[M.G.]

Would you keep him ahead of Marchisio? I know you wouldn't over Sissoko, and CZ needless to say is a starter in any scenario.

I don't see any use for Nocerino. For all that Sissoko's passing game has been lambasted (and rightly so at Liverpool), he seems to be working hard to refine it and his overall technique. Whereas Nocerino is regressing.

Criscito? Meh, i have no patience with him anymore. He got his chance and he spurned it, he's already surplus to requirements at Geno AFAIK.

I think we all tried to will these guys on to becoming great, but they're not cut to wear the jersey.

I think he has been a regular first-team player there and played 90 minutes on the weekend.

 

[Osman]

Craka, is it Marchiso who's humping Trez there?

Completing the midget&giant orgy

 

[M.G.]

Yeah

 

[Osman]

Heh, you work quick in your av making, just noticed the original pic was posted minutes ago

 

[M.G.]

I don't know, I found it from a link at juventuz.

 

[Osman]

Yeah I know you did, its why I mentionned it.

Btw, does Chiellini have a brother in our primavera? Because the catalogue Corvette posted, I found this previous primavera pic, and the dude second in the lower left looks exactly like Chiellini :dazed:

http://www.juventusmania.net/lpe427/Sebastian Giovinco/14supercoppaitaago20060iv0.jpg

In this one he is the one farhest to the upper left p

http://www.juventusmania.net/lpe427/Sebastian Giovinco/14supercoppaitaago20060wg2.jpg

 

[M.G.]

Lol, myself and some another member asked the same question in 2 different threads. No, it's not Chiellini's brother, "that's Rizza , a left back who playing for Juve Stabia this season on loan deal."

 

[Osman]

I bet he is better then Molinaro :stuckup:

 

[Nero]

Craka, my bad, he was initially on the bench but he's been playing more regularly the last couple of matches.

Well, that is the first season in Serie A for both Criscito and Nocerino, we can make a final judgement on them so fast. I remember the same words being said about Chiellini less than a year ago. Most of you were more than willing to see him go to ManCity and look at the situation right now...

Osman pretty much cleared that one up, although i admit i don't think anyone thought he'd become the stalwart he has, certainly not me. But in fairness, i don't think anyone questioned his usefulness at that point to the squad.

The issue is whether we can afford to keep guys like Nocerino, Palladino, Molinaro, etc in the squad when they're hardly impressing. What would this season be if we had to actually rely on them?

I would not keep them next season on the off chance they can amount to competent cover for us in the near future. You don't build a championship-winning side like that. As Glen said previously, our problem is we already have our quota of bit-part players, what we need now is some real quality to improve the squad.

We're going to have to get rid of the deadweight.

 

[Andrey]

Ok, thats true too, but Chiellini was clearly seen as dispensable by most of the fans. And while he hasnt shown as much promise as a LB as in the centre of the defense, showing some faith in a 23 year old youngster actually is paying off right now.
Nocerino clearly has the physical atributes to be good DM, im more sceptical about Criscito and he hasnd done anything to justify the initial hype, neither here nor in Genoa, but he is 21, lets wait at lest another year before discarding him completely.
Molinaro and Nocerino are probably the most criticzed players here and i fail to understand why- they are young, they dont get paid much, they may be limited , but at least try hard, which is not enough, but will help them improve eventually. Its not Molinaro fault there is no other left back in the squad, its not Nocerinos fault that Tiago looks like he doesnt care to play football anymore.
Particularly for the game against Fiorentina, Grygera was far more frustrating than Molinaro and he is supposed to be an experienced international defender, who as he came on Bosman is getting 4-5 more money than Molinaro i suspect...
If we are going to get rid of the dead weight, why start with the youngest and the least paid players?

 

[Nero]

It's about striking the right balance between the proper dose of catch and release with underachievers, and having the patience to give players with potential time to develop.

