[Osman]

Legro and Boumsong werent even considered for the team when this season started, reserve players trying to be sold, frozen out. Chiellini wasnt even on the radar for that position whatsoever (if he was, we would have signed a proper LB instead of count him as LB and Molinaro merely as his backup) .

Grygera was signed for versatility, he is a CB who later turned competent RB. Exactly like another countryman of his Ujfalusi. Grygera was counted as being backup for Andrade and Criscito, and at the same time compete with Zebina for RB.

 

[D-Kin]

We never should have sold Balzaretti, it's as simple as that.

He made way for Molinaro.

 

[CinqueDiMaggio]

Stop being a revisionist! Chiellini had brief spells as CB under Deschamps (that's when we spotted a potential there), but he nevertheless started as LB under Ranieri - Andrade, Criscito and Grygera started in central defence before Chiellini was considered again for a central spot.

Despite the role he's given with the Czech national team, Grygera last played with Ajax... as a CB.

http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/sa0708/rom-juv.html

revisionist eh? seems to me he first started with juve as a RB.

as for chiellini i think he had more than a brief spell as a CB under deschamps especially when the regular backline featured birindelli, boumsong, chiellini and balzaretti.

 

[Steph!]

We never should have sold Balzaretti, it's as simple as that.

He made way for Molinaro.

http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showpost.php?p=5370920&postcount=16

 

[D-Kin]

http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showpost.php?p=5370920&postcount=16

I agree, very good points. :thumbsup:

The board have made some extremely puzzling decisions over the past year or so, Balzaretti being one of them.

 

[Steph!]

http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/sa0708/rom-juv.html

revisionist eh? seems to me he first started with juve as a RB.

as for chiellini i think he had more than a brief spell as a CB under deschamps especially when the regular backline featured birindelli, boumsong, chiellini and balzaretti.

It was by no means an unchanging backline. Kovac had some games as well before losing Deschamps' good graces, Zebina alternated with Birindelli on the right-hand side, Balzaretti kept switching flanks while Chiellini kept sliding central and sideways. 'Brief' may have been an understatement, yet the fact remains that he was considered primarily a LB in spite of the many fans, me included, calling early on for him to become a permanent fixture in the center.

Then in came Ranieri. Chiellini was still considered a LB and since you're so keen on C4 reports to prove your point, you'll have noticed that Chiello played on the left from matchday 1 to 5 before the combined fall from grace of Criscito and Andrade's ligaments injury forced him back.

Ranieri saw fit to play Grygera as a RB, but as I said he'd last played at club level, and succesfully so, as a CB and he wasn't Ranieri's signing.

 

[Rhizoid]

On the Salas reference, I think that was harsh. He was looking pretty good for us until that injury he got vs. Celtic in the CL...

As for Molinaro, he's not Juve material, and must leave the team. What's even more shocking, as mentioned on Page 1, that Salihamidzic is a crappier option...:sigh:

 

[Vinman]

I have been saying this since September... Molinaro has no business at this club. The player has no skill going forward, no marking ability, no tackling ability, and no brains whatsoever. Yet for some reason he continues to be fielded. I don't really give a rat's ass if he's our only left-back when Chiellini is fielded in the center. ****ing Salihamidzic, Nedved, or even Stendardo can provide us more than this dolt on the left flank. On Juventuz I've been warned several times for insulting this player, that's cool and all, but I don't care... he needs to be kicked in the ass and sent out the door. Too many people have been defending this useless player from what I've seen (maybe about 15 people out of 50) and even that's too much.

Molinaro is not even good enough to be a left-back for Empoli. Vargas, De Ceglie, Tonetto, Pasquale, Zauri, Balzaretti, Tosto, and others are better than this retard. Molinaro is one of the worst left-backs in Serie A without a shadow of a doubt.

We can't go one match without laughing at what he does on the pitch. Missing easy passes, letting the ball slide over his foot while receiving a pass moving at .5 meters per second, not closing down players whatsoever (as seen countless times and today), sending crosses into the stands despite no defenders being around him. I don't care if he made a good cross today... put me on the pitch and I'll hit a good cross one out of 200 ****ing times. And today this idiot decides it would be a good idea to let the ball bounce in our own box... thus letting Osvaldo score. I haven't seen such poor play since Salas was here. Good job dude. You're ****ing worthless.

Btw Andy, I'm still eager to know why you involved Salas...

Paramatti and Salas ??

You're stealing my thunder, Andy !!! p

 

[Andy]

On the Salas reference, I think that was harsh. He was looking pretty good for us until that injury he got vs. Celtic in the CL...

As for Molinaro, he's not Juve material, and must leave the team. What's even more shocking, as mentioned on Page 1, that Salihamidzic is a crappier option...:sigh:

Perhaps it was harsh because Salas actually had skill before joining Juventus, Molinaro did not. The dunce in the corner has always been a piece of shit.

 

[RoBi]

i don't think Molinaro has played badly at all. I don't knwo what the problem is. Offensively he has been fantastic. He is not zambrotta but for how he runs up and down the line....for me its enough to play him.
He has shown his ...gaffs, but in the end, i attribute it to experience and still being young.
I was also one of the people against the balzretti sale, but am confident that we dont have anything to worry about once molinaro feels more comfortable with his job.

As far as sissoko is concerned, i think he is fantastic. I don't think there is much differnece between him now and him in liverpool, only experience wise which will determine his consistency. His passing has been quite decent, but most of all he is an animal. He is huge and plays hard. Tha that alone makes me very happy. I cant complain for his technique. I am not expecting him to do anything technically....remember Gattusso.
Lets just say Sissooko is a natural and i thought the same thing since liverpool.
I think he could be the most important thing for Juventus.

