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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Okay here we go again. I’m sorry it took me this long you guys but I’ve been a bit busy. Moving on, this week Dagoods will compare and contrast these three following players: ZICO vs PLATINI vs ZIDANE!!!



ZICO

Clubs:
1971-1983: Flamengo-RJ
1983-1985: Udinese - Italy
1985-1990: Flamengo-RJ
1991-1994: Kashima Antlers - Japan

Club titles:
Pre-Olympic Tournament: 1972
Guanabara Cup: 1972, 1973, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1988, 1989
Rio de Janeiro State League: 1972, 1973, 1978, 1979, 1979 Spécial, 1981, 1986
Rio Branco Cup: 1976
Roca Cup: 1976
Atlantic Cup: 1976
Oswaldo Cruz Cup: 1976
United States Bicentenal Tournament: 1976
Brazilian League: 1980, 1982, 1983, 1987
Libertadores Cup: 1981
Intercontinental Cup: 1981

Ramon de Carranza Trophy: 1979, 1980
Santander City Tournament: 1980
Kirin Cup: 1988
Colombino Huelva Tournament: 1988
Hamburg City Tournament: 1989

Personal titles:
Brazilian Bola de Prata (Placar): 1974, 1975, 1977, 1982, 1987
Brazilian Bola de Ouro (Placar): 1974, 1982
Rio state league's top scorer: 1975, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1982
El Pais newspaper (top player): 1977, 1981, 1982
Brazilian league's top scorer: 1980, 1982
Copa Libertadores's top scorer: 1981
Top player of the Intercontinental Cup's final: 1981
FIFA Top player: 1983

VIDEO EVIDENCE:

[tub]ARpEnjZIWko[/tub]
Great goals

[tub]FA_tqls4nj0[/tub]
More amazing goals.

[tub]TXAUMHdoIt0&feature=related[/tub]
Amazing passing ability

[tub]K-iNbr1EMgQ[/tub]
Superb playmaking display

Vs.



PLATINI

Clubs:
AS Nancy
Saint-Etienne
Juventus

Club titles:

Nancy
Ligue 2 Champion: 1975
Coupe de France Winner: 1978
Saint-Étienne
Ligue 1 Champion: 1981
Coupe de France Runner-Up: 1981, 1982
Juventus
Coppa Italia Winner: 1983
European Cup Runner-Up: 1983
European Cup Winners' Cup Winner: 1984
UEFA Super Cup Winner: 1984
Serie A Champion: (2): 1984, 1986
European Cup Winner: 1985
Intercontinental Cup Winner: 1985
[edit] International honours
European Championship: 1984
Artemio Franchi Trophy: 1985
FIFA World Cup: Third-Place 1986
1976 Pre-Olympic Zone European

Personal titles:
France Football French Player of the Year: 1976, 1977
L'Équipe French Champion of Champions: 1977, 1984
Capocannoniere (top scorer): 1983, 1984, 1985
Coppa Super Clubs player of the tournament: 1983
Chevron Award (best goal per game ratio in Italian league): 1983, 1985
European Championship player of the tournament: 1984
European Championship top goalscorer (9 goals) : 1984
Guerin Sportivo magazine's player of the Italian championship: 1984
European Cup top scorer (7 goals) : 1985
Knight of the Legion of Honour : 1985
Intercontinental Cup Man of the match : 1985
English Football League Centenary Classic match, Man of the Match: 1987
Officer of the Legion of Honour : 1988
Artemio Franchi Prize : 2003
3x European Footballer of the Year (1983, 1984, 1985)
2x World Player of the Year (1984, 1985)
Onze d'Or (1983, 1984, 1985)

VIDEO EVIDENCE:

[tub]QsXvgTnZd2Y[/tub]
The amazing Platini at work.

[tub]xLgQHcPzs6Q&feature=related[/tub]
Grande Platini!

[tub]PWJDndQUHWI&feature=related[/tub]
Truly one of the all-time greats.

[tub]sOVmQSH6DzY[/tub]
Nice through-pass

Vs.




