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Cachorro
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well, let's try this once more. The first thread about the 2004 Carioca went off-track and was closed, but here we go again. The tournament is already happening, but I had my hands full of work until last week (I'm enjoying a moment of tranquility today) so I couldn't do a proper thread about the championship before. Here it is now.

Overview of the Carioca Championship:

Here's the championship's format: The clubs are divided in two groups. On the 1st stage the clubs play against the other clubs in their group, and the 2 best-placed teams play the "Guanabara Cup" final. On the 2nd stage each club plays the teams from the other group, and the two best-placed teams dispute the "Rio Cup" final. Then the winners of the Guanabara Cup and the Rio Cup play among themselves for the State trophy. If the same team wins both the Guanabara and the Rio cups, of course they also take the State trophy. ;)

=>> The current champs, Vasco, is building the team with the competition in progress. Yesterday the signed Alex Alves (who played in Cruzeiro, Atletico-MG and somewhere in germany), a questionable reinforcement for a bloated position – Alves will be the 9th forward in their squad (!!!?), joining old names such as Donizete and Valdir (who is already the top goalscorer in the competition, due to the *remarkable* amount of penalties that happen in Vasco's favour) :mute: Apparently they are also signing NEM to be their "xerife", according to the overly-enthusiastic news (why do the 'papers insist on pretending that ALL signings are great reinforcements, when that is clearly not the case?).

Those signings may be questionable but they do add to the squad's experience and outline a sort of backbone for their team. Now Vasco has a strong keeper, Fabio (currently being considered for the NT); Nem in defense (who is at least more experienced than the other centrebacks); on midfield, there are Beto "Cachaça", Marcelinho Carioca and the promising Moraes; and for attack there's a LOT of people: pacey forward Leo Macae, veterans Valdir and Donizete and the question-mark Alex Alves, plus several other unknown faces who will rotate on the bench. Not too impressive, and Vasco's own disorganization may come back to bite them.

=>> Then there is Flamengo... buried deep in debts, and for a looong time separated from the glories that marked the '80s and the early '90s. But their 'reheated' president, Marcio Braga, has been running the club quite responsibly so far... refusing to sign players who demanded excessive wages (like Oseas) and signing realistic and non-spectacular players instead. That was the biggest shock of this year's transfer window: Flamengo for the first time acknowledged their financial crisis and acted responsibly. There won't be any short-term magical solution for the rubro-negros... and they will only collect results in the future. But they're at least trying to manage the crisis (yes, even with the signing of Junior Baiano).

Inside the pitch... Flamengo has an unimpressive backbone. What is there? There's Seleçao 'keeper Julio Cesar, still one of the best in his position; starlet rightback Rafael, a fan-favorite with a penchant for scoring goals; retired-but-still-playing centreback Junior Baiano, a veteran from WC 1998; Felipe (ex-Vasco, ex-Galatasaray) on midfield and promising young forward Jean upfront. Not much else, really... and I don't think they have what it takes to win the Carioca this year. And I suspect that Marcio Braga knows it too...

(continues on the next post...)
 

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Cachorro
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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
(...continued to avoid an excessively-long post...)

=>> The club that made the noisiest transfer campaign was undoubtedly Fluminense: their president David Fischel wants to be reelected this year and is doing everything to build a "superteam" that can assure a landslide vote. According to reports, the bills are being fully covered by their sponsors, health-care company Unimed. If that is true, Fischel has closed a brilliant deal and deserves applause from his club's fans; after all, it's been a while now since any company has been willing to "support" a Brasilian club like that.

Flu already had Romario... and they signed "the Animal" Edmundo to partner the "Baixinho" in what will probably be his last year as a professional. :proud: :star: To serve that old partnership, Ramon and Roger (from Benfica) were signed, along with injury-prone left-mid Andre Luis (ex-Corinthians), skillful rightback Leonardo Moura (ex-Botafogo, ex-Sao Paulo) and also the diminutive leftback Juan from Arsenal, who was benched after ONE training session. :eekani: Now, there's a LOT of offensive talent in there... but practically nobody who's willing to defend. :googly: :party: WILL it work? Who knows? But on PAPER, they're clearly the best team. :rollani:

=>> Then there's Botafogo, fresh from the successful Segundona campaign in 2003. :proud: The team is only a little better than last year, with modest reinforcements coming in... but the team is practically the same, with the same manager and improved working conditions. Botafogo can challenge for the title, but there's a long way to go.