 

[M.G.]

i don't think Molinaro has played badly at all. I don't knwo what the problem is. Offensively he has been fantastic. He is not zambrotta but for how he runs up and down the line....for me its enough to play him.
He has shown his ...gaffs, but in the end, i attribute it to experience and still being young.
I was also one of the people against the balzretti sale, but am confident that we dont have anything to worry about once molinaro feels more comfortable with his job.

As far as sissoko is concerned, i think he is fantastic. I don't think there is much differnece between him now and him in liverpool, only experience wise which will determine his consistency. His passing has been quite decent, but most of all he is an animal. He is huge and plays hard. Tha that alone makes me very happy. I cant complain for his technique. I am not expecting him to do anything technically....remember Gattusso.
Lets just say Sissooko is a natural and i thought the same thing since liverpool.
I think he could be the most important thing for Juventus.

Are you kidding? What has been so fantastic about him offensively? Out of his 178 attempts at crossing this season, for the most 16 have landed in the penalty area (estimate), 5 have been met by the target (estimate) and exactly 1 has been a goal. Van der Sar looks more comforatable on the ball than he does. His dribbling sucks badly, yet he still tries and when he passes the halfway line, I'd say his passing accuracy is about 33%, not to mention his horrible long balls. Running up and down the line isn't much justification for him if the output is nothing. Experience might be one reason, but he sucks technically, while his defending is average at best (his positioning is shit), nowhere near Juve desirable levels. All that said, I hope he proves me wrong, but he better do it before this season is over because i don't want to be owned by Cronaldo next season.

About Momo, i must say I am pleasantly suprised, I think the slower Italian game is better for him because he's not the passer and he has more time to decide his passes and not panic pass. I remember when he owned Barca last season in the CL, and I'm waiting to see what he does against Milan's midfield this season. The best thing though, is Nocerino is no longer a starter. He started to piss me off more than Molinaro.

 

[Andy]

LOL at what Robi said. Jesus fluck, he must not have seen about 18 matches this season.

 

[RoBi]

i've seen all of the games except against reginna. I don't know why you are so harsh with him especially when juve is known to have made worse purchases in the past.

I don't know if you remember correctly when Camo first came, but he was rediculously bad. He wasnt anything special untilthe last 4 years ...then he started to have consistency.

So lets not be so harsh on molinaro, as i am sure that if he were as bad as you make him to be, he would not be playing.

Anyway...lets watch todays game (which i can't wait), and disucuss his pros and cons.

 

[Steph!]

I don't know if you remember correctly when Camo first came, but he was rediculously bad. He wasnt anything special untilthe last 4 years ...then he started to have consistency.

He was so ridiculously bad he was an immediate starter after the summer camp and Lippi had to improvise so that Zambrotta could find a spot on the pitch.

What's wrong with you?

 

[RoBi]

now you are usingmy technique. The same could be said about molinaro and us being in 3rd place after loosing 5 very important if not the best players we had with molinaro pretty much a starter.


Don't be give me this "whats wrong with you" crap, Zambrotta moving to defense doesnt mean camo was such an important piece. He changed the game of juve, but incosistency was camos best friend. Certainly a lot better than zambrotta who had no ball control wahtsoever.
Plus Zambrotta himself was not the zambrotta that we know today. He was normal, but nothing spectacular. When he went to defense thats when he shined. Camoranesi was one of the most incosistent player in the beginning that there wasnt a week i wouldnt curse at this player. The nigerian center midfielder was more solid than him.

Ofcourse, as time went by he settled in and in the coming seasons he would become one of the best players of juve. He was probably the most important player juve had 2 years ago, but don't confuse his game in comparison to 6 years ago or whenever he came.

 

[Steph!]

I'm not confused, you are.

If the fact that Camoranesi wasn't as consistent when he joined as he became in 2005-2006 was the point you held dear, you could as well have acknowledged that the ridiculously bad tag was nonsensical in the first place and we'd not be having this truistic conversation.

Of course we're not being as patient nor lenient towards Molinaro as we've been to some of his predecessors. What baffles me here though is that in order to make your point, you actually compare the early days of someone whose talent, if nonchalant, was clear enough to everyone to a mediocre player like Molinaro whose lack thereof is equally patent and who'd still be warming the bench if it wasn't for a bad series of injuries.

In retrospect, Zambrotta moved to terzino sinsitro for the better. But Lippi took the decision because Camoranesi stellar debut had left him but no other choice. If Camoranesi hadn't impressed Lippi as well as respected opionisti like very much missed Tosatti (a costi-rendimenti, un giocatore estraordinario) and more importantly, the fans (thereat I invite you to browse the XT archive for confirmation), Lippi would've had reintegrated Zambrotta at RW when his injury lay-off was over, because that's the spot that had earned him to become a permanent fixture for the Azzurri despite the 'unspectacularity' you say he displayed there.

The Oliseh mention was obviously a brain-fart from you.

 

[Osman]

I'm not sure if you read the WF discussions Robi takes part in Steph, but everyone there has learned not to take Robi here too seriously (to the point him saying this about the supremely skilled younger Camo and comparing him with utterly B-level Molinaro, doesnt come as a shock).

No offence, but still consistently flimsy, confused and bizzare in his "opinions", its somehow an acheivement to be so blind to the reality of football stuff we see and take for granted.

 

[Minotti]

You know you're ol' school when.....



you've seen paramatti play for juve!

 

[Osman]

p

To "compliment" Molinaro a little bit atleast in the storm of scorn, Molinaro > Paramatti p

 

[Rhizoid]

Hey, Iaquinta's goal did come from a Molinaro build-up. (read: Lavezzi mis-hap )