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Posted by Leo No.8 on ynwa.org and I'd guess Koptalk as well.....................

Never would there have been a better night to watch the scores coming in on teletext or via your internet connection.

The results were fantastic; matters could hardly have been better on paper.
Yet for those who were at Anfield tonight, the lasting memory will be of a thoroughly disappointing performance on the pitch from the players, and an outright shameful one from those in the stands.

I've seen many words to describe outrage at the team's performance over the past year and a half. Yet not one of you in your anger and upset could touch the fury I feel after tonight's showcase of booing, complaining and idiocy from what was not a minority in the crowd. This is Anfield, how dare you bring disgrace on us in this way.

Matters on the pitch firstly. One of the blokes who sits alongside us said, rather tongue in cheek 'they say if you're not playing well, win ugly'. I responded by saying that judging by those standards, this performance was Camilla Parker-Bowles.

Don't be fooled by the fact that we got 3 points and climbed into the all-important 4th place; we were horrendous tonight.

For the first 5 minutes or so we were great. What followed Owen's excellently taken goal though, was 85 minutes of totally uninspiring lethargy.

First the good. Steven Gerrard was absolutely magnificent, inspirined, herculean even. I can't come up with enough adjectives to describe the energy, pride and sheer quality with which he has played with since he was given the captaincy.
At times it seems he is single-handedly holding this team and even this club together. Were it not for his total domination and trojan effort in the heart of the midfield we could quite easily have fallen apart tonight, against a feeble City team of misfits, mercenaries and big time drop-outs which would look much more at home in the lower leagues.

Who knows what sort of catastrophic reaction we would have seen from the crowd had we actually lost the game? The wolves in the Main Stand were baying for blood as it was.

In some ways it was a strange performance. It was difficult to pick anyone, (apart from Kewell who was quite simply awful), who played badly. It was more the general lethargy and lack of cohesion from the team as a whole.

Gerrard, Henchoz and Owen were notable exceptions to the general malaise. Michael looked back to something near his lively best.

But the rest looked as though they had never seen each other before. The football we played was disjointed, scrappy and at times practically non-existant.

Starting from the back, Dudek's communication with his defence again threatened to be costly; I lost count of the number of times he simply needed to shout to his defender to allow the ball to run through. Each time he failed to do this, we were put under pressure.
Jerzy continues to look nervous, and is a shadow of the assured Dudek we came to love in his first season.
Why does it seem this is the destiny of every talented goalkeeper we bring in? Fingers should continue to be pointed in the direction of Joe Corrigan, who continues to somehow regress each keeper he works with.

In defence Hyypia was OK in general, but from time to time found himself embarassed by a quick turn of foot from the nippy Wright-Phillips.
Finnan was steady but didn't venture forward as much as usual, and Carragher was back to his old self; solid defensively but poor with his distribution.

Apart from the unbelievable Gerrard, the individual displays in midfield were probably the most disappointing aspect of the overall performance.
As I mentioned, Kewell was terrible and cannot put a foot right at the moment.
Like all truly great flair players he has patches during a season when he is unstoppable, and patches were he contributes very little. Tonight was one of the latter, but we have to help him through these difficult times and remember the fabulous talent he possesses will come good soon.
Hamann was his usual steady self without being spectacular. Like most of the others though, his distribution was uninspired.
Cheyrou showed nice touches but faded and was practically anonymous by the end. His good run of goals lately has him rightly back in the frame, but he still needs to contribute a great deal more to the overall shape of games.
Le Tallec also showed glimpses, but in general was fairly ineffective. I back his continued selection though, because his talent will only shine through if given the games to adapt to the pace of the Premier League. Persistance now will be rewarded in the near future.

Owen was supported by Le Tallec, Cheyrou, Kewell and later Heskey during the game. At times he looked extremely dangerous when running with the ball, and it was pleasing to see how well he took his goal.

As I mentioned, it was difficult to really criticise individuals but the team performance found you leaving the stadium feeling totally dissatisfied. You got the feeling City were simply the worst of two teams playing poorly, and only because of Liverpool's lack of cohesion and drive were they allowed to make a game of it.

During the last twenty minutes, we astoundingly found our team camped in their own half, clinging desperately to a one goal lead against a team which should have been dismissed with little trouble. The midfield sat deep and we defended with backs to the wall much to the dismay of the crowd who desperately called for 'attack, attack, attack'.

