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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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No futebol, o meio-campo reúne jogadores que têm como principal função armar as jogadas de ataque — e/ou desarmar as jogadas de ataque do adversário.

Com a evolução do esporte, os jogadores tornaram-se mais "especializados". Os volantes fazem uma linha de defesa anterior à dos zagueiros, desarmando os ataques adversários. Os alas armam as jogadas pelas laterais e os meias, pelo centro do campo. Alguns meias, por característica individual, também correm ao ataque e efetuam finalizações e, por isso, às vezes são também chamados "meias-atacantes".

Os meias-atacantes são o "cérebro" do time, pois são encarregados de criar jogadas de ataque. Devem possuir boa técnica, ter boa visão do jogo, criatividade e passes precisos.
Exemplos de grandes meio-campistas da história do futebol brasileiro são: Zizinho, Didi, Gérson, Rivelino, Sócrates, Falcão e Zico. Dois dos mais mais notáveis meias-atacante foram Zidane e Maradona.

Os meias com características mais defensivas são chamados de volantes, e podem ser caracterizados como primeiro ou segundo volante. O primeiro volante é o homem no meio de campo que mais marca, e é utilizado em alguns esquemas como um "líbero". Geralmente são jogadores fortes, com forte poder de marcação, que não têm tanta habilidade com a bola nos pés. Exemplos de primeiros volantes que jogam hoje em dia: Gravesen, Emerson, Makélélé, Edmílson, Gattuso, Frings .

Os segundos volantes, assim como os primeiros-volantes, também têm características defensivas. Porém, ao contrário dos outros, são jogadores bem mais leves e hábeis, que iniciam as jogadas após uma roubada de bola. Costumam chegar à frente, ao contrário dos primeiros volantes, por terem bom chute e serem habilidosos. Exemplos: Juninho Pernambucano, Pirlo, Zé Roberto, van Bommel, Xavi, Vieira, Fabregas, Verón.

História do Meio de Campo
O Meio Campo, originalmente, não era tratado como um setor tão importante como o é hoje em dia. Antes da década de 1970, por exemplo, o esquema de jogo mais usado era o "4-2-4", com dois laterais, dois zagueiros, dois "pontas" e dois atacantes, além dos homens de meio. Isso começou a mudar na Copa do Mundo de 1970, quando o técnico brasileiro João Saldanha (que pouco antes da copa foi substituído por Mario Jorge Lobo Zagallo) inventou um novo esquema de jogo, o 4-3-3, em que o ponta-esquerdo Rivellino jogava mais recuado, como um meio-campista. O sistema inovador, com o qual o Brasil foi campeão mundial, rapidamente se tornou o mais usado da época. A partir da década de 1980 surgiu um novo esquema, que extingue as pontas e dá importância fundamental ao meio-campo: o "4-4-2", que orginalmente funcionava com dois volantes e dois meias ofensivos.
Is this true? I thought Didi was someone like a Pirlo/Xavi/Iniesta? But according to this article he was an attacking midfielder? More like a Rivera, Rivelino, Zidane, Falcao (again I thought he was a CM/DM), and Maradona?

I know he played in the middle of the park alongside ZITO (DM) --- DIDI (CM) in 1958? so was he playing out of position? Or you Brazilians just like playing with one Volante and 5 numbers 10's basically? (Brazil 1970) :D.

Can someone please clarify this for me, thanks!
 

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Cachorro
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No, that's not correct at all. Your previous understanding was right. Didi wasn't an attacking midfielder. Whoever wrote that text confused apples and oranges, and Didi wasn't the only mischaracterized player there - saying that Gerson and Rivelino were the same kind of midfielder is ridiculous enough, and the fact that also he grouped Falcão and Zico together speaks volumes about how confused that whole article is.
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #3
No, that's not correct at all. Your previous understanding was right. Didi wasn't an attacking midfielder. Whoever wrote that text confused apples and oranges, and Didi wasn't the only mischaracterized player there - saying that Gerson and Rivelino were the same kind of midfielder is ridiculous enough, and the fact that also he grouped Falcão and Zico together speaks volumes about how confused that whole article is.