Now, Molinaro is 24. To me, with the amount of time he's had to play and consequently suck this season, his cut off period is this summer. If you don't agree, then it's basically because we have an irreconcilable difference on the time line. I have said previously that he would probably be decent cover, but that's really resigning him to a Birindelli level of mediocrity, i.e. replaceable at best at really any point in his career.

Nocerino, okay he's young and showed some potential, but he shouldn't be going backward after a strong start. That's not how you prove you should be playing at a club like Juve. And we already have CZ and Sissoko, with Marchisio showing promise at Empoli and very likely to return. The fact that Nocerino can hussle doesn't make him better than your average Serie B destroyer, let alone a mid-table Serie A club. So how is that good enough for us?

Criscito, sure. Give him another season at Genoa, give him two. But i don't want us to be in the situation where we have to rely on someone like him when we're going up against Roma. And that's just being honest about the quality of depth we need after this shambolic edition of our defence.

I know i'm being a bit harsh on them, but this whole generation has gotten a golden opportunity to make their mark, something many others before them didn't have. If the best they can come up with is a half-assed advocacy to be squad players, then we can do better surely.

 

[Andrey]

If the best they can come up with is a half-assed advocacy to be squad players, then we can do better surely.

Why?
For me having 5-6 "home grown" players in the squad with the hope that one or two of them can become good enough to start for us is the optimal model.

And regarding Molinaro, no, im not advocating for a second chance for him. He was brought as a cover for Chiellini, no one had any expectations for him before the start of the season. And yes, he is mediocre, but getting rid of him wont bring much money. So lets accept that he is a cheap backup player who at the moment is starting for us as the result of the managerial incompetence.

 

[Nero]

I'm all for having a healthy amount of Italian back up too, just not comprising of who we have at the moment.

Btw, I agree with the criticism of Grygera and Salahamidzic, they are just as bad culprits even worse given their wages. I'm not picking on the Italian youngsters, i really want to see Giovinco and Marchisio next season, and possibly De Ceglie as well (can't be worse than Molinaro).

I'm just saying, we need to be realistic about who we keep and expect to develop.

 

[Stephan]

I think we are a bit too hard on Nocerino. His still 22 years old.

The reason why sissoko whos also young looks better, is that he has played in the highest level more then nocerino. Nocerino is still finding his place in the midfield, and if your bound to play sometimes in the middle, sometimes on the right and give crosses then this wont help.
I say we loan him out for next season, its not like his wages are sky high. We cant just get rid of all younger players, especially if we are supposed to do some rebuilding, rejuvenation here.

Theres loads of players we could get rid off, or correctly said, should get. (pretty much 75% of defenders, tiago, marchionni(he will be 28! in the summer), and if we add to that aging nedved and that our main strike duo will be in the 30-s.....

Lets first get rid of players who actually havent even given effort, like marchionni, honestly i dont want to see him here next season, we probably aint gona get more then 2-3 millions but that doesnt matter anyway.

Lets not forget that if the unthinkable :tongue: happens and we play in 2008/2009 CL, we need to choose our list of players who will take part of that. And if we want to have some joy in CL, we better dont have injury prone players on the list just for the sake of having the right amount of players.

 

[Andy]

Nocerino has talent when it comes to destroying, but what else does he have? Positional sense? Not really. Passing skills? Absolutely not. Dribbling ability? Haha.

He's still a young player, yes, but he will never be of much use to us until we have players around him that can pass the ball. Nocerino shouldn't be looking for passes beyond a few yards in all honesty.

 

[Hasuni]

Well, that is the first season in Serie A for both Criscito and Nocerino, we can make a final judgement on them so fast. I remember the same words being said about Chiellini less than a year ago. Most of you were more than willing to see him go to ManCity and look at the situation right now...

I was one of the most vocal about my desire to sell Chiellini to Man City, and I still maintain that the money they offered for Chiellini The leftback was really good. But then he moved to CB and the rest is history...