Around the 80th minute, after ten minutes of watching us treat the situation like we were holding onto a 2-1 lead against Madrid in the Champions League final, the final straw broke the camel's back for many; it was the readying of Igor Biscan to enter the fray.

I was embarassed at the petty, classless booing of McMananaman (even though I don't much care for him myself).

It was so distinctly 'un-Liverpool'. I wondered if these people sitting in the stands with me had been brought up with the traditions and code of conduct I had. Yet when they started heckling as Biscan stood up, I felt like getting up and walking out.

As Igor stood up to represent this club on the field of play, there was a sustained chorus of boos from the stand behind.
I imagine this was more for the decision to bring on a defensive for an attacking midfielder to cling even more desperately to our slender lead against a City team which had not won in 13 games.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that to a certain extent, and have to agree it was appallingly cautious. It was a further sign that Gerard is neither willing to throw off the shackles which remain on a talented squad of players, or in tune with the wishes of supporters in general.

Yes, it was a depressing moment from a football point of view, and yes it was a depressing insight into Gerard's continuing mindset.
But when I saw Igor Biscan, a man who has failed at Liverpool but always given his best, wearing our red shirt emblazoned with the Liver Bird, looking up into the stand in horror as his own fans booed and heckled and screamed at him and the manager, I felt more than depressed.
I was utterly horrified, and numbly started to wonder if I had been un-knowingly been beamed to White Hart Lane.

Those who made their distaste with Gerard, Igor or both so clear have no excuse. It was plainly obvious our player would feel the vitriol was directed at him, but they went and did it anyway. Biscan trotted on with his head down like a condemned man, and played with fear in his every touch.

We became Tottenham, we became West Ham, we became all those pissy two-bit classless clubs whose fans act like spoilt children and have none of the moral standards and commitment through thick and thin to their team we used to be famous for.

I realised at that moment what was important. I realised I'd rather be part of a group of people with all those things our supporters have been known around the world for like honour, respect for all our staff and players, and togetherness through adversity, than have a Championship side and so little class in the stands.

I felt betrayed tonight. No depths of performance could make me feel as bad as those who belitted and hurt our own player so publicly. I'd rather we'd lost the game if the supporters had sung their hearts out and cheered Igor onto the pitch, hand on heart I can say that without a grain of doubt.

At this point, the City fans started singing 'Worst support we've ever seen', and I swear I felt like standing up and joining in. The players may have been poor and won, but if anyone was keeping a score from the supporters, we'd have lost 6-0.

The pathetic lack of noise from The Kop, the shameful attacking of the players and manager from the Main Stand, tonight was the first night of my life I was ashamed to be a Liverpool fan. Something must be done about this before our reputation as one of the fairest, best sets of fans in the world becomes the stuff of legend and a thing of the past.

Houllier said not long ago that our travelling support are the real fans, and my God a truer word has never been spoken. Our home fans are a disgrace to the team they support, and a blight on the image of the Liverpool fan, earned through magnificent backing over decades of ups and downs.

If any of you were those booing in the stands tonight, I say this to you. Get out - leave our club alone, and give your ticket to someone else. I don't care if you are from Liverpool, Warrington or Timbuctoo, if you want to act like that find yourselves another club and bring shame on this great club no longer.

Portly and Vlad's Quiff said they had heard little like tonight in 40 years of attending the games. The modern generation of fans is a pale, pale shadow of those who have gone before us, those who were so vocal in their support when we were in the second division.

I go to bed tonight with a heavy heart. I find myself longing to stand alongside our fantastic away supporters to remind myself the mythical, loyal Liverpool fan still exists. I know they are out there, but how I wish I could sing and cheer with them right now to feel better about my fellow fans.

I go to bed truly ashamed to be a Liverpool supporter for the first time in my life, as I was too young to truly understand that terrible night in Heysel. Even though I didn't raise my voice in disapproval at Anfield this evening, and simply shook my head in shock at what was going on around me, I feel part of something awful.

I hope those who participated in the barracking understand just what it is they have done tonight, in taking away our collective dignity more than any poor performance from our players ever could.

People talk about faith in the manager. My faith in the home support at Anfield has been torn to pieces so badly it will take a great deal to put back together again.

