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In a way yes, but football now all the dependson the confidence, the squad, the unit etc. more than it has before and surely Ascoli have all of that.

On the other hand, Treviso could prove the other way.

Depends on the team, I believe that the teams coming up from B this year will more or less do well in A next year, esp. Atalanta if they keep the current stars of their team.
 

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It depends on the make-up of the team, some Serie B teams make it to Serie A playing a defensive game and play tight in the midfield capatalizing on other's mistakes, and they try to do that in Serie A and it doesn't work because they are facing opposition that is superior technically. Ascoli has some talented wide players and play an open game, playing to there strengths, and not to their oppositions weakness, and by taking the game to the other team challenge them and produce some good results. So yes there are some instances where the gap between Serie A and Serie B is small, but then again there is also a small difference between a good player and a great player and that makes all the difference.

Good topic.
 

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There are a few 'bridge clubs' between Serie A and Serie B, clubs that repeatedly get promoted and relegated, clubs such as Lecce, Brescia, Atalanta, and Torino. For the rest of the teams it seems as though there is a big gap, though looking at teams like Chievo over the past few years, Parma in the late 80s/early 90s and Ascoli this year, it looks like it is those teams that are the exception, and not the rule that clubs can easily make a transition into Serie A. It will be interesting to see how a club like Catania, who is currently in a promotion place for Serie B but has never been in Serie A and possibly Mantova, should they also be promoted, will do in Serie A and whether or not these clubs can become more than yo-yo clubs or worse, just a mark in one season's history of Serie A.
 

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This is the result of:
1- the serie A with 20 clubs
2- the growing gap between the top clubs and most of the other clubs in serie A

Atalanta and Catania are now more or less on the same level of 13-14 teams in serie A.
 

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IMO, it's got more to do with management than anything. Teams with a large enogh fan base to afford proper management while they are still in Serie B, do well when they make the jump up.
 

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I think the gap has definatly reduced over the last 10 years, and the chances of upsets have increased. A game in Palermo is going to be a tough match, equally Chievo is always a tough fight. These are teams 6 years ago were in the depths of Serie B.

In Treviso's defence, they took a gamble. Loaned out a number of irregulars in an attempt to find a winning formula.
Teams from Serie B these days are finding quality players, its a matter of keeping these players that proves difficult. I think if the TV rights were distributed a little more equally and a bonus was gained from promotion, we could see a much more competitive competition.

Competitive competition = good football. Good football = happy people and a great league. Great League = attraction of the best PLUS a great influence on the future of the Italian NT.
 

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Chances of upsets increased??? Jah, you are kidding. This is the total table of the last three seasons:

1. Milan 240
2. Juventus 237

3. Inter 205

4. Roma 181

5. Lazio 153
6. Udinese 151
7. Sampdoria 146
8. Parma 145
9. Chievo 139

I think that it's rather clear that Milan and Juventus are enormously better than most of the others, then Inter (more than -10 points per season), then Roma (quite -20 points per season), then all the other clubs (starting from -30 per season!).
Consider that Reggina, the worst club among those who avoided the relegation in the past 3 seasons, gained 116 points. That means less than 8 points per season less than the fabulous Chievo!

Palermo and Chievo can compete for the 5th place... and that is exactly what I meant in the previous post: from the 5th down to the 20th anything is possible but the real competition, the race for the scudetto is strictly reserved to three clubs (one has never won but you never now...).

And Jah, beware of the optimism, Udinese one year ago were where you; Fiorentina, are now. While one year ago you were where Udinese are now. And the magic word is: European competitions. The teams participating in them suffer, above all those who are out of the top3, but even them. And hope that Luca Toni won't leave Fiorentina for one of three big... which is possible if Luca Toni decides that Fiorentina are not enough for him (he left Palermo where he was considered a sort of king by the supporters).
 

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I agree in general in what you are saying ToniSamp, but I think Fiorentina and Udinese are a little different, in that Prandelli won't leave Fiorentina like Spalletti left Udinese. As well Fiorentine won't be selling their star players like Udinese did with Pizzaro, Jankulovski,
Koldrup etc. Fiorentina could also be signing more players, such as Tavano, and some midfield options. Fiorentina already has an impressive number of attacking players, if not the same consistent quality throughout. Maybe Fiorentina will not get the final Champions League spot next year (I am assuming they will get the one this year), but they will not have the midseason collapse that Udinese did, which I contribute to player sales, and the coaching disaster there. I also do not forsee Luca Toni leaving, a lot of noise will be made, but no one is going to put up the kind of cash required for Toni to leave as he is 30/31 year old.
 