With hindsight it was a good move to keep him, I must confess .

 

[CinqueDiMaggio]

i don't mind grygera as a RB. i think he's better than zebina. salahamidzic i think is unfairly criticised given his characteristics. i've said this countless times, if one expects a bonafide winger it's more likely to squeeze blood from a stone. at the end of the day he is a versatile player for defensive coverage who can play either spot as a WB (good idea to try him instead of molinaro) and is useful on the wing should a time in the game come when we need some defensive coverage to shut down a winger in the latter part of a game. that's what he is and anyone who expects more from him really has unreasonable expectations.

as for nocerino?? well, i think i've said my piece throughout the season so to not sound repetitive, i'll leave it for you lot to hammer him now however, who would i be if i atleast didn't give a parting shot to that useless piece of garbage. nero said it best so if i could re-iterate, he is not any better than a serie B mucker. and that's all he'll ever amount to.

 

[Osman]

Zebina has been better then Grygera at all times. And Grygera is signed for backup versatility, considering his original position is CB and he is supposed to cover up CB. And he is by far our worst CB on the roster with the performances he has there. Horrid. That useless Lazio loan should be should be used more before I see Grygera not even bother in his positioning anymore.

Its similar to Sala, he is versatile, but that matters little when he is useless everywhere. Especially at RB which he was worse then even Molinaro, but at midfield he can be ok in hardwork. Though he would put in the kind of offensive work like Nocerino would in RM, which is little. And considering we play with two dms and lack creativity, its extra useless to use someone like Sala in a RM position where we need creative force there.

 

[CinqueDiMaggio]

Zebina has been better then Grygera at all times. And Grygera is signed for backup versatility, considering his original position is CB and he is supposed to cover up CB. And he is by far our worst CB on the roster with the performances he has there. Horrid. That useless Lazio loan should be should be used more before I see Grygera not even bother in his positioning anymore.

Its similar to Sala, he is versatile, but that matters little when he is useless everywhere. Especially at RB which he was worse then even Molinaro, but at midfield he can be ok in hardwork. Though he would put in the kind of offensive work like Nocerino would in RM, which is little. And considering we play with two dms and lack creativity, its extra useless to use someone like Sala in a RM position where we need creative force there.

your justification for grygera makes little sense because when the season started we already had 4 CBs (chiellini, andrade, criscito, legrotagglie) and i don't know too many teams who carry 5 CBs. with only zebina, molinaro and half of birindelli, logic would suggest he was brought in for the RB which is the spot he regularly played with ajax and the czech republic.

in interviews he says he's more of a terzino destro because of his characteristics. the czechs always use him there but yet if you guys say he's a CB, all the power to you. i'm not going to waste any more time arguing this futile point.

as for sala, i think you misunderstood me. i never said he's useful as a RM i said he's useful to close down the wing IN THE LATTER PART OF THE MATCHES SHOULD THE NEED PERSIST.

 

[Steph!]

your justification for grygera makes little sense because when the season started we already had 4 CBs (chiellini, andrade, criscito, legrotagglie) and i don't know too many teams who carry 5 CBs. with only zebina, molinaro and half of birindelli, logic would suggest he was brought in for the RB which is the spot he regularly played with ajax and the czech republic.

in interviews he says he's more of a terzino destro because of his characteristics. the czechs always use him there but yet if you guys say he's a CB, all the power to you. i'm not going to waste any more time arguing this futile point.

as for sala, i think you misunderstood me. i never said he's useful as a RM i said he's useful to close down the wing IN THE LATTER PART OF THE MATCHES SHOULD THE NEED PERSIST.

Stop being a revisionist! Chiellini had brief spells as CB under Deschamps (that's when we spotted a potential there), but he nevertheless started as LB under Ranieri - Andrade, Criscito and Grygera started in central defence before Chiellini was considered again for a central spot.

Despite the role he's given with the Czech national team, Grygera last played with Ajax... as a CB.