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Discussion Starter #1
Interesting interview with Alberto DeRossi- Roma's primavera coach:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...th-coach-on-romas-vision-pallottas-revolution

He states the obvious:

“It's enormous, the gap between youth level and the first team. Here in Italy, we haven't been able to bridge it yet, unfortunately. Other countries haven't completely closed this gulf—of experience, pace, intensity, everything—but they have an intermediate category in between the Primavera and the senior squad. Either they have the reserves, or they have a B team that plays in a lower division. Either way, it gives the youth another experience.

“In Spain, a lot of teams have second teams in the third division, where they play normally. Then, if they win, they get promoted. OK, if they win Serie B they don't move up, like Barcelona for example, but the young guys get to play a proper championship.

“Our colleagues with the national team see it too, for example when Italy U19 plays another country, where 15 or 16 players in the group have already played in important senior competitions at club level, and our team is still playing in the Primavera. The difference is huge. Imagine going from the Primavera to the senior team in Serie A—it's almost impossible.”



B teams are a must - the longer Italy waits before they allow them the far they will fall behind.
 

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^Oh, the possibilities are endless.
 

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Are a must for the traditional serie A clubs (including my Sampdoria), who, thanks to B team, wouldn't have worry about loaning players out to a different club with all the risks that loans to a different club imply, but would kill for good football in towns which are already suffering from financial crisis and whose clubs survive thanks to the amount of players loaned out by bigger clubs. Is the death of these clubs a good thing? I don't think so. The presence of football in as many places as possible is crucial for the development of players as much as the factors De Rossi Sr mentions if not more. We have less talents right now also because way too many clubs can't afford to develop them any more for a matter of costs and with the B teams things are just going to be worse.
 

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Italian teams in Serie A might benefit from creating better relationships with Serie B clubs or even Lega Pro ecce...

North American sports (hockey, baseball) have the "farm team" system....

I agree with Toni that "B" teams could hurt the other sports towns that rely on the current system.
 

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I definitely think that there's a correlation with this and the strong home grown players that the major Spanish teams have.

It just doesn't sit well to have a B team in the lower divisions personally. So if they win Serie B they don't move up? Just seems strange.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Are a must for the traditional serie A clubs (including my Sampdoria), who, thanks to B team, wouldn't have worry about loaning players out to a different club with all the risks that loans to a different club imply, but would kill for good football in towns which are already suffering from financial crisis and whose clubs survive thanks to the amount of players loaned out by bigger clubs. Is the death of these clubs a good thing? I don't think so. The presence of football in as many places as possible is crucial for the development of players as much as the factors De Rossi Sr mentions if not more. We have less talents right now also because way too many clubs can't afford to develop them any more for a matter of costs and with the B teams things are just going to be worse.
You have to identify your priorities as unfortunately there is no solution that will let you have everything. Is the priority to improve your talents and produce players who can help raise the quality of the league and NT? Or is it the nostalgic feeling of having traditional clubs who are barely surviving on players on loan? Those clubs offer nothing but nostalgia. They don't even contribute to the quality of football in their leagues, they have no infrastructure, and they have no future. They are barely surviving on their names. Survival for the fittest is a natural law, and if those clubs can't figure out way of surviving other than being parasites on the big clubs, then maybe it is better if they seize to exist. The football in the country will lose nothing if that happens.

The presence of football in as many places as possible is crucial for the development of players as much
How come? I see no correlation whatsoever. But I am happy to read more elaboration.

If a young player in an X town is good enough but it doesn't have a club, I am sure many teams in Y and Z towns will be more than happy to sign him. If young players are being signed from other countries and even continents, I doubt being from other town would be a big limiting factor.
 

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You have to identify your priorities as unfortunately there is no solution that will let you have everything. Is the priority to improve your talents and produce players who can help raise the quality of the league and NT? Or is it the nostalgic feeling of having traditional clubs who are barely surviving on players on loan? Those clubs offer nothing but nostalgia. They don't even contribute to the quality of football in their leagues, they have no infrastructure, and they have no future. They are barely surviving on their names. Survival for the fittest is a natural law, and if those clubs can't figure out way of surviving other than being parasites on the big clubs, then maybe it is better if they seize to exist. The football in the country will lose nothing if that happens.
Are you the Hitler of Italian football? :pp
It is not (just) a matter of nostalgia. The minor clubs have always been crucial for the production and development of talent and they should be helped rather than killed, unless you think that 20 clubs can do all the job (which is absurd). Parasites of the big clubs? I'd talk about symbionts. BTW these B teams would soon be filled with foreign players even more than the Primaveras are now as an obvious consequence of the situation I described.

