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Cachorro
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Well, the Carioca WAS about to start on January 24th, but predictably one of the "big" clubs is already trying to gain an irregular advantage through bullshit. :stress: Fluminense, now with Edmundo and Romario, claims "it's not safe for the fans" to play in Madureira's stadium (where Flu should debut on January 25th, according to schedule). They say Madureira's stadium is too small and that the match should take place in the Maracana, where their numerous fans will have more space. Flamengo vetoed the transfer to Maracana (what, Fluminense wants to play one away game less than the others??) and Flu promptly appealed to the State Secretary of Public Security, a scumbag politician who agreed to change the match venue with the cynical excuse that Flu's fans wouldn't have enough "security" in Madureira's stadium (I'll explain why it's so cynical later on this post). Apparently nobody had inspected Madureira's stadium to see if they conform to the laws and offer proper security, so it's not fit for Flu. Oh, is that 'unsafe' stadium banned from the whole tournament then? No, it's just Flu that gets to play in a neutral stadium against Madureira... :devil: everybody ELSE should bow their heads and play in Madureira as scheduled. :fero:

Yes! All OTHER clubs WILL have to play in Madureira's stadium -- they didn't rule out that stadium as unsafe. It's just not safe enough for Fluminense's "vast" legion of supporters. For example, Flamengo – whose mass of supporters is more than five times larger than Flu's – will have to play there. :yuck:

Ferj confirma Fluminense x Madureira no Maracanã
A estréia do Fluminense no Campeonato Carioca será mesmo no Maracanã. Na tarde desta quinta-feira, a Federação de Futebol do Estado do Rio de Janeiro (Ferj) confirmou a mudança da partida contra o Madureira, inicialmente prevista para o estádio de Conselheiro Galvão.
A diretoria do Fluminense solicitou a mudança por considerar que as presenças de Ramon, Edmundo e Romário atrairia mais do que a capacidade do estádio do Madureira, cinco mil torcedores. O Madureira, compensado financeiramente, aceitou, mas, nesta quarta-feira, Flamengo e Botafogo se pronunciaram contra. De acordo com o regulamento, a tabela só poderia ser mudada se todos os clubes concordassem.

A Ferj, no entanto, passou por cima das regras dando uma nova justificativa: o gramado de Conselheiro Galvão estaria impraticável devido às fortes chuvas de semana passada.

Nesta quinta, o Fluminense encaminhou o caso à Secretaria de Segurança Pública do Rio, alegando riscos de tumulto nas imediações do estádio do Madureira.
So what happens? Wel, the other clubs refuse to play under these circumstances. And if Madureira's stadium is not secure, then it's not the only one: Flamengo refuses to play in Cabofriense's small stadium, that wasn't properly inspected either. Cabofriense says they will enter the field on the originally-scheduled time, and if Flamengo isn't there they will consider it a W.O. and demand the points from the game (God only knows what the federation will say, but it will probably end up in court anyway).

Flamengo não quer jogar em Cabo Frio

O vice jurídico do Flamengo, José Maria Sobrinho, disse na noite desta quinta-feira que o Flamengo não irá jogar em Cabo Frio, contra o Cabofriense, caso o jogo do Fluminense contra o Madureira, marcado inicialmente para Conselheiro Galvão, vai mesmo para o Maracanã.

A diretoria rubro-negra quer marcar uma assembléia na Federação do Rio para definir a situação.

"Vamos marcar uma reunião. Vamos expor que essas mesmas razões (que o Fluminense utilizou para mudar o jogo de local) se aplicam a outros estádios. O Flamengo quer que se cumpra o campeonato e vai falar aos clubes e explicar as razões. É lamentável que logo na primeira rodada já tenhamos este problema. Se o Fluminense não jogar em Conselheiro Galvão, o Flamengo não vai jogar em Cabo Frio. Não foi feita uma inspeção prévia em Conselheiro Galvão e em estádio nenhum. Não pode haver julgamentos diversos para os mesmos problemas", disse Sobrinho, em entrevista à Rádio Tupi.