:confused::confused::confused: thanks mate I knew I could count on you! here is the link: http://ferrazmeiocampo.blogspot.com/

So Didi was more like a Guardiola/Pirlo (only better of course):happy::happy::happy: right? So how is he labeled in Brasil? A volante? a CM? and Falcão/Gerson pretty much were "2nd volantes as well right"? 1st volantes being Maurso Silva (pure DM) right right right?

HEEEEEELP :happy:
 

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gerson was a #10
 

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Cachorro
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So Didi was more like a Guardiola/Pirlo (only better of course):happy::happy::happy: right? So how is he labeled in Brasil? A volante? a CM? and Falcão/Gerson pretty much were "2nd volantes as well right"? 1st volantes being Maurso Silva (pure DM) right right right?
Didi was a central midfielder and so was Gerson. Pirlo plays a similar role, but football tactics have changed a lot and the roles aren't exactly the same, as the tactical systems of that time weren't the same as we have today. Nobody played with two defensive midfielders back in the 50s/60s; doing so would get any manager stigmatized as a "retranqueiro" (meaning 'extremely defensive', and a great insult in Brasilian football).

gerson was a #10
In terms of shirt number yes, but he didn't play the same position as Pele for example. Pele was always surrounding the goal and playing vertically, while Gerson was a central-midfield game organizer.
 

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Nobody played with two defensive midfielders back in the 50s/60s; doing so would get any manager stigmatized as a "retranqueiro" (meaning 'extremely defensive', and a great insult in Brasilian football).
A meaning that should go on being an insult, being the worst example of all a certain gutless portuga that thinks he is the best ever coach in the history of the beautiful game.
 

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pelé was a ponta de lança, not exactly a #10, maestro sort of player. somewhat closer to zico than gerson. I can't think of many these days.
 

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pelé was a ponta de lança, not exactly a #10, maestro sort of player. somewhat closer to zico than gerson. I can't think of many these days.

The ponta-de-lança was exactly a "10" from that time. Meaning the player who both created and scored, just like Zico and close to what Kaka does for the NT (not RM though). The maestro sort of player from the 60's and 70's was usually the number 8 (meia-armador like Gerson), who played ahead of only DM of the team.
I think guys like Didi and Gerson could probably play both the Zidane role or the Xavi, Pirlo role. The CM would suit them better, since for instance, a guy like Gerson, although with a style very similar to Zidane, was obviously more defensive than him. Read this magazine from 1968 with a Pele quote about Gerson:

"
Pelé can't accept Gerson playing a defensive role, like he played in the NT, parked in front of the defenders: "A player like him, who can get into the area trading passes and with a great hard, could never stay defensive like that"


http://veja.abril.com.br/idade/exclusivo/250603/pele.html



Dagoods, Brazilian teams from the 60's and 70's played with: one volante (defensive midfilder), one meia-armador (the playmaker of the team), one ponta-de-laça (attacking midfielder / support striker), two wingers and a striker. It was the 4-2-4 that everyone talks about.

The meia-armador was close to what the CM is today indeed. He organized the team but also defended (not as hard as the DM though).
The Ponta-de-lança was a mix of the AM with the SS from today football.

Tostão teaching what was the Ponta-de-lança:

"The ponta-de-lança, usually number 10, used to be greatest player of the team, lke Pele, Zico, Cruyff, Maradona and others. He was a mix of today's forward, who goes back to get the ball, with the attacking midfielder from today, who plays next to the two players upfront."

Another brazilian journalist talking about Pelé and Kaká. You can see that the meia armador (Gerson) did not play like Kaká.