How come? I see no correlation whatsoever. But I am happy to read more elaboration.
Read above

If a young player in an X town is good enough but it doesn't have a club, I am sure many teams in Y and Z towns will be more than happy to sign him. If young players are being signed from other countries and even continents, I doubt being from other town would be a big limiting factor.
I think you are talking about players whose qualities have been already developed. But who developed them if not the club of the town "X"?
Come on, I know your one interest is that Roma win the scudetto no matter whether they field 11 players from Alaska. :pp
 

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Italian teams in Serie A might benefit from creating better relationships with Serie B clubs or even Lega Pro ecce...

North American sports (hockey, baseball) have the "farm team" system....

I agree with Toni that "B" teams could hurt the other sports towns that rely on the current system.
How about this? Serie A teams could form official partnerships with lower league teams. Ok, the fans would probably first not like the idea that, say, Modena is suddenly Milan's farm team. But they would get used to it, especially if it meant seeing better players. Then just add some limitations. The two teams can't be drawn together in Coppa, for example. Or if a team is promoted to Serie A, they must end the partnership.
 

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Why is this even an issue? Italys/Serie A's lack of talent has very little to do with this. We've had this same format for as long as Ive followed football and it didnt stop pirlo, pippo, nesta etc from coming through and making it to the very elite.

Toni is right about it being a money issue more than anything else. Teams cant afford to invest in youth. Look how 90% of serie a teams operate in the transfer market. It's like going to your nearest fruit market where people scream about the low priced offers they have and everybody is trying to squeeze the best(cheapest) deal. This has been going on for so long now. Toni is still playing in serie a, as is floccari ffs!!!
 

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If it is lack of money then why is so much spent on foreigners, many of whom are of dubious quality.

I read an article recently which stated that on average in Germany 4.5% of BL clubs income is spent on their academies, compared to an average of 2.5% in Serie A.
 

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How about this? Serie A teams could form official partnerships with lower league teams. Ok, the fans would probably first not like the idea that, say, Modena is suddenly Milan's farm team. But they would get used to it, especially if it meant seeing better players. Then just add some limitations. The two teams can't be drawn together in Coppa, for example. Or if a team is promoted to Serie A, they must end the partnership.
Inter already has this with our partnership with AC Prato. Think this is the way to go instead of B teams because of the reasons Toni mentioned.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I don't really understand the people who use the argument.. but but it worked in the past. Not only in football but in anything. Life changes and what worked 10 years ago will sure as hell won't work today. If anything not allowing change is a well known proven recipe for failure.


As exemplified by status of Serie A currently.. but nostalgia is a great sedative of critical thinking sometimes.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I think you are talking about players whose qualities have been already developed. But who developed them if not the club of the town "X"?
Kids are being signed as young as 8 year old. You don't need club X that lacks the basics of infrastructure to grow a talent properly.. If a kid shows the slightest signs of talent playing in his schoolyard, there will be countless scouts at his parent's house by dinner to sign him.

Speaking of which, check out Roma's latest addition :D

JE9XI3Bl60U
 

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Kids are being signed as young as 8 year old. You don't need club X that lacks the basics of infrastructure to grow a talent properly.. If a kid shows the slightest signs of talent playing in his schoolyard, there will be countless scouts at his parent's house by dinner to sign him.

Speaking of which, check out Roma's latest addition :D
I wish this guy to reach the NT but it's obvious that he might also become amateur football material, while another 8 years old guy with better chances to reach the NT might be hidden somewhere instead. Maybe in that X club who right have the means to survive, while in the future, with the B-teams...
The presence of good clubs of football everywhere is crucial, big clubs alone can't develop enough players and and without minor clubs more players from foreign countries would be picked.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
I don't know why we are arguing these hypothetical situations of provincial clubs getting extinct and young players production declining because of the introduction of B teams when we have living examples from Spain, Germany and England. These countries have B teams/reserve teams and still have functioning provisional clubs (more than Italy by the way), they also have been producing more quality young players recently.