As the City supporters belted out a chorus of United's favourite ditty 'You're not famous anymore', I wondered whether it was our supporters they were referring to. If so, I'm afraid they were abolutely right.


Leo.
 
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yet another fool who thinks it was the players being booed!! WE WERE BOOING HOULLIER AND RIGHTFULLY SO!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
yet poor Igor has to come on to a torrent of boos. Really going to inspire the players is it.
 

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Look Razor
You got anything new to say rather the same old stuffs?

I am sick and tired of all these

read my lips

SICK AND TIRED.

If you truly respect ppls like me, Paw and Yasir. Know this.

WE DO NOT NEED ALL THESE.
 

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Doc_Rule said:
yet another fool who thinks it was the players being booed!! WE WERE BOOING HOULLIER AND RIGHTFULLY SO!
RazorUK said:
yet poor Igor has to come on to a torrent of boos. Really going to inspire the players is it.
Something wrong Razor ? didnt understand what Doc has said ?

It's not Igors fault, what can he do, say he doesnt want to or ask for a transfer because he's not good enough ? But thats irelevant because nobody was booing Igor anyway.Houllier was being booed, and if the crowd was cheering etc the players would have still done what they did last night.

Mindscape-Totally correct, and im glad someone besides me and Doc has cracked about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It's truly pathetic that you can't put across a different point of view in this forum with out being abused.

In case you didn't get the point COTK. The booing occured AS IGOR WAS WARMING UP AND ABOUT TO COME ON.

Timing was very poor regardless of who they were booing.
 

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Ok people.

Any more arguments based on the (to some fans) inflammatory post will lead unto a never ending cycle of arguments and accusations.

Regardless of intentions, for the good everyone here, let this thread drop down the board.

Thank you.
 
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Where you there Razor?? didn't think so. the boos occured when Biscan was stripped and ready to come on and we saw who was going off. It was clearly aimed at Houllier, as it was accompanied by "ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK" chants. Biscan was cheered almost every time he touched the ball after coming on. He knew it wasn't aimed at him.
 
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RazorUK said:
It's truly pathetic that you can't put across a different point of view in this forum with out being abused.

this from the man who refers to anyone who dislikes Houllier as "muppets".
 

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Discussion Starter #11
please show the quotes where I have personally referred to those that dislike Houllier as muppets:)

Yasir, Mindscape, Zico, Paw all think Houllier should be gone, I don't think any of those people are muppets and have never referred to them as such:)
 

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RazorUK said:
Portly and Vlad's Quiff said they had heard little like tonight in 40 years of attending the games. The modern generation of fans is a pale, pale shadow of those who have gone before us, those who were so vocal in their support when we were in the second division.
don't you think it has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with gh and "his" football (or should i put it - his "football'')?
 

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MINDSCAPE said:
Look Razor
You got anything new to say rather the same old stuffs?

I am sick and tired of all these

read my lips

SICK AND TIRED.

If you truly respect ppls like me, Paw and Yasir. Know this.

WE DO NOT NEED ALL THESE.
Lol ark at the kettle calling the pot black.

Will you also refrain from posting your version of the "same old stuff" as you've advised Razor to do?
 

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Re: Re: Ashamed to be a Liverpool Supporter?

zico said:
don't you think it has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with gh and "his" football (or should i put it - his "football'')?
Zico, youmiss the part where he says vocal IN THE SECOND DIVISION.

I wonder how many 'supporters' would still be around if we were in the second....
 

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RazorUK said:
Yasir, Mindscape, Zico, Paw all think Houllier should be gone, I don't think any of those people are muppets and have never referred to them as such:)
i'm flattered, Razor. :D i don't know how sincere you are and must tell you i never felt that you weren't reffering to me as a muppet. And why wouldn't you? How different am i (or Paw) from the "true" (now i feel discriminated :) )muppets? I'm not gonna tell you that there is nobody on this planet who loves Liverpool more than I do ( I'll leave it to you ;) ) but it's sure as hell nobody hates gh more than i do for what he has done. Funny, other ppl worship him for same thing.