"I don't know if Pato is a man of the box like Ronaldo or an attacking midfielder like Pelé, coming from behind, like Kaka who is not exactly a meia armador of the old days, but a meia de ligação-ofensivo (ponta-de-lança)."
http://colunistas.ig.com.br/jogoquaseperfeito/2009/06/08/nilmar-ou-pato/


"The thing is Kaká plays on the exact same position where there king was for two decades simply Pelé, first and only"
http://colunistas.ig.com.br/albertohelenajr/2007/12/20/pele-kaka-e-o-tri/comment-page-2/


What happened in the 80's? The ponta-de-lança started to be considered an AM like today and teams played with 3 upfront, the two wingers and a striker. Like Zico's Flamengo, Zico the ponta-de-lança was now considered part of the midfield with Tita and Lico as wingers and Nunes as the striker.
In the 90's, one winger went back to the midfield and together with the ponta-de-lança, teams started to have two AM's. The other winger became a support striker. What happened to the meia-armador? he went further behind, become a CM or like brazilians call "segundo volante" And teams became to play in the pure 4-2-2 that dominated the 90's and untill today.
 

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Gerson wasnt always a 10. It was later. But the article did not said they are attacking middlefield, while the text is confusing, because talk about attacking middlefields and then talk about brazilian great middlefields. Notice Falcao is also in that list.
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #11
The ponta-de-lança was exactly a "10" from that time. Meaning the player who both created and scored, just like Zico and close to what Kaka does for the NT (not RM though). The maestro sort of player from the 60's and 70's was usually the number 8 (meia-armador like Gerson), who played ahead of only DM of the team.
I think guys like Didi and Gerson could probably play both the Zidane role or the Xavi, Pirlo role. The CM would suit them better, since for instance, a guy like Gerson, although with a style very similar to Zidane, was obviously more defensive than him. Read this magazine from 1968 with a Pele quote about Gerson:

"
Pelé can't accept Gerson playing a defensive role, like he played in the NT, parked in front of the defenders: "A player like him, who can get into the area trading passes and with a great hard, could never stay defensive like that"


http://veja.abril.com.br/idade/exclusivo/250603/pele.html



Dagoods, Brazilian teams from the 60's and 70's played with: one volante (defensive midfilder), one meia-armador (the playmaker of the team), one ponta-de-laça (attacking midfielder / support striker), two wingers and a striker. It was the 4-2-4 that everyone talks about.

The meia-armador was close to what the CM is today indeed. He organized the team but also defended (not as hard as the DM though).
The Ponta-de-lança was a mix of the AM with the SS from today football.

Tostão teaching what was the Ponta-de-lança:

"The ponta-de-lança, usually number 10, used to be greatest player of the team, lke Pele, Zico, Cruyff, Maradona and others. He was a mix of today's forward, who goes back to get the ball, with the attacking midfielder from today, who plays next to the two players upfront."

Another brazilian journalist talking about Pelé and Kaká. You can see that the meia armador (Gerson) did not play like Kaká.

"I don't know if Pato is a man of the box like Ronaldo or an attacking midfielder like Pelé, coming from behind, like Kaka who is not exactly a meia armador of the old days, but a meia de ligação-ofensivo (ponta-de-lança)."
http://colunistas.ig.com.br/jogoquaseperfeito/2009/06/08/nilmar-ou-pato/


"The thing is Kaká plays on the exact same position where there king was for two decades simply Pelé, first and only"
http://colunistas.ig.com.br/albertohelenajr/2007/12/20/pele-kaka-e-o-tri/comment-page-2/


What happened in the 80's? The ponta-de-lança started to be considered an AM like today and teams played with 3 upfront, the two wingers and a striker. Like Zico's Flamengo, Zico the ponta-de-lança was now considered part of the midfield with Tita and Lico as wingers and Nunes as the striker.
In the 90's, one winger went back to the midfield and together with the ponta-de-lança, teams started to have two AM's. The other winger became a support striker. What happened to the meia-armador? he went further behind, become a CM or like brazilians call "segundo volante" And teams became to play in the pure 4-2-2 that dominated the 90's and untill today.
THanks mate, how good was he defensively? Does anyone know? Could he play as a CM (Iniesta/Xavi) or even a Redondo style of play in today's modern era?

