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Discussion Starter #1
I just want to send out my condolences to any Shi'ites on this board - I am really upset and disappointed that Muslims are targeting Muslims like this especially today when we should be showing our respect to the Prophet's (saw) grandson Imam al-Husayn. We have enough problems to deal with without causing fitna in the umma.
 

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Thanx Natalya for your words, i appreciate that..

you are right "We have enough problems to deal with without causing fitna in the umma" those who bumb us insted of showing their respect to our Imam, must be bunished :mad: but who are they?!
 

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That massacre is nothing but a cowardic acts from people who used to do such acts!

Anyway,shi'it in Iraq must change their strategy towards those americans who are occupying their land, I believe what shi'its doing apart from some silly self-punishments is jacksh!t!

They must reconsider their position in Iraq instead of kissing americanarses!
 

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Yestersay's massacre shamed all of us Muslims. It's true that we opposed the US's invasion of Iraq, but what is done is done. There is no use for causing more mischief. Iraqis have had enough in the past 25 years.

Having lived in the Eastern part of Saudi Arabia where the Shia make up around 30% of the population. I am aware of the problems between the two sects. Although we never had any kind of violence or hate crimes, at least not in the past 20-30 years, and we get along fine as schoolmates and colleagues, we are aware of our differences and never intermarry. We Sunnis love and respect Imam Hussein and all the other Imams, but generally look with disdain and sometime disgust to what the Shia do in Ashura (The Shia in KSA never go as far as Iranians and Iraqis). But that never causes any Sunni to resort to violence. What intices some radical Sunnis to have animosities is the way Shia attack the chastity of Sayeda Ayesha and the integrity of Caliphs Abu Bakr and Omar to the point of "takfeer". Hasan Nasrallah the leader of Hizbollah urged the Shia to stop this type of bashing, unfortunately many Shia clerics continue to do so. I am certainly that once Shia stop this sort of bashing, 90% of our problems will disappear. Tapes of such sermons are widely circulated, which fuels the hatred of radical Sunni youth to the point of committing crimes, especially in places where the central governments are weak (Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan).
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Unfortunately the actions of few extremists on both sides of the divide take pleasure in causing sectarian violence between Sunnis and Shi'is. We are all Muslims who differ on the small issue of who should have been successor to the Prophet (saw) and not on the practising of the Din.

Imams Ali, al-Hasan and Al-Husayn are revered and loved by Sunnis as well as Shi'ites (as anyone visiting the Husayn mosque in al-Qahira will be able to testify). Ali also sent al-Hasan and al-Husayn to Uthman's house when he was threatened to stand guard and protect him. Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq was the teacher of Abu Hanifa. I hate that today a small minority look to divide the umma for their own stupid reasons! And on the topic of Khalifas Abu Bakr and Omar, Khomeini banned the cursing of them and most Shi'ites look down upon this type of behavious - just as most Sunnis look down on those curse Ali and his descendents.
 

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Natalya said:
- just as most Sunnis look down on those curse Ali and his descendents.
I have yet to hear a Sunni who curses Imam Ali and his descendents, and I don't believe that there are any.

A good and informative post though.:)
 

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tottina said:
yes, there is.
There is what?!

I am sure none dares to think about it as Ali is one of the 10th augured to enter heaven, he is the causin of Mohammed the prophet and he is the fourth khalifa. Not to mention that his khilafa was the worst and was just about destroying what has been built before by Abu Bakir, Omar and Othman even though the last one has so many mistakes as well, but Ali was not a Khalifa or a politican he is actuially the most aknowldged when it comes to religious stuff but politics NO. Besides its the fault of the people who thought mistakingly that they will stand beside him but they dumped him and left his sons to their sad faith.

Now again, I hope you check your posts before posting because the last one looks extremely absured and out of any kind of evidences.
 

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It's really odd for me. If the Prophet had asked everyone to accept Imam Ali as his successor, why didn't they listen to him? :confused: Or didn't the Prophet said that on the last Haj of his life?

Seductive said:


I am sure none dares to think about it as Ali is one of the 10th augured to enter heaven, he is the causin of Mohammed the prophet and he is the fourth khalifa. Not to mention that his khilafa was the worst and was just about destroying what has been built before by Abu Bakir, Omar and Othman even though the last one has so many mistakes as well, but Ali was not a Khalifa or a politican he is actuially the most aknowldged when it comes to religious stuff but politics NO.
There you have it. The difference between Sunnis and Shiites. If you ask a Shiite, he'd definitely say Imam Ali is the second to enter the heaven. ;)

By the way, I disagree on the last part. Imam Ali is one of the world's greatest politicians ever, and I mean ever. That brain of his was really brilliant.
 