O presidente em exercício do Flamengo, Arthur Rocha, reforça a idéia de que os demais estádios também não têm condições de receber grandes jogos.

"São duas questões: a primeira é se há segurança, se há mais interessados do que o previsto; a segunda é saber se os laudos sobre a capacidade dos estádios foram feitos. Vou consultar e acho que os demais estádios também não foram. Se não tiverem sido feitos, em todos os jogos do Flamengo vai acontecer isso", afirmou o dirigente, explicando que os jogos do Flamengo também têm uma demanda de público muito grande.

O Cabofriense se defende. Para o presidente do clube, Valdemir Mendes, o estádio Alair Corrêa está em condições de receber o jogo contra o Rubro-Negro.

"Tivemos a estréia do Rivaldo aqui (na quinta-feira). Se esse jogo, que tinha a presença de um pentacampeão como ele, não teve problema algum, por que o Flamengo não quer vir jogar. O Cabofriense entrará em campo e vai esperar pelo Flamengo", disse.
And more... Flamengo also intends to take Flu to court, to stop them from debuting in the Maracana. Fluminense's president answered by lying and claiming that it was all the government's idea... when it was HE who officially requested that the game be transfered, after Flamengo had vetoed the change.
Flamengo pode ir à Justiça contra o Fluminense
A polêmica pela mudança do local da partida Fluminense e Madureira, que seria em Conselheiro Galvão e acabou sendo transferida para o Maracanã, continua.

Após saber que a transferência havia sido aceita pela Federação do Rio, o Flamengo anunciou que vai reunir seu departamento jurídico para tentar uma maneira de impedir que o jogo seja realizado no Maracanã.

Uma das medidas poderá ser recorrer à Justiça. Segundo o rubro-negro, o Fluminense deve respeitar o regulamento do campeonato.

O presidente do Fluminense, David Fischel, não demonstrou preocupação ao saber que o rival poderia recorrer ao tapetão: "A decisão de mudar o local da partida partiu da Secretaria de Segurança, portanto não há nada a fazer. O Fluminense não vai tomar nenhuma atitude", disse o dirigente.
Now here's why I said Fluminense and the federation are being cynical... when the championship's schedule was originally being prepared, Botafogo's president Bebeto de Freitas had already alerted the other clubs that the smaller stadiums aren't good enough and proposed that the entire State Championship should take place only in the four best grounds of the state: Maracana, Sao Januario (Vasco's home ground), Caio Martins (Botafogo's stadium) and Edson Passos (America's stadium). That proposal was discarded by the other clubs, because Flu wants to be able to use the their small Laranjeiras stadium, Fla wants to use their minuscule Gavea "stadium" and ALL the minor clubs want to use their diminutive shitholes, even without security. So they decided to disregard the fans' security and all the smaller grounds were "approved" for use in the Carioca... until Fluminense decided to be "smart" and play an away match in a neutral stadium. :yuck:

Now all the other clubs are refusing to play their matches in diminutive stadiums. If/when big clubs refuse to show up for scheduled matches, the smaller clubs will demand the points from the games, it will all go to court, the bigger clubs will demand that the matches be played in bigger stadiums... well, the bottom line is: let's hope Fluminense is satisfied for this glamorous start of the Carioca championship. Eurico Miranda himself wouldn't have done a better job of ruining the tournament before it even started... :wallbang: :stress: :mad:
 

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What do expect ? Changes ? If Vasco,Fla and Flu still stick in the past and in the "ilustres" ? (Dont you hate when the president of your club say in tv that "ilustres atleticanos,flamenguistas,palmeirenses, etc are now going to return" and you know exactly that means he want his old little group back...:yuck:

Go Bebeto, Go.
 

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I agree. I think the most sensible thing if they want to change the stadium is to only play all games in Maracana or lose one home game.
However, Garrincha, just like always, is making a big deal. :D

Btw, expect to see Morais emerge as a great player this tournament. THe kid has loads of potential.
 