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Of course Fiorentina are different from Udinese. Even if Fiorentina did not participate in all the last three seasons of serie A I could easily put them on the same level of Roma in the table I made before and surely not on the level of Udinese (or Sampdoria, Lazio, Parma, Palermo etc.).
As regards Luca Toni: in moderm football you must always consider the wishes of the players. If a player wants to leave a club then he will leave that club no matter whether the club wants to keep him. Juve, Milan and Inter are (unfortunately) the dream of any Italian pro player... stronger for those who are more or less 30 years old.
 

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Inter.. the dream of every Italian Pro????

There be something really wrong with Italian football then. :dazed:

But I agree ToniSamp. Great Posts. :thumbsup:
 

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Borruma II said:
Inter.. the dream of every Italian Pro????

There be something really wrong with Italian football then. :dazed:

But I agree ToniSamp. Great Posts. :thumbsup:
Tavano :rolleyes:

You are right Toni sometimes players will go, and you have already underlined that Toni did allow his sale from Palermo. Fiorentina may be different as Fiorentina do not want to sell him, but Zamparini did. Or at least I do not think Fiorentina want to sell him. Toni though may want to go, but he has such a magical season that I think he want to stay at Fiorentina and try to savour that relationship as much as possible.
 

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ToniSamp said:
Chances of upsets increased??? Jah, you are kidding. This is the total table of the last three seasons:
what im saying is 10 years ago a team like Siena had no chance of beating Juventus. It was laughable. Now we see Messina holding them to a draw, where Milan are closing down on them. I don't doubt there is a massive gap between the big three and the rest, but i believe the middle ground (ie. Udinese, Fiorentina, Parma, Roma, Lazio) has become all the more competitive with the inclusions of Palermo and Chievo worthy of respect. Suddenly, these middle teams are producing more and more talent and this talent is representing the NT.

ToniSamp said:
And Jah, beware of the optimism, Udinese one year ago were where you; Fiorentina, are now. While one year ago you were where Udinese are now. And the magic word is: European competitions. The teams participating in them suffer, above all those who are out of the top3, but even them. And hope that Luca Toni won't leave Fiorentina for one of three big... which is possible if Luca Toni decides that Fiorentina are not enough for him (he left Palermo where he was considered a sort of king by the supporters).
Luca left Palermo because he was sold. Zampa said he was over the hill and might as well cash in on him. After knocking in 50 goals in two seasons and your club accepting a 7mil bid, i'd be leaving too. Magic word here: Retard. Zamparini is one. His words are probably going to send Carraciolo and Grosso north.

i think now the Serie A has become alot more exciting. Whilst the big three still dominate, i relish the Roma/Fiorentina matches or Livorno/Palermo. In this sense the football has improved.
 

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ToniSamp said:
Of course Fiorentina are different from Udinese. Even if Fiorentina did not participate in all the last three seasons of serie A I could easily put them on the same level of Roma in the table I made before and surely not on the level of Udinese (or Sampdoria, Lazio, Parma, Palermo etc.).
As regards Luca Toni: in moderm football you must always consider the wishes of the players. If a player wants to leave a club then he will leave that club no matter whether the club wants to keep him. Juve, Milan and Inter are (unfortunately) the dream of any Italian pro player... stronger for those who are more or less 30 years old.
IMO Fiorentina and Roma are working hard to get into the big three club. Theyre moving well and with amazing coaches and backing, they can do it.

Udinese had to play in Europe yes. But they had to deal with selling/letting go:

Jankulovski
Pizarro
Koldrup
Di Michele
Spaletti

as well as having a hard line management. the fallout has seen De Sanctis and Iaquinta get annoyed and stop performing and Serse Cosmi totally unable to run the team. the fall out has seen them spiral similar to us 6 years ago.
 