In a 4-3-3 He would probably be placed infront of TWO DM's...
I'm sure ZITO wasn't the only tackling and winning balls back in midfield, I bet Didi had to do some dirty work as well...?
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #12
guys check this out: http://www.futebolinterior.com.br/aColuna.php?iD=1067

O verdadeiro "mestre"
Didi de "médio volante"!!! A definição é do próprio selecionador dos jogadores. Didi nunca foi médio volante. E não há a menor necessidade de deslocá-lo para esta posição para ele ter um lugar na seleção dos negros de todos os tempos.

Didi, o Valdir Pereira, foi simplesmente o "termômetro da Copa de 58", o jogador mais importante da seleção na Suécia. Mais até do que Pelé. E titular absoluto em duas Copas. Mas como meia armador e hors concours. Colocar Didi de "médio volante", como querendo arrumar um lugar para ele numa seleção brasileira chega a ser desrespeito.

Uma curiosidade: nas duas Copas que jogou, Didi teve como reservas outros negros: Moacir, do Flamengo em 58 e Mengálvio, catarinense, do Santos, em 62.

Só como colaboração: médios volantes negros de verdade não lembrados foram Denilson, do Fluminense, titular da Copa de 66 e Lorico, que jogou duzentos anos na Portuguesa de Desportos, além de Capitão e Badeco, ambos que também marcaram época no Canindé.

Sem falar em Zé Carlos, campeão no Cruzeiro e no Guarani. Médios volantes autênticos e esquecidos.
 

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Cachorro
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That guy from futebolinterior is a total clown. I could have stopped reading when he suggested that Dida was better than Manga. Saying that Manga sucked because the 1966 team didn't do well is downright ridiculous; the whole preparation to 66 was a disgrace, and if Zagallo were as stupid as this guy Gerson and Jairzinho wouldn't have gotten another chance in 70.

I think it's kinda futile to try to find an exact match for Didi's style into a modern CM position. Yes, Didi did some defensive work, and in the 58/62 WCs Zagallo also helped in that regard. But he didn't have the same defensive responsibilities of modern midfielders; the game was much more open back then. If you really want a modern stylistic match, I suppose he'd be somewhere between Iniesta and Pirlo, only better.
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Discussion Starter #14
That guy from futebolinterior is a total clown. I could have stopped reading when he suggested that Dida was better than Manga. Saying that Manga sucked because the 1966 team didn't do well is downright ridiculous; the whole preparation to 66 was a disgrace, and if Zagallo were as stupid as this guy Gerson and Jairzinho wouldn't have gotten another chance in 70.

I think it's kinda futile to try to find an exact match for Didi's style into a modern CM position. Yes, Didi did some defensive work, and in the 58/62 WCs Zagallo also helped in that regard. But he didn't have the same defensive responsibilities of modern midfielders; the game was much more open back then. If you really want a modern stylistic match, I suppose he'd be somewhere between Iniesta and Pirlo, only better.
Thanks for your input Garrincha! Two years ago, I had the pleasure of attending the Brazilian parade in Newark, NJ. I was wearing my Pele # 10 Selecao jersey of course :D:proud::proud:. Had tons of fun as you can imagine :D. Place was filled with hot ladies, delicious food (still not better than Peruvian food though :proud::proud::proud:), and great music but what stuck with me the most from that day is the footy conversation I had with this 65 + year old Brazilian man. He was full of knowledge, so I took this opportunity to ask him numerous questions regarding past Brazilian Legends!

Didi was one of the players we discussed. He told me the only player who resembled Didi’s elegance and deceptive slowness is one: Fernando Redondo :eek:. Both could dribble and only dribbled when necessary, both were “relatively slow”, both were great passers (of course Didi was a better long-distance passer), and both were superb at anticipating/winning back balls/even tackling when necessary…etc.