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Cachorro
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Discussion Starter #5
Making a big deal, end3r7? Fluminense playing one less away game is no big deal? It's a VERY big deal; there's no return match so the "mando de jogo" can't even be inverted -- the damage to the other teams in Flu's group is irreversible. For that reason Flamengo is now demanding that Flu's game against Madureira gets postponed until it can be played in Madureira's stadium, since now Fischel's "excuse" is that the grass in Madureira's pitch is ruined (the "security of the fans" excuse is being smoothly dropped, as it would mean that Madureira's stadium would be unfit for the rest of the competition as well). Why is Flamengo demanding a postponement instead of demanding respect to the schedule, you may ask? Well, since Madureira would receive a financial compensation from Flu for accepting the change – which IS the reason they accepted the change in the 1st place, of course – today Madureira opened a big fukking hole in the middle of their field, specifically to make sure that the game against Flu couldn't possibly be played there on the scheduled date. :stress: Come ON now... if Eurico did this everyone would be pointing accusatory fingers and you know it, end3r7.

If this shameful arrangement is successful (and it probably will be), Flu will be getting an unfair advantage over Flamengo, and going against the championship's rules -- according to which NO changes can be made in the tournament's schedule unless all clubs agree. And Flamengo vetoed the change, so Flu was morally bound to respect the previously-agreed schedule. But no... the cynical Fischel pursued all authorities he could find, until he got Garotinho to comply and make it "official". :yuck:

Now Fischel is shamelessly lying when he says that the club had nothing to do with it, when the club requested that change until they got it. If he were really concerned with the fans' security he would have demanded security checks on all stadiums, and he would have demanded that Madureira's stadium be banned from the Carioca altogether as an unsafe ground. He did none of these things, because he just wants to get a little benefit for his club.

If the fans' security is so important for him, why didn't Fischel complain when the schedule was announced? Then, Fischel already knew that Flu would debut against Madureira, yet he accepted the schedule and waited... Waited to make a one-on-one arrangement with the smaller club, involving the payment of a financial compensation in exchange of this smaller club accepting to give up a home game, effectively giving Flu a debut on the confortable Maracana instead of Madureira's hellhole. If that doesn't make your ethical alarms go off, end3r7... then the problem is with your ethical alarms, which have gotten so used to football managed by corrupt sleazebags that you're already confusing indignation with overreacting. :sob: With all due respect.

The truth is that behind Fischel's thin veil of blue-eyed lies there's a new Eurico Miranda, pulling backdoors strings and trying to get "clever" advantages off the pitch.

And we have to stand against this sort of scum, buddy. Whatever their club is.
 

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No offense, but you are being VERY melodramatic. ANd it gets rather annoying when you get like that, it is like Ze talking about Corinthians or JCamilo about bairrismo. :D
Did you even read my suggestions?
By the way, a group of fans called Fluturo were the ones who called Garotinho.

And if you wanna give less credit to the state championship because of that, it is your problem, I'm sure botafogo wants to win this year and I think they got a good shot.
 

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I am with Garrincha, its bairrismo to change to stadium to Maracana not to the Juiz de Fora's stadium. Why not ? :D

A written rule is a written rule. Those dumbass could not think ahead in the time, for 3 months ? Erase them. The change is respect the law and the more important...
Indeed that will cause little difference and it is sensible to make them make more money playing in Maracana, but the thing is : They used thw wrong ways again. Again.

Save Rio, kill the corrupts. And all Barristas.

Go Go, Bebeto.
 

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End3r7, you and other supporters who think like you are the reason why the Rio's football, once the best in Brazil, is now not even in the top four, even Paraná is better in the recent years.

Lack of critical sense is worst than anything. I thought that Fluminense was going to get ****ed with all of its dinossaurs this year, but now I just don't think, but also hope that this happens.

Go Go Bebeto! :)
 

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Roberto Gallo said:
End3r7, you and other supporters who think like you are the reason why the Rio's football, once the best in Brazil, is now not even in the top four, even Paraná is better in the recent years.

Lack of critical sense is worst than anything. I thought that Fluminense was going to get ****ed with all of its dinossaurs this year, but now I just don't think, but also hope that this happens.