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what im saying is 10 years ago a team like Siena had no chance of beating Juventus. It was laughable. Now we see Messina holding them to a draw, where Milan are closing down on them. I don't doubt there is a massive gap between the big three and the rest, but i believe the middle ground (ie. Udinese, Fiorentina, Parma, Roma, Lazio) has become all the more competitive with the inclusions of Palermo and Chievo worthy of respect. Suddenly, these middle teams are producing more and more talent and this talent is representing the NT.
Nonsense. If anything the middle ground has been destroyed. 5 or 6 years ago every season you knew at least 6 clubs had a chance of the championship. In 1999 Juve finished 7th, Inter 8th - two years earlier Milan 11th, and only six points away from relegation a year after winning the scudetto. Impossible now, Inter aren't much better than that time and yet are easily going to finish 3rd.

Hopefully Fiorentina, Palermo, et al can close the gap but I doubt it. :frownani:
 

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Here is my delayed response.

Serie B is a very strong league, IMO the strongest second division competition in the world, and Serie C1 the strongest third division competition in the world. This has been due to the fact that in Italy there is no reseves competition, thus meaning players who need further development that cannot get it through their club, is to be loaned out. Another fact is that the clubs are no extremely rich, which means player developments are crucial, they do not have the money to buy ready made players, however a positive with this is that the ready made players are less likely to develop into something decent. Take a look at the italian national team, nearly every Italian player has played in Serie B, lots in Serie C, and say for Grosso's instance even Serie D. With this fact clubs are more likely to spend money on managers.

Team structure and tactical play in Serie B, gets players ready for Serie A, so the bridge isn't that great. Yound talent who has gained experience in Serie B, usually step up to Serie A quite well, due to the experience gained in B. Take a look at Ascoli's great 2005/2006 season. Players like Foggia gained Serie B experience the year previous, Fini was an experience B campaigner, Parola had played with Triestina, Quagliarella has made the steady move from C2 to A, Guana played with Brescia, Ferrante experienced campaigner, etc, etc, etc. Now coupled with a great manager Ascoli were able to excel. Usually premoted clubs are able to pick the best young talents of B. We must also remember that Giampaolo achieved the 6th spot in Serie B with a team considered to be fighting against relegation - shows Giampaolo's capabilities.

Even when these promoted clubs fail, they have done their part in breeding the new talents.

Now we look to Ascoli 06/07, really a team more suited to mid-table Serie B, so have played great against Roma twice, give Inter a scare away, same with Lazio at our home, was an achievement. This team was the typical NON small club. The problem started when Ascoli hired Moggi's right hand man De Luca, who really showed the big DS's really know fark all without the checkbook. Instead of a typical team built on small club but experienced serie A players, or good Serie B players, De Luca bought well past it players like Delvecchio, Pecchia. Past it players not even good enough for the top Serie B clubs like Nastase. Brought in players like Pecorari, Foglio, Corallo. Then players like Skela (WTF). He did bring in young talent like Pesce, Perulli, and Guberti, however they came from Serie C - that season has helped them greatly and now in Serie B can excell and build on their future. But to survive they were not experienced enough. Then Tesser who is a manager who thinks the club was like Barcellona, lol. Tesser will do well with Mantova cause they are one of the top teams in B, but with a battling club like Ascoli, you cannot play you team as if they can hold possession and build on for a goal. Ascoli was doomed from the start, and wages were probably doubled from the season, where we achieved a 12 spot finish.

Clubs who did similar to this always get relegated like Anconamerda, and Treviso. I know people will say the bridge between Serie A and B is great, after witnessing Ascoli's second season back and in all Ascoli's 16th season in A, but really these are exception cases, because of non-typical way of doing things.

Most clubs, who bring up developing players usually have good seasons in Serie A, and some unfortuentely miss out. But clubs who do what Ascoli did will always get relegated.


FORZA PICCHIO
 

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Nice post, aussie ascoli.
I can agree with your post, which infact is not in contrast with mine.
Infact the Italian serie B is very good. The real problem is that serie A is weaker than it used to be, or better, the real outsiders have been destroyed.
Twenty years ago Juventus enter a period of crisis which they did not really exit till Moggi joined, Milan twenty-five years ago were a club which could even be relegated, Inter have always been a great club which could win nothing for ages. Now there is no chance that they somehow fail cause they are simply too much stronger than the other clubs from a financial point of view. Juventus maybe will need some more time but when you get 100 millions per season for the TV rights you can pay 3-4-5 millions/ season of wages to a player and then you have the certainty that the best players will move to you sooner or later.
 
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