Bota's team is practically the same from last year: In defense, tough-as-nails Sandro will now be partnered by the experienced Joao Carlos, a marked improvement over last year. We've managed to retain the services of Jorginho Paulista, who solved our leftack problems; and the midfield is still our best sector, with Tulio, Camacho and the veteral Valdo sharing a fluid teamwork. Upfront there's Dill, Alex Alves (the one that played for Portuguesa and Cruzeiro) and the wonderkid Almir. Not too shabby... but still thin in several positions. This may be enough for the Carioca... but we'll definitely need reinforcements for the National League. ;)

Of course there are many things wrong in Rio's football, but I also believe we can aspire to recover our past glory. Almost all Carioca teams are trying to get their act together, each in their own way. The exception is Vasco

So we're all searching for alternatives, and for ways to return to greatness: Botafogo and Flamengo by "tightening their belts", Fluminense by signing a lot of "stars" with their sponsors' money and Vasco by simply ignoring the crisis altogether, refusing to change, signing players without thinking and pretending that their debts don't exist. :wth:
 

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Cachorro
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Discussion Starter #3
Here's how it looks today:

GUANABARA CUP
GROUP A
1º Vasco 9 pts
2º Americano 7 pts
3º Botafogo 6 pts
4º Portuguesa 3 pts
5º Olaria 1 pts
6º Bangu 0 pts

GROUP B
1º Flamengo 7 pts
2º Fluminense 6 pts
3º Friburguense 5 pts
4º América 3 pts
Cabofriense 3 pts
6º Madureira 1 pts

There was one derby already, the classic FLA x FLU... it happened yesterday. Flu was playing much better than Fla, and on the 20th minute of the 2nd half they were defeating Flamengo by 3x1 – and then Flu started an "Ole", to the delight of their fans. That motivated the Flamengo players, and Flu was punished for their self-sufficiency by losing 4x3 to a technically-inferior team. :eekani: :wallbang: :stress:

Botafogo was the first team to lose to a "smaller" team, against Americano in Campos (Americano's home ground), and it shows on the table. :fero: :devil: The Carioca Federation's president supports Americano, and... how can I put this...? Anything can happen when you visit Americano. :rollani: It's practically impossible for Americano to lose at home to another 'small' team, because all the refs are scared sh!tless of being "blacklisted" by the federation, which can end a referee's career. :yuck: Against bigger teams the refs are more cautious, but Botafogo was mediocre enough to lose to them. :( Now Bota will have to defeat Vasco, this weekend, if they aspire to reach the Guanabara Cup final. :boxing:
 

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Great topic, Garrincha!

I was going to do the same (of course not as well as you did) with the Paulista thread I opened (since there's not much to talk about the Mineiro), talking more about the teams and stuff, but I'm very lazy.

I saw some Carioca's games and Vasco looked the most promising side to me. Geninho is a great coach, he knows how to work with youngsters and without money. With Marcelinho Carioca, Fábio, Moraes and now Alex Alves (who was the best forward in Atlético last year IMO, despite his moronic attitude outside of the picth), they can be the champions.

Fluminense? Nah....when they signed Edmundo and Romario I warned that they wouldn't play 50% of the games, someone told me that I was wrong, but now I see it happening. And they are not even this big deal....Roger, Ramón, Edmundo and Romário together, with that defense? No way in hell it will work!

Botafogo at least has structure and a really good coach. They have a modest team, but I think they can do relatively good in the Carioca.

Flamengo has the worst team, worst coach, but it's always Flamengo and it showed yesterday. But I don't believe they'll reach the finals.
 

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Actually, ROmario and Edmundo have played really well.
Kleber
LM-AC-Rodolfo-Andre Luiz (if he does sign...)
Marcao-Juca
Ramon-Roger
Romario-Edmundo/Alessandro

sounds like a well balanced team.
The game yesterday was great, too bad that it ended like it did. It was teh best game of the year so far, great goals and great game overall. I think that was Felipe's best match as a mid ever.

I think Flamengo is underrated and Botafogo overrated.
Felipe, Ibson, Jean, Julio Cesar, and Rafael are really good.
Of course, then there is the Junior Bahianos...

Roger = :star:
 

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My main problem with Romário and Edmundo isn't how they play, but how much they play.

Romário already missed one game and Edmundo will not be available for at least one month.

About the balance on Fluminense's team...Leonardo Moura and André Luís are more offensive-minded side backs. Juca is originally a playmaker. Ramon and Roger aren't known for their defensive abilities either...not to mention that there isn't a player upfront who knows how to play well on the flanks with speed.
 

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Roberto Gallo said:
My main problem with Romário and Edmundo isn't how they play, but how much they play.

Romário already missed one game and Edmundo will not be available for at least one month.