ZIDANE

Clubs:
US Saint-Henri
SO Septèmes-les-Vallons
Cannes
Bordeaux
Juventus
Real Madrid

Club titles:

Bordeaux
UEFA Intertoto Cup: 1995
Juventus
Serie A: 1996-97, 1997-98
Italian Super Cup: 1997
European Super Cup: 1996
Intercontinental Cup: 1996
UEFA Intertoto Cup: 1999
Real Madrid
La Liga: 2002-03
Spanish Super Cup: 2001, 2003
UEFA Champions League: 2001-02
UEFA Super Cup: 2002
Intercontinental Cup: 2002
International
FIFA World Cup: 1998
UEFA European Championship: 2000

Personal titles:

Ballon d'Or awarded to Zidane in 1998
Ligue 1 Best Young Player - 1994
Ligue 1 Best Player - 1996
UEFA Champions League Best Midfielder - 1998
Ballon D'or - 1998
UEFA Euro Player of the Tournament - 2000
Serie A Foreign Footballer of the Year - 1997, 2001
Serie A Footballer of the Year - 2001
Onze d'Or - 1998, 2000, 2001
French Player of the Year - 1998, 2002
UEFA Club Footballer of the Year - 2002
Don Balón Award Foreign Player of the year in La Liga - 2002
UEFA Team of the Year - 2001, 2002, 2003
FIFA World Player of the Year - 1998, 2000, 2003
UEFA Golden Jubilee Poll - 2004
UEFA European Championship Team of the Tournament - 2000, 2004
FIFA World Cup Golden Ball - 2006
FIFA World Cup All-Star Team - 1998, 2006
FIFPro World XI All-Star Team - 2005, 2006
Orders
Chevalier (Knight) of the Légion d'honneur in 1998,promoted to Officier (Officer) in 2009

VIDEO EVIDENCE:

[tub]1pPmP-Zege8[/tub]
Superb vision & playmaking skills

[tub]SShN7v2JWdQ[/tub]
Simply breathtaking

[tub]kGl10y9WXEo&feature=related[/tub]
This man was an artist!

[tub]cpMntQ0ZXoo&feature=related[/tub]
Bloody Genius
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Dagoods verdict: I’ve seen enough full games on both Platini and Zico to finally determine the following outcome. First and foremost, this is an extremely tough exercise to do but as always Dagoods welcomes the challenge! These 3 lads played in different eras, faced, and played alongside other legendary players. However, no one can deny that these 3 footy stars delighted us all with their skill and sheer brilliance. I’m basing my verdict on the following criteria/factors: Skills, prime, longevity, impact, awards, championships, and leadership. With that being said here is it folks, this is how Dagoods ranks them:

1. ZICO – LEGEND
2. PLATINI – LEGEND
3. ZIDANE – LEGEND

In conclusion: We are talking about 3 of the TOP 5 AM’s in the history of this sport, not much separates them. So why did I choose Zico? The man was an elegant and superb playmaker, dribbler, passer, and quite arguably the greatest FK specialist (slightly ahead of Platini) of all-time. Yes I’m well aware that he did not have a successful career in Europe and that he didn’t play in Europe long enough, etc. Well folks, he played in the Brazilian League back when playing in the Brazilian league meant something and became Flamengo’s biggest idol. Unfortunately, he went to Europe ate of 30 and didn’t join a “big team” but his still showed his class during his tenure in Serie A. And if you take a look at their profiles you’ll see that Zico actually won more titles at club level than Zidane and Platini.

Many of you will probably rank Zidane and or Platini over Zico mainly because the Brazilian failed to win at International Level with the mighty Brazilian side of the 80’s. Some even question his “leadership” as a player and again this is mainly due to his lack of international silverware.
Come on people, let’s not forget the following: FOOTBALL IS A TEAM SPORT! Zico actually has better WC numbers than Platini and Zidane. Here’s some data I’ve collected:

Zico – 5 goals/4 assists in 15 WC games (3 Tournaments)
Platini – 5 goals/3 assists in 15 WC games (3 Tournaments)
Zidane – 5 goals/2 assists in 12 WC games (3 Tournaments)

Zidane played 3 less games but both Zico and Platini faced tougher competition of course.