I can understand sincere frastration of that fan, but there are fans like myself who understand that if it takes hot iron to heel the bleeding wound then so be it! I don't care if Bisquits or anybody's feelings been hurt, my feelings (as well as millions of others) have been hurt for years! What must be done must be done! Call us muppets all you want, but we know who we truly are! We'll do what it takes!


and Razor, it's truly funny when you complain after you started the thread with abuse.

and Dear, Yasir, you said it goes on both sides when i say that we merely respond, so do me a favor, plz remind me when and if any of the "muppets" opens a can of worms like Razor did here. I can't say that it never happend, but it's much rare and rather an exception while with them it's practically a rule.
 

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Re: Re: Re: Ashamed to be a Liverpool Supporter?

CardiffRed said:
Zico, youmiss the part where he says vocal IN THE SECOND DIVISION.

I wonder how many 'supporters' would still be around if we were in the second....
i don't know how many. but if you ask me... i don't have a second club. so, be it fourth div. or CL there is only one team for me. Have doubts? Fine with me. I'm not trying to prove anything to anybody, i just want houllier out.
 

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And again, those self-indulging discussions about loyalty to one’s own emotional attachments, as if it is a life sacrifice for world peace. We are all fans of any club or any game for our own good, and by our own choice. Don’t pretend that it’s some kind of a noble mission. People pick any existing association that they can relate to or enjoy, and become fans for many different, but always self-fulfilling reasons. Nothing wrong with it, and it is great that people can find so many ways to relate to each other. It is probably the best thing about football with all its diversity. But to create some kind of rules or judgments on who is “true” fan, and who is not, and what “the real” fans should “feel” or “do”, is simply pathetic. It is just another tool to feel better about yourself. Wake up people! You are not creating your own society of secret brotherhood with your own rules and loyalty until you die.

Firstly, vast majority of fans, are the fans of the Game itself. I seriously doubt that any of you would attend weekly hotdog eating competitions by LFC supporting stuff. Secondly, you all became LFC supporters because it had some very positive associations for you in relation to the Game, where it were great traditions, entertaining football, success, your family or friend influences, childhood memories, local associations, etc., Whatever it was, it wasn’t because Liverpool played pathetic boring football, never achieved anything, never had any talented players, but you just happen to like a board member, or a coach or a cleaning lady, and you decided to support it for the rest of you life no matter what.

Thirdly, you all want your club to win everything, play the most entertaining football, have the most talented squad, etc., whatever you priorities are. Be honest to admit it, and leave aside all that altruistic BS, pride and loyalty to the club no matter what. It is only there to make you feel good about your emotional attachments, decisions, opinions and expectations. Do with your passion what you want, and don’t “be ashamed” of others expressing it differently.
 

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very well said, shubay!

self-righteousness aloud wont do you any good, folks. I'm sure the houllier years will go down in history as the Great Divide (among the fans). I don't think fans of any other club experienced quite anything like that.
 

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zico said:
I'm sure the houllier years will go down in history as the Great Divide (among the fans). I don't think fans of any other club experienced quite anything like that.
Zico will you please shut up, I find myself in agreement with you again!!!:D
 

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The thing is everyone has their own opinions about everyone.

One of the Liverpool fans at work used to go regularily from London, but hes stopped going and says he wont till GH goes. Another LFC fan doesn't go anymore, and hes a really reasonable fan, a football fan, I can talk to him about anything to do with football. But if I start talking about GH he goes off on one.

I've been meaning to drop by recently to read your guys comments and opinions on this, I didn't quite realise there was so much dissention going on :eekani:

Personally I think GH has had a lot of time and LFC look, if anything, further away from being a side capable of striving for the title than they have in recent years.

I can fully (and I mean it!) appreciate the reaction to negative football. How many clubs that were top of the first Division, would be calling for the managers head? We'll its caused a massive rift at WBA cos Gary Megson was playing 5-3-2 and it was soooo boring, playing to counter the opposition, and score breakaway goals. We have ridden our luck on many occasions and got away wth it. It got to the point where we were booing the manager for negative tactics when we have one of the best squads in the division. The same thing happened when one of our defenders was coming on for a striker when we were 1-0 up with 20 mins to go. A chorus of boos rang around the ground (directed at the manager) the player knew full well why we were booing. It was reported in the national press that we dislike the said player as he got a load of boos when he came on. Thats just naive reporting from a reporter not worthy of the title!

One of the local journos interviewed him and the player said he knew he wasn't being booed.

Any player at Liverppol that doesn't know that booing is occuring cos of GH's tactics is living in a closed cell and shut off from life. IB knew the fans weren't booing him.
 
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