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Discussion Starter #1
i ask this question because, a few weeks ago when i was watching athletic x real madrid, occasionally the camera would pan the 800 or so athletic supporters in the bernabeau, especially after a goal. you could see a few rojo-y-blanco bufandas and a few guys wearing camisetas, but it struck me that no one was waving a iskurina. this was in contast to the rm barra bravas making a point to display the spanish flag (particularly behind the goal that athletic was attacking in the second half. i ams sure it was a "statement".)

i know that, for example, when celtic and rangers play, the celtic supporters are not shy to wave the irish tri-color flag right in rangers ibrox stadium and of course the opposite is true, rangers waving the union jack in celtic park.

so i wondered if the police in spain can prohibit the iskurina from football stadiums on the grounds that it would present a provocation and a security problem.
 

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No, I've seen the ikurriña many times in San Mamés or Anoeta... another thing is playing in the Bernabéu, probably Basque supporters chose not to show it to avoid problems. It depends on the situation, but most of the times it's normal to see ikurriñas, senyeras or the Spanish flag in the stadiums, depending of the team of the supporters.
 

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They can´t (even though many would like it;)) it was made legal after Franco died, although Iribar and Kortabarria lifted it in that derby when it still was illegal.;) Although sometimes they do, I know people who found some "funny" policemen that stole them "that rag" as they called it in the entrance of Bernabeu some years ago.

But as Setzer says not many people bring it to avoid problems, the Ultrasur move in Bernabeu as if it was their house, they won´t make anything to you inside the stadium but be sure they would recognize you and wait for you in the exits... if you go in small groups. Ask those Osasuna fans of the "diary of a skin" book. Anyway, I´m surprised, you normally see ikurriñas in Bernabeu, not many but some.

Also, I bet many of those red&white colors you saw were well covered outside the stadium, unfortunatelly things are like this nowadays...



 

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Sometimes in take my ikkurina to Dutch stadiums, most stewards doesn't make a problem of it, but I don't know or I ever told it before here, but once it was banned because those fools didn't understand what flag it was, I honestly said it's a Basque flag, while they responded; 'oh, they've got much to do with terrorists etc, you can't take this flag in' I tried to explain what's Euskadi etc but they didn't allow it (our own stewards btw), but after I send a very large mail to FCU they said I was right and I'm allowed to take em with me, so if something like this happens again I've still got that mail... :D. However, after this incident for some reason most times I leave my ikurrina at home, also to avoid problems I think...

But to answer your question; no, the flag isn't banned and I don't think the police can do it.
 

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The policemen can not forbid to use the ikurriña since it is an official flag. Actually, they should ban some swastikas, pre-constitutional and celtic crosses in the Ultrassur stands.
 

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Maybe this won´t be a problem in the future. At least this is my hope...

But let´s turn the point around. What if i waved a spanish flag at San Mamés?
 

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I think that it should not be a problem in the Bernabeu, except for the Ultrassur. In Bilbao, I don't think that it's a problem, because I can't recall violent actions from a ultra fans.
 

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Knoert said:
However, after this incident for some reason most times I leave my ikurrina at home, also to avoid problems I think...
That´s sad, but I understand... that steward was an idiot.:mad:

IlPrincipe said:
But let´s turn the point around. What if i waved a spanish flag at San Mamés?
It would depend on which spanish flag you bring and on how you wave it, you know what I´m talking about.;) You won´t be applauded, you will probably have to stand bad looks & some comments but you won´t be hit, and if you have bad luck and someone hits you, it would be an idiot and not an organized group as in Bernabeu or Calderón, not that I´m proud of that of course. And unlike other places in that case the police will protect you and they won´t steal your flag, if it´s a legal one of course, if not maybe neither according to what we saw against Austria Wien..