Overall Zico managed to score over 800 + goals throughout his career and yes that’s more than Zidane and Platini combined. Just for the record, I admire and have nothing but respect for both Platini and Zidane. Both of these two legends were so elegant and classy; true geniuses of the game. If I had to choose one between the two, I would go with Platini. Again all of these guys were SUBLIME playmakers (not much separates them) but there are some important differences found in other aspects of their game. Both Zico and Platini were better goal scorers than Zidane. On top of that they were more versatile than Zidane. The two were capable of easily playing as second strikers something Zidane clearly could not (due to his lack of scoring prowess) pull off. Zico is the best FK specialist out of the three, slightly edging out Platini. But what really sets him apart from the two European players is a little something we S. Americans call: PICARDIA!
What do I mean? Just take a look at this video:

[tub]auxVZ_c4DV4&feature=related[/tub]
Check out the first 30 secs. Look at that control, speed, and strength.

This man was able to dribble like Maradona, Ronaldo, Pele, Garrincha, etc. through 5+ opponents with ease and at will. Something Platini and Zidane could not due at will. Platini wasn’t much of dribbler/he wasn’t much of a sprinter period. The French Maestro knew when to perform his tricks and when to dribble. The same can be said of Zidane (he knew when to dribble), but he mostly preferred to shield the ball and dribble away. Zizou made things look rather simple, elegant, and effortless. Different style of dribblers, I know, but Zico was simply something else. The Brazilian could use a pass to penetrate any defense or he could attack defenses by dribbling his way through. You may say, well that's easy to stop and or prevent, just bring him down/foul him. True, but he could easily punish you by doing this:

[tub]yyMA_SRkfvU&feature=player_embedded#[/tub]
Zico, The White Pele indeed!
 

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Many of you will probably rank Zidane and or Platini over Zico mainly because the Brazilian failed to win at International Level with the mighty Brazilian side of the 80’s. Some even question his “leadership” as a player and again this is mainly due to his lack of international silverware.
shouldn't that make him a smurf? I don't know what is that exactly but I have heard that somewhere around this place.
 

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Zico was unlucky play in WC 1982 that the system was not advatage to Brazil. If that tournament didn't have a second group stage and played knock-out round instead. Brazil will reach semi-final at least.

However, The fact that Zico's performance in WC isn't impressive enough if thinking of goals. That cannot refuse his scoring ability is one of outstanding skills of his but he scored rather few. Even Zidane who is inferior to Zico very much in this kind o f skill, He scored more than Zico a lot of goal.

All in all, If you are speaking about the greatest ever group, High performance in WC is a must.

As I rank them in two threads, Platini is the best in this group in both while Zico was ranked above Zidane as AM thread but Zidane was appared higher as greatest ever. Hopefully yous would understand this base on criteria.
 

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Having seen playing both Platini and Zico, I can't say who was the best.

Zico was a better goalscorer, free-kick taker, dribbler and had a better ball-control. He's the best goalscoring midfielder ever whereas Platini is the second best one.

Both had equal passing abilities, though Platini probably had the edge in the long range passing area.

Platini had a greater leadership and -I think- was better when playing deep into midfield to control the tempo of the game. As a playmaker, he's the greatest dictator of the game ever in my opinion.

To sum up :

Into the penalty area or close to it : Zico has the edge (by a close margin)
Deep into midfield : Platini has the edge (marginally)

I think it's a TIE between them.


PS : Zidane should not belong to this discussion. It would have been more interesting to include Maradona into the discussion as it's very unclear that the Argentinan genius was clearly head and shoulders above Zico and Platini (I know it's a rather unorthodox point of view).
 

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Zico was very good playing deep in midfield also.

Zico is the best player I have seen in my life time!

Dearman... Zico & Platini were better than Zidane in whatever criteria you use!

Zidane played in a world cup at home soil... Zico never did.

