[Razor]

Hell has apparently officially frozen over - Benfica captain Joao Pinto has resigned from Benfica, citing difficulties with trainer Jupp Heynckes (who he says, "doesn't like Portuguese players").

50,000 angry Benfiquistas have descended upon Estadio da Luz to lynch JVA and/or Heynckes. This sounds like a joke, but it's not.

Once the dust clears, this will go down as the best offseason move of the summer for Benfica.

In the wake of JVP's departure, Paulo Madeira is indicating that he may be leaving as well.

Joao Pinto played with heart and courage for Benfica for years, and he'll go down in history as a great player; but his time at Benfica had come to an end, and I think this is the best thing for the club.

FORCA BENFICA!!!

 

[Marco]

Benfica is finished...sure they may get more talented players...but they will surely miss that fire that that gruesome SOB JVP would play with....there are some things that you just can't replace...and I think that I hate him more than anyone on all of XTRATIME.

------------------
FOREVER PORTO!
FOREVER THE NORTH!
SEMPRE PORTUGAL!

http://www.fcporto-online.com

 

[RedEagle]

I am in complete agreement with you Razor! This is the best move Benfica has made in since getting JVP. He was indeed a great player...but not anymore.

 

[Razor]

Right on RedEagle (who says "right on" anymore?!) - it's a mirror situation of what happened to Roberto Baggio at Inter this year, who like JVP is a living legend in his country. Inter coach Marcello Lippi was crucified in the press for not using Baggio every match and what do you know? Inter made it to the CL next year. They wouldn't have if Baggio had played every game as the fans had demanded.

It's the same with JVP - Benfica has a better chance of putting a complete TEAM on the field now as opposed to one star who accounts for nearly 40% of the team's total payroll surrounded by a bunch of marginal players.

I just hope it doesn't have a negative effect on the seleccao!

Forca Benfica!
Forca Portugal!

 

[SLB]

last year pinto was on the verge of signing for coruna at an estimated 2.5 million contos o.k so he wouldnt be as value but he doesnt fall from 2.5 million contos to nothing in a year.
If we had to sell him o.k sell him for money but for free is totally beyond belief and defies logic.
All this crap he gets 40% of the teams payroll is complete and utter bolox he is the best payed player at benfica but last year he was only earning marginally more than thomas and he is definately not on 40% of the payroll where u got that from well i can only guess it was at dinner with jva.

 

[Santamaria]

i'm sure we only know a fraction of what really happened, can't wait for the full details.

I don't think Heynckes and JVA will be there in a years time.

I may be a Sportinguista but i'm sad for pinto as he's been treated very badly.

you're turning on him allegedly because he wouldn't take a pay cut. I've never heard of a player renegotiating a paycut mid-contract.

 

[NelsonD]

Marcoa,

I agree with you 100%, sometimes a player's role extends further than the quantitative indicators we as fans embrace. Sure he hasn't had the finishing touches, but he was never a natural striker to begin with.

I am worried, if Porto picks him up. Can you inmagine? Joao pinto behind Jardel and Capucho!!!! that would reduce the portuguese league from 3 to 2; SCP and FC Porto.

I know all about financial circumstances, however, I believe this was a cowardly move to ameliorate Benfica's financial woes!

All in all, I wish the best for Joao Pinto-greatest player since Eusebio! Moreover, I am confident he will shine next week in Euro, and end up in Spain or Italy!

DAMN!!!! What do I do with my beloved Joao Pinto jersey????????

 

[Marco]

greatest player since Eusebio? What are you smoking?

What about Colunha (spelling?)? Futre?FIGO?

please...JVP..greatest player since Eusebio....pffff....

------------------
FOREVER PORTO!
FOREVER THE NORTH!
SEMPRE PORTUGAL!

http://www.fcporto-online.com

 

[NelsonD]

First off Marcoa, I don't smoke!! hahah Secondly, please read my post under "JVP to Monaco" there you will find my rationalization regarding JVP's stature.

Plus, last time I checked, JVP had more goals for the seleccao than future, figo and colunha! Moreover, he is the second behind Eusebio, so I feel my statement is quite accurate. I am not going to suggest that goals are the sole measure of quality, but the people on this board are somewhat short-sighted!