..and if you are worried about B team being filled with foreigner kids, then simply but a cap on how many they could sign. They will have no choice but look for quality local talents and nurture them via their already established academies and infra structure. Just imagine all the possibilities.
 

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I don't know why we are arguing about these hypothetical situations of provincial clubs getting extinct and young players production declining because of the introduction of B teams when we have living examples from Spain, Germany and England. These countries have B teams/reverse teams and still have functioning provisional clubs (more than Italy by the way), they also have been producing more quality young players recently.

..and if you are worried about B team being filled with foreigner kids, then simply but a cap on how many they could sign. They will have no choice but look for quality local talents and nurture them via their already established academies and infra structure. Just imagine all the possibilities.
Instead, I wonder in what way B-teams would increase the production of talents when it's obvious the two things are not connected in any way. The one purpose of B-teams is keeping under the strict control of a club players who could be a cost if loaned out to other clubs.
It's also funny that you include England in the equation when the results of the English NT have been dire in ages and the results of their clubs have no connection to the production of English talent.
BTW the B-teams in the countries you mention existed even when Italian clubs dominated football, so I really don't understand what makes them so necessary from a technical point of view. Infact they aren't needed at all for technical reason. The guy who got lost after beig loaned to that particularly unreliable club of Lega Pro was loaned to that particular club of Lega Pro because he didn't look that good, otherwise he would have been loaned to a better club. The more promising players who are loaned out always succeed sooner or later. The real problem is the development before they join the big club as the big clubs can't have a full control of all the boys playing in Italy and clubs who work properly are needed to develop all the ones who escape the sieve of the big clubs (a huge percent for obvious reasons). In order to work properly these minor clubs need the money they obtain from bigger clubs for developping their players. It's a chain.
Finally, there is no way clubs accept caps of any kind and you are deluded if you think otherwise.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
when it's obvious the two things are not connected in any way.
I just posted above the words of a youth coach who eloquently pointed out the link to you. He obviously knows the situation better than both of us.

Also 95% of Spain squad that won the world cup and Germany squad that won the world cup were graduates from B team. So I'd strongly argue that there is a strong link here.


there is no way clubs accept caps of any kind and you are deluded if you think otherwise.
Huh?

Last I checked the 3 non-EU spot rule was working to a good effect. So I don't know why you'd think a similar cap for B teams regarding non-Italian players won't work. It is a league not a jungle. You can apply whatever rule you think fit and clubs have no choice but comply.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The guy who got lost after beig loaned to that particularly unreliable club of Lega Pro was loaned to that particular club of Lega Pro because he didn't look that good, otherwise he would have been loaned to a better club. The more promising players who are loaned out always succeed sooner or later.
Not entirely true. There are countless examples of players who were highly rated in Primavera and failed to make the step to the first team and fell between the cracks being loaned to shitty Seire B and Lega pro. The 18-20 year old is probably the most crucial in a youngster development and in Italy it is usually wasted with no guidance or real development under the eyes of the shitty underqualified underachieving coaches of lower leagues. The other choice for the highly rated is to keep them with the first team warming the benches and wasting precious time that could've spent developing and gaining valuable experience.

I am happy to name to you all the Roma talents that lighten up different Primavera levels and then were lost completely in the jungles of lower leagues.
 

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I just posted above the words of a youth coach who eloquently pointed out the link to you. He obviously knows the situation better than both of us.
:shakepalm:

You obviously trust whomever just because "he obviously knows the situation better than you", so if a plumber tells you you have to change every pipe in the toilet he is right even if you have the feeling there is just a pipe which needs to be fixed.

Also 95% of Spain squad that won the world cup and Germany squad that won the world cup were graduates from B team. So I'd strongly argue that there is a strong link here.
And the Italian team which won the world cup in 2006 didn't so I'd suggest your link is not there any more.




Huh?

Last I checked the 3 non-EU spot rule was working to a good effect. So I don't know why you'd think a similar cap for B teams regarding non-Italian players won't work. It is a league not a jungle. You can apply whatever rule you think fit and clubs have no choice but comply.
Italy = EU ?
 
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