Zico's history in football is immense.... the guy is the biggest legend of Flamengo. Flamengo's history is before/after Zico.

And Zico scored much more goals than Zidane!:thumbsup:
 

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A true hero
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Yeah, Dagoods your order is right. Zico > Platini >>>>Zizou.

Also agree that Zizou isn't on the same level as these two.
 

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Zico was very good playing deep in midfield also.
Sure he was. Zico could dribble, pass and play at will in midfield. However I'd still rather pick Platini as a classic playmaker to set the tempo in midfield. Platini was more an orchestrator in my opinion, maybe the greatest ever.
 

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Oh. I just see some clip of Zico I never seen. His dribbling is as if Osora Tsubasa in famicom game. Superb player !! could make miracle dribbling, free-kick taking and scoring.

I have admited to rank him higher Zidane now.
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #11
Having seen playing both Platini and Zico, I can't say who was the best.

Zico was a better goalscorer, free-kick taker, dribbler and had a better ball-control. He's the best goalscoring midfielder ever whereas Platini is the second best one.

Both had equal passing abilities, though Platini probably had the edge in the long range passing area.

Platini had a greater leadership and -I think- was better when playing deep into midfield to control the tempo of the game. As a playmaker, he's the greatest dictator of the game ever in my opinion.

To sum up :

Into the penalty area or close to it : Zico has the edge (by a close margin)
Deep into midfield : Platini has the edge (marginally)

I think it's a TIE between them.


PS : Zidane should not belong to this discussion. It would have been more interesting to include Maradona into the discussion as it's very unclear that the Argentinan genius was clearly head and shoulders above Zico and Platini (I know it's a rather unorthodox point of view).
Great post mate :thumbsup:.

I know exactly what you’re referring to. Platini was capable of playing in a CM role (Pirlo role) without breaking a sweat. Zico was more than capable of playing in the same role; alike Platini he had all the tools (passing/playmaking repertoire) required to play in that role. However, putting Zico in that specific role would be a waste of his offensive prowess.
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #12
shouldn't that make him a smurf? I don't know what is that exactly but I have heard that somewhere around this place.
Are you referring to Messi?
He doesn’t have to win a WC (to win my praise) but at least he has to do something with his NT worth remembering. Don't worry, he will have his shot in June. I hope he delivers for you lads :thumbsup:!
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Zico was unlucky play in WC 1982 that the system was not advatage to Brazil. If that tournament didn't have a second group stage and played knock-out round instead. Brazil will reach semi-final at least.

However, The fact that Zico's performance in WC isn't impressive enough if thinking of goals. That cannot refuse his scoring ability is one of outstanding skills of his but he scored rather few. Even Zidane who is inferior to Zico very much in this kind o f skill, He scored more than Zico a lot of goal.

All in all, If you are speaking about the greatest ever group, High performance in WC is a must.

As I rank them in two threads, Platini is the best in this group in both while Zico was ranked above Zidane as AM thread but Zidane was appared higher as greatest ever. Hopefully yous would understand this base on criteria.

I understand and respect your criteria mate. A job well done!
Let’s try to put this on a scale:

Zidane won more at the International Level (WC 98 – Euro 00)
Platini won more than Zico at International Level (Euro 84)
Platini had the better/more dominant performance at International Level (Euro 84)
Zico won more at club level (FACT)
Zico had the better/more dominant performance at club level tournament (11 goals/top scorer/player of the tournament – 1981 Copa Libertadores)
Platini had the better/more dominant performance at club level than Zindane (UCL 1985 7 goals/ top scorer/Player of the tournament vs UCL 2002 3 goals/Player of the tournament)
Zico was more talented than both Platini and Zidane (FACT)
Platini was more talented than Zidane (FACT)

This is never easy of course but Zico edges Platini in my book :D.

PS - I'm still waiting for Dae's input! And where are my other Brazilian brothers at?
 

