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Discussion Starter #1
Well last couple of months, I've been thinking "why the **** does everybody bring down the Bundesliga?"

2008/2009 results speak for themselves:

Bremen 2-1 Inter Milan
Inter Milan 1-1 Bremen
Bremen 1-1 AC Milan
AC Milan 2-2 Bremen

Aren't Werder Bremen in bottom half of the table in Bundesliga? lol. They kicked out 3rd place AC Milan and beat 1st place Inter.
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Hamburg 3-1 Aston Villa (top of the UEFA Cup group, Aston Villa in 3rd)
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Bayern 3-0 Fiorentina

Bayern Munich is 4th place in the Bundesliga... but so is Fiorentina in Serie A.

Sporting Lisbon 0-5 Bayern Munich
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AC Milan 2-2 Wolfsburg (In San Siro, I watched the game, 50/50 very even and exciting game, Wolfsburg players were much quicker though; Wolfsburg is 5th, Milan is 3rd)

Wolfsburg 3-2 Portsmouth (should've been 4-2 or 5-2)

Wolfsburg 5-1 Heerenveen (neither Portsmouth nor AC Milan could produce this scoreline against Heerenveen)

Wolfsburg topped the group as 1st place.
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Schalke 1-0 Atletico Madrid

Both are 7th place in their respective leagues.
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Dortmund 2-0 Udinese
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Now the bolded teams below are the teams that competed in UEFA Cup/CL competitions:

1 Hertha BSC Berlin 22 43
2 Hamburger SV 21 42

3 TSG 1899 Hoffenheim 22 41
4 FC Bayern München 21 38
5 VfL Wolfsburg 21 36

6 Bayer 04 Leverkusen 22 36
7 FC Schalke 04 22 34
8 VfB Stuttgart 21 33
9 BV Borussia Dortmund 22 33

10 1. FC Köln 22 29
11 Werder Bremen 21 27
12 Hannover 96 22 24
13 Eintracht Frankfurt 22 23
14 VfL Bochum 1848 22 21
15 DSC Arminia Bielefeld 22 20
16 FC Energie Cottbus 22 20
17 Karlsruher SC 21 17
18 VfL Borussia Mönchengladbach 22 16

Hoffenheim is ahead of Bayern Munich, and Wolfsburg can be ahead of them as well tomorrow if they beat Hamburg. This is the closest table in European football. Bayern Munich are one of the favorites to win CL and have one of the most complete teams in the competition yet they're in 4th place in the league. Werder Bremen kicked out AC Milan and beat Inter Milan (who are said to be unbeatable)... in 4 games against AC Milan (2) and Inter Milan (2), Werder Bremen haven't lost once and have dominated in ALL 4 games.
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So wtf... why are people insulting this league? I watch it from time to time on GolTV and they always impress me. It's a very exciting league to watch with speed and technique combined in their football (can be compared to La Liga).

I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather watch a league where over 6 teams can all win the league and are equal in strength than a league where the winners are already decided (France, Italy, Spain, Holland, etc.). And they're not 6 crappy teams trying to win it, they're all good. The teams under those six are Dortmund, Schalke, Bremen... teams that have beaten Udinese, Atletico, Inter Milan, AC Milan, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm fine with people saying Italian, Spanish, and English leagues are better than Bundesliga but I hate ignorant remarks like "there's a huge space between the top 3 and Bundesliga". No there isn't. In fact, I hardly see a space between Italian and German league.

If you ever watch Italian football, you'll fall asleep. Unless it's AC Milan - Inter Milan. You're always on your feet when you watch a game like Bremen - Bayern, Schalke - Dortmund, Wolfsburg - Hoffenheim, etc. Much more exciting football. Genoa - Lazio bores me to death! The English were right when they said Italian league was boring. I tried defending the Italian league but once I kept on seeing it on FSC, I begged my dad to change to GolTv and we did (somehow ended up with both FSC and GolTv but I never watch FSC anymore unless it's EPL games).
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes it's fun to watch this:

1) Inter 59






2) Juventus 53




3) Milan 48


4) Fiorentina 45
5) Genoa 44
6) Roma 43




7) Lazio 38
8) Cagliari 37
9) Atalanta 36 / 10) Palermo 36
11) Napoli 35

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Like we don't know who the F will win the league. Inter Milan, Juve, and Ac Milan are all filled with old players that play no exciting football. Do you know how many mistakes in passing, crossing, and shooting I saw in the Milan Derby... Inter v. Milan?? Oh geez, that's like how many times Obama says "uh" in an hour speech (and I love Obama! :D).