About the balance on Fluminense's team...Leonardo Moura and André Luís are more offensive-minded side backs. Juca is originally a playmaker. Ramon and Roger aren't known for their defensive abilities either...not to mention that there isn't a player upfront who knows how to play well on the flanks with speed.
Very few teams have players who play on flanks with speed.
And about the defense, I agree. I've been pondering about putting Juca on the bench for antoher DM.
Leonardo Moura has been great.
I don't know how Andre Luis is right now.
and again, Roger = :star:

ps - I'm one of those people who don't care as much about balancing as playing good football. And Romario, Edmundo, Leo Moura, Roger,Ramon, ANdre Luiz, and Rodolfo can do that. ;)
 

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All the top teams have players on the middle or attack who can play with speed on the flanks...
Santos has Elano and Robinho...
Cruzeiro has Wendell...
São Paulo has Grafite and Vélber...

Flu lacks that, but it's true that the other Cariocas teams also do.

About the DM, who do you have for that position? I only saw the first game against Madureira (I have the Fla x Flu on tape but I didn't see it yet), Marciel played badly...Alan replaced him well, but he seems more a playmaker than a DM too.
 

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Diego and Rodolfo.
From the youth divisions, we have a youngster called Arouca who played for the WC winning U17. He is extremely, but I don't know if he can make the same impact in the pros.
 

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Cachorro
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Discussion Starter #10
end3r7 said:
ps - I'm one of those people who don't care as much about balancing as playing good football.
The problem, of course, is that it is not possible to do the second thing successfully if you fail at the first thing.

There is no such thing as an unbalanced team that plays good football; sorry to break this to ya. It may even be flashy, but it's a house of cards.
 

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Roberto Gallo said:

Edmundo will not be available for at least one month.

Please don't tell me it's because of the Carnaval or some other "personal reasons".:stress::rollani:

But with him, everything's possible...:eek:

Cheers.;)
 

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Roberto Gallo said:
No, it's a physical problem...at least this is what he says..

Too bad, he scored in his first two games and at least in the first one he was trying very hard...
1 Month is at the worst scenario.
He got tackled pretty bad (apparently) and had to leave the game...
 

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Garrincha said:
The problem, of course, is that it is not possible to do the second thing successfully if you fail at the first thing.

There is no such thing as an unbalanced team that plays good football; sorry to break this to ya. It may even be flashy, but it's a house of cards.
Sure you can, Garrincha.
Brasil 1982 played good football IMO, but weren't balanced.
RM play good football and they are not balanced.
Just because you favor on side of the game more than another, it just doesn't mean that you can't play good football. ;)
 

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Cachorro
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Discussion Starter #15
end3r7 said:
Sure you can, Garrincha.
Brasil 1982 played good football IMO, but weren't balanced.
RM play good football and they are not balanced.
Just because you favor on side of the game more than another, it just doesn't mean that you can't play good football. ;)
Well, depends on what you call "good" football. I'm not talking about "entertaining", I'm talking about "entertaining, competitive and hard to beat".

By the way... both teams you mentioned are good examples of flashy 'houses of cards'. Brazil 1982 was a fleeting, beautiful dream that was wiped away by a more consistent team. And one quick glance through Real Madrid's forums will reveal that every single one of their fans wants a central defender or a DM ASAP, because they know that their team's defense is as unreliable as a baby with diarrhea. Both Brazil '82 and the current RM can/could offer occasional flashes of brilliance... and both frequently commit (or committed) pathethic defensive blunders.

As I said... flashy but inconsistent. ;)

(you'll notice that I didn't even point out how pathethic it is to compare the current Flu with Brazil 82 and Real Madrid... oops, I just did) :D
 

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Well, then we have two different definitions of good football.

Garrincha said:

(you'll notice that I didn't even point out how pathethic it is to compare the current Flu with Brazil 82 and Real Madrid... oops, I just did) :D
I was just trying to prove my point, and i think I was quite sucessful, so :tongue:
 

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entertaining, competitive and hard to beat
Yet both definitions apply to Brasil 1982 and Real Madrid

Brasil of 1982 was entertaining, it was competitive and hard to beat because Italy suffered a lot in a great game to beat brasil.

And Real is Competitive (it leads his league today, it is in the semifinal of his cup and lead his group in CL) and hard to beat - As matter of fact , Real did not lost a game with the stars in the field, only in games where they did not played. And Real is that "Unbalanced" for quite sometime now and are the most sucessful european team of the last years....


However, they have 11 players (as 1982) that play all the time, giving their best...
 

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Is this for sure Romário's last season? I'm thinking about going to Brazil in autumn and it would be a shame not being able to see him play one last time.:depress: But hey, maybe you'll see him at the beach...;)

I'm really looking forward to see Flu making a good season. There's ceternily enough quality in the team to make that able.
 
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