 

[Marco]

Sniper,

A players weight cannot be measured in goals alone. Many of JVP's goals came against super powers like Liechenstein and/or Malta. If we were to measure players like that than Paulo Alves would be a great player because I think that he has 2 hat tricks in like 4 caps. What about great players like Franz Beckenbaur who defender goals rather than scored them?.Beckenbaur is a million times the player JVP is and he does not have as many goals for Germany (I THINK!) as JVP does for Portugal.The way I measure a player is consistency. Figo has proved to be Portugal's most consistent player game in game out since as far back as I remember. Where was JVP in the Romania and Germany games...talk about his ball control and when he fooled the entire German defense all you want but the bottom line is the ball DID NOT cross the line. Figo saved our asses twice this season when he scored those goals against Romania and Azerbaijan (surprise!surprise!). Figo plays for Barcelona, the worlds second premier club behind manUre. Pinto is a free agent.
I respect the fact that JVP wanted to play all his career in Lisbon and I think that many Benfiquistas are blinded by his loyalty and lose their objectivity when talking about who is the best player on the national team. I will say that no one plays harder than JVP on the seleccao, but when the game is on the line and we need that key pass/penalty kick/free kick/shot.....I would put my faith on barcelona's #7. What was his name again? FIGO.

------------------
FOREVER PORTO!
FOREVER THE NORTH!
SEMPRE PORTUGAL!

http://www.fcporto-online.com




[This message has been edited by Marcoa (edited 06-06-2000).]

 

[Razor]

#7 para sempre!

JVP plays like a man possessed on the national team, but has been the invisible man for Benfica the past two seasons. The team is better without him. I wish him well, but to say he's the best player since Eusebio is stretching it. When the careers of both are finished, I think the "2nd-best behind Eusebio" label will go to Figo!

As far as these arguments about assessing JVP's worth in Portugal vs. Italia or Espanha - I think it's a moot point. It doesn't matter if the best-paid player's salary in the primeira liga equals the average or below-average salary in Serie A or wherever. The financial realities are as such that Benfica just doesn't have the same financial resources as those other clubs.

Here's an example (and I'm using these numbers as examples - I don't know what Lazio's total payroll is exactly, but I'm using this to illustrate a point): Maybe a role player can make $5M a year in salary for a club like Lazio who has a payroll of $80M a year, but if you're a team like Benfica who only has a total payroll of $20M, then $5M is too much to spend on any player. It's all relative - maybe some other team in a league where the money grows on trees can afford JVP and not think twice about it, but if an inordinate amount of Benfica's payroll is going to one player, then he had best perform or the money should be spent elsewhere.

One other point I'd like to stress - JVA & Heynckes certainly aren't entirely free of blame here. The timing was horrible (right before Euro2000), it's a PR nightmare after the season Benfica just had, and I can't imagine they couldn't have gotten SOMETHING for him on the transfer market. But it's done - the question now is: what does Benfica do with the money they're allegedly saving?

No one will know for certain how good/bad a decision this was until this time next year.

Forca Benfica!

 

[SLB]

O.k pintos would have gained 1.5 million contos if his contract ran over in to 2004 so if their is any saving it would have been in 2004. This is JVA's wage so it is quite likely to be a lie but anyway pinto is not the second after eusebio far from it he is probably one of the top 3 to 4 players that played for benfica in the 90's.
Already linked with him have been monaco, sporting, porto, tottenham, valencia and leeds. O.k so free has helped but some of these teams have reportedly wanted to offer him more than he was winning at benfica and a huge signing on fee. I think the case that they couldnt sell him is complete bollox and ven if the case was that he couldnt find a buyer for pinto why didnt he wait till after the euro as clubs may have become interested in him.
P.S to the question what will benfica do with their APPARENT saving?
My opinion very probable buy a foreigner and a reject at that.

 

[NelsonD]

Marcoa,

You made some valid points in your rebuttal, and you are right, goals are not always the sole determinant of quality. And you go on to suggest that my objectivity is blurred by his passion and determination-point well taken! Don't get me wrong Figo is a GREAT PLAYER, one of the very best! However, I feel that the guys who support Figo, like JVP and Rui get lost in his shadow solely because he plays for a high-profile team!