But going a bit into it, it wouldn´t make more sense to bring an Aragón, Madrid, Extremadura or wherever you´re from flag instead of the spanish? Until what point someone with a spanish flag in San Mamés is a provocation? How many spanish flags you see in spanish stadiums when they´re not playing basque clubs? That is, would you bring your spanish flag to all your visits or only to San Mamés?;)
 

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when you see all the senyeras at the Nou Camp you know there isn't a problem but the now famous! ;) Catalonia Is Not Spain banner was confiscated because it had political connatations, I find this very stupid. With the exception of racist and offensive banners etc (real madrid fans) anything should be allowed in the stadium, it adds to the colour and the spectacle
 

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Discussion Starter #11
great foto, txupa. it's now a screen saver for me at work. where and when was the foto taken, judging from the background the stadium looks too small to be san mames.
 

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The stadium is Atotxa, former Erreala stadium, and the photo was made when it was still illegal
 

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eugene said:
great foto, txupa. it's now a screen saver for me at work. where and when was the foto taken, judging from the background the stadium looks too small to be san mames.
I guess that it is Atotxa, the old stadium of Real Sociedad (Am I the only one that misses it? :proud: ). When? Txupa said that it was after Franco's death (Nov 20th 1975), before it were illegal, so I guess that it was before the Eustatuto de Gernika (Euskadi's major law), approved on Dic. 18th 1979.

Probably, it wasn't legal until that day, but illegal? It's not the same illegal (against the law) that out of the law.
 

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I guess that it is Atotxa, the old stadium of Real Sociedad (Am I the only one that misses it? ). When? Txupa said that it was after Franco's death (Nov 20th 1975), before it were illegal, so I guess that it was before the Eustatuto de Gernika (Euskadi's major law), approved on Dic. 18th 1979.
Probably, it wasn't legal until that day, but illegal? It's not the same illegal (against the law) that out of the law.
It is Atotxa in 1976, of course you´re not the only one who misses it :cry: . Most of Erreala supporters do. I had some of my happiest days of my life there!!! That stadium had its own soul...
BTW the result in that match was 5-0 with 3 goals by the great Satrustegi to Iribar, one of them a spectacular header from nearly outside the box. :eek:
It was just after Franco´s death, someone in the tunnel gave the ikurrina to Kortabarria just before entering the field, both groups of players talked and they decided to leave with it. It was yet illegal and it remains as one of the marks in the history of Atotxa.
 

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Was there any punishment given to the players afterwards?
 

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Bier said:
Was there any punishment given to the players afterwards?
That's what I mean... it's not the same "ilegal" (against the law) and "alegal" (out of the law). For example, nowadays, the prostitution is not legal, there is no regulation about it. On the other hand, it's not illegal, you can't go to jail or be punished, if you use "their services". Sorry, it's the first example that came to my mind. :pp

That times in Spain were very confusing, because the laws of the Franquismo still existed, but the Government was given steps towards the democracy, so you could already see some political acts and things like that.

I'm sure that the flag was not legal, but I'm not sure that you could be punished if you waved it. I don't know, I'm not sure of this.
 

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Nice example indeed :D
Well, I think especially in the basque region I can imagine that by that time something like a punishment for wavin' this flag oficially was far from being likely since I reckon the whole region had become a tremendous push forwards concerning their national ambitions and idendity after Franco died, so that this was only a symbolic gesture for the death of a regime and the start of a new political era and a new era of of national sentiment within the basque, the catalan and the galician region. Others probably as well, but I named the three which I can recall to place the strongest bid for independence ... at least on the language sector, which I am studiing, given that basque for example is not even rated a romanic language and catalan is nearer to french language systems like provencial and galician language was the cradle of portuguese (sorry I'm really being off topic now :googly: :D ) but also politically as I think.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
does anyone have a irish-basque crossed flag jpg, or know where one is located?
 

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iparralde said:
BTW the result in that match was 5-0 with 3 goals by the great Satrustegi to Iribar, one of them a spectacular header from nearly outside the box. :eek:
You couldn´t resist eh!:groan:;)
 

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I see your point, K4, obviously the situation was not the same than before the bast***´s death some months before, but the regulation was still there. The players were not punished, of course, which proves your point.
You couldn´t resist eh!
You know me!! :tongue: Jokes apart, that was one of the biggest days in Atotxa´s history, a step below the championship winning games.
 
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