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Even Platini is arguably the greatest player who ever played for my favourite Juventus, I couldn't pick him over Zico. Zico was simply incredible footballer, full package. I think that he was very comparable in skill level to Pele. Even his tackling ability was really good, and he could play as a standard central midfielder easily. Most complete footballer ever, along with Pele and Di Stefano. Edwards propably was even more complete, but...disaster.
He was clearly better than two in dribbling, heading, tackling and pace.
Platini was, in my opinion, the most intelligent footballer who ever lived, and also the best passer in the history of the game. Amazingly unselfish.
In free-kicks, Platini = Zico, because I'm unable to pick one of them. Both are best ever in this skill.
Zidane is, for me, somewhat overrated. And obviously I know him most of three. His most important ability was playing his best in most crucial moments. Same with his winner-type mentality, it is his advantage of Zico. He was also amazing team player, tactically perfect. But individually, Platini and Zico was way better.

So, I agree with you. :)Zico > Platini >>> Zidane. :)
 

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1. ZICO – LEGEND
2. PLATINI – LEGEND
3. ZIDANE – LEGEND
Yeah, Dagoods your order is right. Zico > Platini >>>>Zizou.

Also agree that Zizou isn't on the same level as these two.
I agree with you both. Zidane, great as he was, is not on the same level as Zico and Platini. But sometimes I wonder where we would rate these players if we also had videos of old-timers like Zizinho, Puskas, Meazza and Di Stefano. How would Puskas compare with Zico? How would Meazza compare with Zidane? Players from before video became commonplace really get screwed on that sense.
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #16
Even Platini is arguably the greatest player who ever played for my favourite Juventus, I couldn't pick him over Zico. Zico was simply incredible footballer, full package. I think that he was very comparable in skill level to Pele. Even his tackling ability was really good, and he could play as a standard central midfielder easily. Most complete footballer ever, along with Pele and Di Stefano. Edwards propably was even more complete, but...disaster.
He was clearly better than two in dribbling, heading, tackling and pace.
Platini was, in my opinion, the most intelligent footballer who ever lived, and also the best passer in the history of the game. Amazingly unselfish.
In free-kicks, Platini = Zico, because I'm unable to pick one of them. Both are best ever in this skill.
Zidane is, for me, somewhat overrated. And obviously I know him most of three. His most important ability was playing his best in most crucial moments. Same with his winner-type mentality, it is his advantage of Zico. He was also amazing team player, tactically perfect. But individually, Platini and Zico was way better.

So, I agree with you. :)Zico > Platini >>> Zidane. :)
Welcome aboard mate!
You have come to the right place, my friend!
 

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Even Platini is arguably the greatest player who ever played for my favourite Juventus, I couldn't pick him over Zico. Zico was simply incredible footballer, full package. I think that he was very comparable in skill level to Pele. Even his tackling ability was really good, and he could play as a standard central midfielder easily. Most complete footballer ever, along with Pele and Di Stefano. Edwards propably was even more complete, but...disaster.
He was clearly better than two in dribbling, heading, tackling and pace.
Platini was, in my opinion, the most intelligent footballer who ever lived, and also the best passer in the history of the game. Amazingly unselfish.
In free-kicks, Platini = Zico, because I'm unable to pick one of them. Both are best ever in this skill.
Zidane is, for me, somewhat overrated. And obviously I know him most of three. His most important ability was playing his best in most crucial moments. Same with his winner-type mentality, it is his advantage of Zico. He was also amazing team player, tactically perfect. But individually, Platini and Zico was way better.

So, I agree with you. :)Zico > Platini >>> Zidane. :)
'He was clearly better than two in dribbling, heading, tackling and pace'.

Your point is that Zico was better than Platini in those three areas ? It's very questionable. Platini was a remarkable header, a good tackler (he became good at it in Italy, he really had no choice in the most defensive league in the world) and -surprisingly- had pace ! People often think that Platini was slow. That is not true. He looked slow but in fact he was not... Platini one day said that when they trained the Juve players sometimes ran 4OO meters races. Guess who was generally the fastest ? Himself of course... He didn't have Maradona's acceleration, but he actually was fast...