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Rafo said:
There you have it. The difference between Sunnis and Shiites. If you ask a Shiite, he'd definitely say Imam Ali is the second to enter the heaven. ;)

By the way, I disagree on the last part. Imam Ali is one of the world's greatest politicians ever, and I mean ever. That brain of his was really brilliant.
He is smart and vert clever but that dose not mean that he was a great poltician, I mean look at Omar Bin Khatab, he is a true poltician and militant, he wins the war, gives the non muslims whatever they want, pull their legs to enter Islam. Ali was not like that, he is a very religious and kind hearted person and thats the last thing politics need.

In addition to that, Ali was not named as Khalifa none actually was named to be, it was left for the people to pick their Khalifa and they have chosd Abu Baker the second greatest person in Islam and nothing mentioned about "most aknowldged in religious stuff should be the Imam" and that is exactly what Shi'it sets all about and this is not true!

What I am saying is, Imam Ali is an Imam and not a prince.
 

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Sunnis and Shias have different versions of history, and it makes no sense to try to convince the other that your version is correct. For example, shia refer to "Ghadeer Khumm" incident as a focal point in history where the prophet named Ali as his successor. We Sunnis claim that no such thing happened in Ghadeer Khumm and refer to the Aya that says "Wa amruhum shura bainahum" not "Ali waliyuhum". If Imama is that important, then it should be found in the Quran.

There are certainly many incidents that show the high value of Ali and his sons that may indicate that the prophet may very well had wanted them to rule after him. However, if that is true, then it could be argued that the prohet was an ambitious man who wanted to establish a monarchy (was their a divine reason for not having a male son?)! But then the Shia are right in many things, nobody prefers Muawiya over Ali, Yazeed over Hussein, Abdulmalik over Zaid, or even Al-Maamoun over Ali Al-Rida. The descendents of the prophets were in many ways better than their contemporary rulers who incidentally were not properly elected by Shura! So it would have most probably been better if they ruled!

It's a very touchy issue, and I prefer if we Muslims respect each other and leave our differences aside. These differences can be debated intellectually by top scholars in a proper manner. I believe that we will be judged by our own actions not about what happened 13 centuries ago (They have all died and will be judged). The funny thing is that all the rulers, Imams, and Khalifa's we argue about are heads and shoulders better than any of the current rulers! I know some people who don't pray and drink and do other stuff, yet fiercely defend their sect and visciously attack other sects:(
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Unfortunately here in Britain we have some pretty extreme Sunni Muslims who believe that if you kill 3 Shi'ites then you go to heaven, and they also look down on those who the Shi'a love such as Ali, they are a very very small minority. They consider 'normal' Sunnis like me to be a kafir and they want a Khalifa installed at 10 Downing Street - very strange bunch of people!

But instead of debating the differences of Sunni and Shi'as we should concentrate on what this thread is meant to be about - the horrible and unjust deaths of hundreds of Shi'ites and the descretation of a Mosque and a shrine (that of Abbas).
 

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During the last fews years there were many Shias victims that were caused by others. Till now there is no reacting from us (Shias) and am proud that we dont just go and destroy everything without knowing who caused the problem :rolleyes:
 

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The story of Ashura is a very sad one really.

Al-Hussain had a daughter "Ruqaya" 3 years old girl, she was asking about her father and crying loudly when El-Yazied heard her crying he sent her the head of her father, when she saw it she said: Dad!! She hugged and kissed the head,cried crazingly till she passed out and finally passed away. Her brother Ali Juniour prayed on her grave and till now there is a grave Shi'it visit to get the blessings.
 

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if u guys want to know who imam ali alayi el salaam is then this is what he is...

''As for the double grade love, it is found in the hearts of the Prophets and the Imams. You all know Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib, in the vicinity of whose tomb we live (Najaf Ashraf, Iraq). This great man has said: "I never saw a thing but I saw Allah before it, after it and along with it."

In fact, it was so because love of Allah occupied his great heart and conscience in such a way that it concealed everything else from him. Even when he saw human beings, he saw Allah. He looked at them as Allah's bondmen. When he looked at Allah's bounties, he remembered Him. This bond with Allah was always present before his eyes, for it was Allah alone whom he truly loved and to whom alone his hopes and aspiration were directed. He never allowed anybody to divert his attention from Allah and thus all the time he saw only Allah. These two grades of love are applicable to love of this world also, the love of which, in the words of the Holy Prophet, is the root-cause of all errors.