Go Go Bebeto! :)
Damn, you are so ****ing annoying and quick to judge, no wonder a lot of people in the forums dislike you.
**** you.
 

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Everyone here saw that I was insulted. If the moderators don't do anything about it, I'll reply and keep the level of the forum down.

And yes, Ze da Fiel doesn't like me, now you, who else? It's good to have these people not liking me, it shows that I'm on a road and you are on another.
 

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Roberto Gallo said:
Everyone here saw that I was insulted. If the moderators don't do anything about it, I'll reply and keep the level of the forum down.
Are you for real?

Seriously, I've been trying to ignore your (extremely) arrogant and self-righteous ways, but to try to label me after I clearly stated that I was against this action just pissed me off. You don't have a right to tell me what I am, and now you are gonna go crying to the moderators.
I don't care if I get banned (go ahead Garrincha), but you are REALLY REALLY ****ING ANNOYING!

Anyway, I'm out to watch the Cruzeiro game.
 

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Roberto Gallo said:
And yes, Ze da Fiel doesn't like me, now you, who else? It's good to have these people not liking me, it shows that I'm on a road and you are on another.

Don't take it too serious, dude. I can guarantee you 90% of the posters dislike me too. Not too sure about the Brasilian forum though, because alot of these lads are extremelly cool. :)
 

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end3r7 said:
Are you for real?

Seriously, I've been trying to ignore your (extremely) arrogant and self-righteous ways, but to try to label me after I clearly stated that I was against this action just pissed me off. You don't have a right to tell me what I am, and now you are gonna go crying to the moderators.
I don't care if I get banned (go ahead Garrincha), but you are REALLY REALLY ****ING ANNOYING!

Anyway, I'm out to watch the Cruzeiro game.
Are you trying to ignore me? Man, you are incompetent even in doing that? If my comments are arrogant, bullshit or whatever you think they are, why do you ****ing bother??

I have the right to say whatever I wanna say, as long as I respect everyone. And my incredible judgement about you wasn't anything new, Garrincha said almost the same thing I said before, and I didn't see you making a scandal or insulting him because of that. Maybe that's because he's a mod.

My contribuitons all have sense at least (even if they are wrong), I try to explain EVERYTHING I say (maybe I have an image of self-righteous because of that). And even if you and Ze don't like me (and I'm serious when I say I'm glad you don't), I think there are a lot of people here in Xtratime who like my posts.

And yeah, Garrincha will do something about it, I don't know if he'll ban you but I expect some attitude from him. Otherwise, this will be turned into a mess (I know some bad words too). I could have insulted you and don't cry for the mods, but this wouldn't be fair with the people who come here and have nothing to do with it.

This is what I hate about internet, it's cool to chat with people from all over the world but at the same time you find people who take advantage from not being face to face and saying things they couldn't say personally. Be a man.
 

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Roberto Gallo said:

This is what I hate about internet, it's cool to chat with people from all over the world but at the same time you find people who take advantage from not being face to face and saying things they couldn't say personally. Be a man.
Hell, I'd say it to your face if I could.

And by the way, how am I not supposed to be offended:

"ANd Garrincha, just to make this clear, I'm also against moving to antoehr stadium..."

"End3r7, you and other supporters who think like you are the reason why the Rio's football, once the best in Brazil, is now not even in the top four, even Paraná is better in the recent years.

Lack of critical sense is worst than anything. "

Perhaps you should read your posts before you post them, you might accidentaly make somebody feel insulted and I believe this was just the case.

And Garrincha is very modest and humble, I'd never insult a person like that.
 

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Don't play the fool here saying things like you would tell me to **** myself in my face. You don't know who I am, you don't know how big I am, so you can't say that. Don't play the macho man.

And putting a statement by Garrincha here to make my "judgement" look something bad it's ridiculous. Here's what I meant when I say that if insulted you, so did he:

"If that doesn't make your ethical alarms go off, end3r7... then the problem is with your ethical alarms, which have gotten so used to football managed by corrupt sleazebags that you're already confusing indignation with overreacting. "

And what did I say? You lack critical sense. It's the same, you know it, but pretended you didn't know.
 