And YOU ARE RIGHT, HE DID SAVE US AGAINST ROMANIA and licheswhatever!!!

 

[Marco]

There is nothing wrong with having JVP as your favorite player...look at me. my favorite player is a toss-up between Zahovic, Hagi and Concecaio. I can never decide which player is my undisputed #1 favorite player, however I will not go around and start "Concecaio is Portugal's #1 player...bla bla bla" cause that title belongs to Figo.

Portugals 3 best players now are:
1. Figo
2. Rui Costa
3. Concecaio

however an on-form Paulo Sousa or Vitor Baia takes the #3 spot.

JVP would be like #6 or 7 on the team.

As for hardest workers:
1. JVP
2. Paulinho

------------------
FOREVER PORTO!
FOREVER THE NORTH!
SEMPRE PORTUGAL!

http://www.fcporto-online.com

 

[NelsonD]

Hey Meu amigo Joao, PICK VALENCIA! Wouldn't that be great, my two favourite players; Joao and Luis battling in Spain. Maybe Rui will join them!!!

Viva o Joao Pinto
Viva o Luis Figo
Viva o Rui Costa
Viva PORTUGAL in EURO!!!!!
and last but not least(even though they sold my MAN!!!!)
VIVA BENFICA!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------
Author formerly known as Sniper!

 

[NelsonD]

Marcoa,

Hold on! PLease don't tell me you think conceicao is the third best player? As for Joao Pinto being the 6th or 7th...come on.

Currently,
1) Rui Costa & Figo, i will give you that
2) Joao Pinto
3) Coceicao at times, he is very inconsistent!!! he was horrible against wales, his crosses were brutal

------------------
Author formerly known as Sniper!

 

[Marco]

Concecaio has not been shown confidence by Bobo Coelho. I think that with Sergio on the left and Figo on the
right we would be able to put a lot of pressure on opposing defenses. And
the benefit also lies in the fact that both figo and Sergio can exchange
positions at any time. My main concern is still Sa' Pinto. If he can't
score, then we aren't going very far. Personally I think he isn't a center
forward. I think he is better suited for a Capucho-like position. His best
quality is the never say die attitude he brings to every game. The problem
I see with JVP is that he overlaps to much with Rui Costa in the center of
the field. The result is Rui playing further back on the field and not
being the creative force we need him to be. Anyway I look at it I would
prefer that JVP sit on the bench and go into the game when we need a spark.
He could be our "joker" that we send into the game to see if we can turn it
around.


anyways I got a bit off track there. if you read carefully to what I said, I also wrote that a healthy Sousa or Baia is the #3 player. Concecaio is younger, and much more gifted at the current stage of his career than JVP is at his.

Sniper I don't want this turning into a Porto-benfica debate. Somehow I think that you think that i feel Concecaio is the 3rd best player on the seleccao because he is a Portista....I hope you don't think that


------------------
FOREVER PORTO!
FOREVER THE NORTH!
SEMPRE PORTUGAL!

http://www.fcporto-online.com

 

[NelsonD]

No not at all, I also think conceicao is a great player(at times) and your analysis of Joao pinto and Rui is right on. I have been saying that all along, Joao Pinto is NOT a striker!!!!

Ideally I would love to see Joao Pinto, Rui and figo in the midfield, with Pauleta and Nuno Gomes up front. BUt we will se what the coelho does!!!!!

FORCA PORTUGAL!!!!!! by the way the site looks SWEET!!!!!!!

------------------
Author formerly known as Sniper!

 

[Marco]

but don't you think that JVP wouldn't be better as a 2nd half sub.

Reasons:

1. he is very quick. So he is fresher each day and his stamina will not get drained game in game out.
2. He has great ball control--great for those times we have to hold the lead.
3. His stamina is not what it used to be.

------------------
FOREVER PORTO!
FOREVER THE NORTH!
SEMPRE PORTUGAL!

http://www.fcporto-online.com

 

[NelsonD]

Sub?? I can't agree there. I think his skill and presence is needed as a starter. Remember against Italy, when he didn't start, our offensive was horrible. I think we have the skills to somke the Italians. Plus there is always 2 and sometimes 3 defenders on him, which creates space for our strikers!