You brought up Iniesta and Pirlo into the discussion. I’m fine with Iniesta but the Italian cannot tackle his way out of a wet paper bag for crying out loud :D. Now, let me ask you this. Do you think Didi could play in the “Redondo Role” in today’s modern era? Is this an realistic/accurate comparison at all?

I know Rendondo is considered a DM but he was truly a deep-lying playmaker capable of winning back balls, now wouldn’t DIDI be able to do the same? For example, XABI ALONSO is a CM who has played in the middle of the park alongside MASCHERANO and now DIARRA (two pure DM's) so I really don't see why DIDI would struggle in today's era?

He would just have more defensive responsibilities, right?


Your thoughts, your thoughts...

PS - http://www.futebolamadordeminas.com/craque55.htm
Negro, alto, de porte esguio, não olhava para a bola, mantendo sempre a elegância, o que lhe valeu o apelido de “Príncipe Etíope”. Jogador de meio-campo, era um meia original e moderno para o seu tempo, marcando e atacando com a mesma intensidade.
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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I stopped reading right here you liar. There is no way that you didn't have a Ronaldo jersey to the parade.
Wrong, I was wearing my Pele jersey ;) and the sad part is: I WAS THE ONLY ONE WEARING A PELE JERSEY :eek::eek::eek:
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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Everyone must have been imitating Ronaldo loverboy Dagoods and wearing a ronaldo shirt
More like a Ronalindho shirt :happy::happy::happy: but I get your point!
I wanted to stand out, by wearing Pele's shirt!

Once again Dagoods is one step ahead of the game ;)
 

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Cachorro
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Didi was one of the players we discussed. He told me the only player who resembled Didi’s elegance and deceptive slowness is one: Fernando Redondo :eek:. Both could dribble and only dribbled when necessary, both were “relatively slow”, both were great passers (of course Didi was a better long-distance passer), and both were superb at anticipating/winning back balls/even tackling when necessary…etc.

You brought up Iniesta and Pirlo into the discussion. I’m fine with Iniesta but the Italian cannot tackle his way out of a wet paper bag for crying out loud :D. Now, let me ask you this. Do you think Didi could play in the “Redondo Role” in today’s modern era? Is this an realistic/accurate comparison at all?
I guess so, yeah. Redondo's name hadn't occurred to me. They do have similar styles and occupy the same roles. Didi also always played alongside a pure DM in midfield (in the NT it was Zito and in Botafogo it was Pampolini, who was Zito's reserve in 58).

I know Rendondo is considered a DM but he was truly a deep-lying playmaker capable of winning back balls, now wouldn’t DIDI be able to do the same? For example, XABI ALONSO is a CM who has played in the middle of the park alongside MASCHERANO and now DIARRA (two pure DM's) so I really don't see why DIDI would struggle in today's era?
I don't think Didi would struggle today at all. He had great work ethics and had more vision than anyone else, plus the skills to put the ball where it needed to be. When Real Madrid wanted a midfield maestro to serve Puskas and Di Stefano in the best team they ever had, Didi was who they got for the role - but they couldn't expect Di Stefano (who owned Real Madrid so strongly that compared to him Raul is a pariah) to hate Didi's guts and eventually force him away from the club.
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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I guess so, yeah. Redondo's name hadn't occurred to me. They do have similar styles and occupy the same roles. Didi also always played alongside a pure DM in midfield (in the NT it was Zito and in Botafogo it was Pampolini, who was Zito's reserve in 58).



I don't think Didi would struggle today at all. He had great work ethics and had more vision than anyone else, plus the skills to put the ball where it needed to be. When Real Madrid wanted a midfield maestro to serve Puskas and Di Stefano in the best team they ever had, Didi was who they got for the role - but they couldn't expect Di Stefano (who owned Real Madrid so strongly that compared to him Raul is a pariah) to hate Didi's guts and eventually force him away from the club.
Thank you, Grinchy :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:!

You're the man!
 
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