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Roberto Gallo said:
Don't play the fool here saying things like you would tell me to **** myself in my face. You don't know who I am, you don't know how big I am, so you can't say that. Don't play the macho man.

And putting a statement by Garrincha here to make my "judgement" look something bad it's ridiculous. Here's what I meant when I say that if insulted you, so did he:

"If that doesn't make your ethical alarms go off, end3r7... then the problem is with your ethical alarms, which have gotten so used to football managed by corrupt sleazebags that you're already confusing indignation with overreacting. "

And what did I say? You lack critical sense. It's the same, you know it, but pretended you didn't know.
I would say it to your face, yes. Not because I'm necessarily strong (actually I'm =) ), but I just can't stand when people talk to me like you did.

No, what you said that annoyed me the msot is that people who think like me (you don't even know me) are the reasons for Rio's problems.
You don't even know me, yet you find the need to judge me.

Also, Garrincha posted that before I stated my opinion on the subject (which I should've done in my first post...). And noticed he said "if", and I would agree with him, I'd lack a lot of character if I agreed with Fischel, but since I don't...

Seriously, if you can't tell the difference then you are the one who lacks critical sense.
That is what I said, I don't know you and you don't know me, so what you say may end up insulting me even if you think it wouldn't.

By the way, I'm not about to ruin the forum, if you want to keep up the discussion on how I'm the only to blame you can grab my AIM -> Bean2999.
 

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Back to Topic:
If anyone thought this was over, well not yet...
A Fla fan went to court to try to cancel the game.

Taken from another forum:

"acabei de escutar na Tupi. e ta dando a maior m**** na parada do torcedor do fra frs q entrou com uma liminar pra cancelar a partida. o juiz da 18ª vara civel (WascainO segundo o reporter), ainda nao julgou a bagaça e mandou o ministerio publico dar um parecer. o bicho ta pegando e segundo o reporter a decisão pode nem sair hj.

oq ta pegando é a parada do estatuto do torcedor e ao mesmo tempo cancelar a partida com 25 kil ingressos ja tendo sido vendidos fere o Codigo de defesa do consumidor.

ah, quem esta anoisando a parada no MP, é uma mulher. vamos ver q parecer ela vai dar da parada."
 

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end3r7 said:
I would say it to your face, yes. Not because I'm necessarily strong (actually I'm =) ), but I just can't stand when people talk to me like you did.

No, what you said that annoyed me the msot is that people who think like me (you don't even know me) are the reasons for Rio's problems.
You don't even know me, yet you find the need to judge me.

Also, Garrincha posted that before I stated my opinion on the subject (which I should've done in my first post...). And noticed he said "if", and I would agree with him, I'd lack a lot of character if I agreed with Fischel, but since I don't...

Seriously, if you can't tell the difference then you are the one who lacks critical sense.
That is what I said, I don't know you and you don't know me, so what you say may end up insulting me even if you think it wouldn't.

By the way, I'm not about to ruin the forum, if you want to keep up the discussion on how I'm the only to blame you can grab my AIM -> Bean2999.
Oh, OK! The difference was the great if. Nonsense bullshit you're talking here again. Even because the '"if", clearly applied to you. It didn't make your ethical alarm go off, so you met Garrincha's conditions for being what he said you were.

Don't try to change the focus of the discussion here. The fact is YOU insulted me and I didn't do this. You told me clearly to go **** myself and I did nothing. If you got ofended by what I said, then it's your problem, not mine. You could've judged me, you could've said that my posts suck but never isulted me.

And I'll go on with the discussion, if you want to end it you stop replying.

I'm still waiting for Garrincha's reply, if he doesn't to anything, then the insults will be free here and I'll say whatever I wanna say without worrying about the level of the forum or anything.
 

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Errr... wouldn't I be the one to know whehter I felt insulted or not? Anyway...
You want the last words? Fine, you know my opinions and I know yours. Let's end the discussion and you can wait for Garrincha or whatever. I have more in life to do than discuss with somebody whom I don't even know.

Edit - For the last time, I AM AGAINST IT. So it did make my ethical whatever go off...
 
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