They could say so because love of Allah had illuminated their hearts. It was love of Allah that was the basis of Imam Ali's courage and bravery. His courage was not that of a ferocious beast. It was the courage that is produced by faith and love of Allah. His bravery was that which is shown by the warriors, but he also had the courage of rejecting what is wrong, and being steadfast and firm. He was over 60 when he took the field against the Khawarij and in a successful engagement single-handedly killed 4000 of them. This is an example of the utmost bravery in the battlefield. He was so intoxicated with love of Allah that he did not think for a moment that he alone was facing 4000 people. He was also at the height of bravery in regard to being patient and not pressing his rightful claim. He kept quiet when he was required by Islam to overlook his right and be patient. At that time he was in the prime of his life. He had not grown aged. His conscience was a flame with the fire of youth. But Islam had told him to keep quiet and be patient, even if his right was violated. He was to keep quiet so long as the externalities of Islam were being maintained and the religious rites were being observed.

This was the height of bravery as far as patience was concerned. It was not the bravery of the ferocious animals. It was the courage of a brave believer absorbed in love of Allah who reached the peak of bravery by practicing self-negation. Do you know what his reaction was when Caliphate was offered to him on conditions contrary to the Qur'an and Sunnah (conduct of the Holy Prophet) following the assassination of Uthman, the Second Caliph?

He rejected the offer outright because its terms, which were contrary to the Qur'an and Sunnah could not be acceptable to him. From here we see that Imam Ali never felt concerned for himself. He felt concerned for Allah and His religion. Hence this was not a case of bravery in the battlefield. It was a case of bravery in the field of patience. He had the courage to refuse as well as the courage to keep quiet. This courage was inculcated in Imam Ali's heart by love of Allah, not by mere belief in Him for this belief is shared by the philosophers of the West also. Aristotle also believed in Allah. Plato, Farabi and others also believed in Him. But what have they done for humanity? What have they done for this world or the next? Belief alone is not enough. Only love of Allah added to belief in Him does wonders.

Imam Ali said: "This Caliphate of yours has no value to me. What is important to me is to establish some truth or to destroy some falsehood." Did Imam Ali not say so? Did he not act according to this view throughout his life? He worked for his beloved Allah, not for himself. Had Imam Ali sought the world and worked for it, he would really have been the most unfortunate man on the face of the earth, for from his early childhood he had carried his life in his hand. He defended the Prophet of Allah and fought for his cause and his divine mission. He never wavered for a single moment. He did not care for his life, and was never afraid of his death. He carried his life in his hand. He was more obedient to the Holy Prophet during his lifetime and after his death than any body else. He worked for the cause of Allah more than all others. More than others he underwent all sorts of hardships and sufferings for the cause of Islam. Why did Imam Ali make all these efforts? What was his aim?

If we look at the things from a worldly point of view, Imam Ali did not get any thing out of his efforts. In the matter of Caliphate he was pushed aside. For all his efforts he had to pass a retired life for a long time. Was not this great man abused and cursed? Was he not cursed from the pulpits which he himself had set up by dint of his blood and sacrifice? Thus Imam Ali did not acquire any worldly thing, neither wealth or property, nor any post or position, nor fame or renown. His work did not receive appreciation. Despite all this what did he say when Abdur Rahman ibn Muljam struck him with his sword on his head? At that moment this great Imam exclaimed: "By the Lord of the Ka'ba, I have succeeded."

Imam Ali was not working for his personal profit. Whatever he was doing, he was doing for Allah's sake. So he thought that the time of meeting Allah had come. He would soon meet Allah, who would pay him his dues and would reward him for all the sufferings he had undergone. That is why he exclaimed: "By the Lord of the Ka'ba, I have succeeded."

This Imam is our ideal. His life is a model for us? We believe that the Qur'an and the Sunnah are the sources of Islamic law? What is Sunnah? Does it mean any thing other than the conduct - sayings, the deeds and the approvals of those who are infallible? It is our duty to refrain from loving this world. In fact we have no world to love. Should we love the world? Can we the students love this world and leave aside Allah's good pleasure which is more important than everything else.''

ayatullah baqir sadr...murdered by saddam in 1980.

if anyone bothered to read this then i thank u and for the sake of Allah and this forum i dont want to argue with anyone please.
 
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