All in all the question should be : who was the most influential player on the field ? Well the answer is not as clear as you guys think... In their own way -Platini as a classic 10 and Zico as a playmaker/shadow striker- both players made their teams win, again and again. In crucial moments, I'd probably even pick Platini, who was a better clutch-player.

Also, as I stated earlier, I don't think the fact Zico scored more goals automatically makes him a better player. In fact, Platinis' goalscoring abilities were the same as Zicos'. The key point is that Platini usually played deeper, in a classic number 10 role, with less chances to score, (and yet he managed to be three consecutive years the best Serie A goalscorer) whereas Zico played in a bit more advanced position, often even as a shadow striker (it was very clear when he played with Udinese) with greater chances to score.
With France however, Platini often played like Zico, as a 9 1/2 or even at times as a real number 9 (in that case Giresse would fit the playmaking role). Playing at that position, he was as an efficient goalscorer as Zico (see Euro84).
 

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Zico is truly the representation of what not winning a World Cup can do to a players legacy. Whilst he should be compared to Pele and Maradona, he instead gets treated to almost obscurity.

Now don't get me wrong, anyone who knows their football history knows Zico, but whilst the legends of some are stronger than ever it seems like Zico's has faded away far from what it where it should be. This is a man who symbolises everything of a football legend, everything but a World Cup winners' medal.

Dagoods :thumbsup:

EDIT - **** my spelling.
 

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Zico is truly the representation of what not winning a World Cup can do to a players legacy. Whilst he should be compared to Pele and Maradona, he instead gets treated to almost obscurity.

Now don't get me wrong, anyone who knows their football history knows Zico, but whilst the legends of some are stronger than ever it seems like Zico's has faded away far from what it where it should be. This is a man who symbolises everything of a football legend, everything but a World Cup winners' medal.

Dagoods :thumbsup:

EDIT - **** my spelling.
Totally agree.


However Pele was above Maradona... people who really know football sohuld not compare Pele to Maradona... their is no comparison in that.

Maradona was a step below.

Agree with the rest of your post!!

Platini also din't win a world cup, and gets treated better.

if Zico only went to play for an AC Milan or an Inter... he would be better recognized. Instead some directors stuffed him in freaking Udinese.. and he still managed to shine!:thumbsup::smileani:
 

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'He was clearly better than two in dribbling, heading, tackling and pace'.

Your point is that Zico was better than Platini in those three areas ? It's very questionable. Platini was a remarkable header, a good tackler (he became good at it in Italy, he really had no choice in the most defensive league in the world) and -surprisingly- had pace ! People often think that Platini was slow. That is not true. He looked slow but in fact he was not... Platini one day said that when they trained the Juve players sometimes ran 4OO meters races. Guess who was generally the fastest ? Himself of course... He didn't have Maradona's acceleration, but he actually was fast...

All in all the question should be : who was the most influential player on the field ? Well the answer is not as clear as you guys think... In their own way -Platini as a classic 10 and Zico as a playmaker/shadow striker- both players made their teams win, again and again. In crucial moments, I'd probably even pick Platini, who was a better clutch-player.

Also, as I stated earlier, I don't think the fact Zico scored more goals automatically makes him a better player. In fact, Platinis' goalscoring abilities were the same as Zicos'. The key point is that Platini usually played deeper, in a classic number 10 role, with less chances to score, (and yet he managed to be three consecutive years the best Serie A goalscorer) whereas Zico played in a bit more advanced position, often even as a shadow striker (it was very clear when he played with Udinese) with greater chances to score.
With France however, Platini often played like Zico, as a 9 1/2 or even at times as a real number 9 (in that case Giresse would fit the playmaking role). Playing at that position, he was as an efficient goalscorer as Zico (see Euro84).
your getting it wrong here.. Zico was also a classic #10. Only because he scored a ton of goals, does not mean he was not a classic playmaker.

He did everything. Zico never played like a 9.5, he played as a #10!:thumbsup:

Zico scored 750+ goals and set up 1000 to his team mates
Romario scored 1002 goals and set up none to his team mates
 
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