentina and brazil or any southamerican team as if they were the unrecognize football wonder of the world, I don't like them in OUR Libertadores Cup. And this opinion it has nothing to do with the country itself which I fuond beautifull, with tradition, great writers and one of my fauvorite bands: The AMZINF : Cafe Tacuba and one of the funniest and guarras ; Molotov, but talking about football...no, let's talk about boxing with them, that's there sport.
 

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the colombians of94' still loking for answers, some say USA got them out in an emotional game, but It was really the press that blow things out of proportions. ( and some of you guys around the world believe them)

ze and condor are so wrong in Valderrama's appreciation notes, the guy was class for 20 yrs and as he recognized when he got to Tampa's MLS side, his only mistake in Life was to leave the french Futball when he was at the highest level, winning with Montpellier and important cup. Conmebol has awards for him like the ones that could have been given to maradona, pele, garrincha on its own time.

is clear that for the last 12 yrs argentina and Brazil has only one team that leads followers of their glory: colombia
Uruguay and paraguay right behind.......That comment at the end of the year could be a mistake, but as of late and with the production of talent in colombia things are not the same as the national team gets relegated to the turmoil of Local federation.
 
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