Now this is Bundesliga:

1) Hertha 43
2) Hamburg 42
3) Hoffenheim 41


4) Bayern 38

5) Wolfsburg 36
6) Leverkusen 36

7) Schalke 34
8) Stuttgart 33 / 9) Dortmund 33



10) Koln 29

11) Bremen 27
 

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DAGOODS = RATINGS
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yeah and all thanks to Pizarro!
 

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Werder is not a bottom half team. It is just that this year they are playing bad otherwise they qualify for CL.
 

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It is a competetive league and especialy good stadiums and a lot of specs.

But for example hertha berlim ended in fourth place in their uefa group stage.

Miss a realy great european side apart from bayern who i have my doubts anyway,the cl group stage was acessible.

Joshua forgot to mention that fiorentina was eliminated by ajax,wolsbrug was eliminated clearly by p.s.g.

Dortmund in the first round by udinese,big iol to schalke.

So they have 3 teams in eurocups.

German teams were more stronger 6,7 years ago by far.
 

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its still fun to watch any game in italy.. it doesnt matter who will win the league, i like watching the team i like play, and win... germany is also a very fun league to watch, im tired of epl though, so annoying...
 

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Bundesliga is a great league for the neutral, the teams play with an offensive mentality, the games are usually very open and most of these teams are rather equal in terms of quality.

The defending in Bundesliga isn't very good though, there are usually big spaces between midfield and defenders which usually contributes to such an open game. I don't think the goalkeepers are of a high calibre either with an exception of Jaroslav Drobný at Hertha who has been absolutely superb for them this season, one of the main reasons why they're at the top of Bundesliga.
 

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Milan didn't play full strength in any UEFA match, and I also failed to notice in all those draw were we lost.

Also we dind't play Heerneveen at home. We beat them 3-1 away.

I like the German league, but on form most Italian teams would beat their German equals.
 

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Dortmund 2-0 Udinese

teams that have beaten Udinese
and 0-2, which is the reason why Dortmund are no more in UEFA Cup.

Anyway, I would not build arguments on the UEFA Cup.

More:

1) it's clear that Bayern are the best German club and not just the 4th even if they are right now 4th in Bundesliga. It is well known that participating in the European competitions affects the results in the championship
2) similarly it's clear that Werder Bremen are not the 11th German club even if right now they are 11th in Bundesliga
3) I consider the CL the real termometer of the quality of a league cause no club has a financial interest in being kicked out from it. Actually just a club managed by fools would do it. The numbers of Bundesliga in CL are: 3 clubs started and just 1 is in the 1/8 finals, the usual one, the one who is comparable to the other big European clubs.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
and 0-2, which is the reason why Dortmund are no more in UEFA Cup.

Anyway, I would not build arguments on the UEFA Cup.

More:

1) it's clear that Bayern are the best German club and not just the 4th even if they are right now 4th in Bundesliga. It is well known that participating in the European competitions affects the results in the championship
2) similarly it's clear that Werder Bremen are not the 11th German club even if right now they are 11th in Bundesliga
3) I consider the CL the real termometer of the quality of a league cause no club has a financial interest in being kicked out from it. Actually just a club managed by fools would do it. The numbers of Bundesliga in CL are: 3 clubs started and just 1 is in the 1/8 finals, the usual one, the one who is comparable to the other big European clubs.
Bayern Munich fell to 5th place today:

1 Hertha Berlin 22 43
2 Hamburger 22 42
3 Hoffenheim 22 41
4 Wolfsburg 22 39
5 Bayern München 22 39
6 Bayer Leverkusen 22 36
7 Stuttgart 22 36
8 Schalke 22 34
9 Dortmund 22 33

Bremen isn't even up there.
 

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Bayern Munich fell to 5th place today:

1 Hertha Berlin 22 43
2 Hamburger 22 42
3 Hoffenheim 22 41
4 Wolfsburg 22 39
5 Bayern München 22 39
6 Bayer Leverkusen 22 36
7 Stuttgart 22 36
8 Schalke 22 34
9 Dortmund 22 33

Bremen isn't even up there.
Bayern can fall to the last place and nothing will change my opinion that their national campaign is simply affected by the fact that they are participating in the Champions League.
 

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Buldesliga is certainly rising...their quality is distributed throughout the whole league with gream mid table team...
but ur stats are getting really annoying NBPZ
 

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Ignore NB, he's a bit of a clown.

Bundesliga is a decent league, fun to watch but the sides aren't that great. The defending is woeful though...
 
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