Are you Italians proud of this garbage known as the Serie A?

Deano said:

I think its more a crap ref than cheating but its the way it went and most Juve fans are such scum for gloating about winning in such a way. If Roma win like that I would be content, but I would not gloat the way some have done here.

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To some extent gloating is also a simple reaction to the many (to a certain extent understandable) provocations aimed at Juve fans. I think you'll find that most of us on the forum did not dispute that the goals were invalid.

At the same time there's a lack of analytical balance when people do not mention that Cufre and Totti could and should have been expelled in the first half, that Zlatan's goal was valid, that we had a clear penalty turned down, and that Roma did not have a single shot on goal apart from Cassano's goal- whereas we had four not counting the goals or Zlatan's cancelled one.
We actually created the better chances in the match, despite Roma pressuring alot in the first 10 and after Mancini came on, and not all the refereeing went against Roma, although I obviously understand why most people wil resent the fact that both the goals that counted were tainted. I mean- that's obvious.

Just don't forget all the other incidents.

Roma also had chances froM Ferrari and Cassano which were blocked by big defensive challenges. Capello's cowardness almost cost you the match but Juve got lucky.

Play this way against Real or for the rest of the Serie A season and I doubt you will win anything although time will only tell this.

Roma payed last season for Capello's negativity and Juve will even though this is just an opinion.

Zebina should have also been expelled then for his lash out at Totti... Cufre's incident was not a red offence, I think it was an accident evn though many will say he meant it, he was running at full speed and Cufre is a wild player and I dont think he meant it, more clumsiness.

We could have easily had a pen when Cassano was not allowed to get to the ball by Thuram who had his arms virtually in Cassano's face but somehow the ref gave an FK to Juve :nervous:

Deano said:

To be honest you were not a Juve fan I was aiming it at but to answer the question. the provocation from Roma fans was aimed at Juve fans simply because we dont like your club and we dont like most of you (although you personally and a few others are alright) but for Juve to be Roma the way they did, well to me your team did not prove anything to any Roma fans and lets be honest, your team didnt prove anything to themselves or to the rest of the world and you do have alot to prove.

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I'm entirely OK with you all not liking or even hating Juve. Fine!
But it doesn't change that it's not reasonable to ONLY look at the decisions that benefitted Juve, and forget everything else. Lots of people called last night a refereeing travesty, and it was, but certainly not only in terms of pro-Juve calls, and had our goals been cancelled so that Roma had won the game- it certainly would have been a travesty as well.

About the part that we have a lot ot prove... while it's not spectacular, we grind out wins/results, and that's been the main reason we've won for years. Not that we play brilliant football.
We are tied for first position with acres between the top two and the chasing pack - and we have a reasonable shot at the CL quarters. I don't see why we need to prove anything more than what we achieve? It is after all immaterial whether people, opposing fans or Juve fans, enjoy our football if we win titles just the same.

It is true, the ref was questionable for both teams but this does not make it fine, it was Juve who got 2 goals from wrong decisions and Juve who picked up 3 points because of it. This is what I dont like... and Im sure you'd feel the same if it happened to Juve and the opponents got 2 wrong goals.

As for proving something. You have alot to prove because there is a good chance that you may come away with nothing. OK you are tied for top, but despite yesterday's win, Juve have been struggling recently and if Capello craps it against Real and brings in for Pessotto for DP then Real can make Juve pay more than the current Roma can even if we have a great front 3.

Juve work hard and are industrial but maybe teams need a little more than this to win Serie A and IMO Milan are the team which have it. As I said its only an opinion of mine personally and I could clearly be wrong but at this point Milan to me are huge favourties for the scudetto and not only because they are just as lucky as Juve.

Deano said:

It is true, the ref was questionable for both teams but this does not make it fine, it was Juve who got 2 goals from wrong decisions and Juve who picked up 3 points because of it. This is what I dont like... and Im sure you'd feel the same if it happened to Juve and the opponents got 2 wrong goals.

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Of course you don't like it and neither would I! The resentment is logical. I just think it's unreasonable to look back and say that nothing else should be counted. I find it quite obvious that it would have had an effect if you hadd played with a man less for 45 minutes for instance, and Cufre, for what he did against Zebina and his punch against DP... he obviously meritted a red card for both, and that's just the tip of the iceberg in a first half where Roma in particular where simply so fired up that they went over the edge. I think you pointed to the same in a post in your forum last night, and I don't think it's coincidental, that Totti had three Kung Fu challenges; two on Emerson and one on Zebina. That was about settling scores, and it went largely unpunished like usual with him (hey- fantastic footballer, but his reputation for being unprofessional is not undeserved).
This of course takes nothing away from the two goals we scored being wrong, but I don't see the errors going against us reflected in the ref. criticism from many posters.

Deano said:

As for proving something. You have alot to prove because there is a good chance that you may come away with nothing.

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That is very much true, but if you look at our squad and the fact that we're missing nedved, and that Trez has participated in only 12 games this season... I think it's unreasonable to expect more. We are simply not that good. If we win something, it will be like the bumble bee thing. Noone knows why it flies, but it does .

Deano said:

OK you are tied for top, but despite yesterday's win, Juve have been struggling recently and if Capello craps it against Real and brings in for Pessotto for DP then Real can make Juve pay more than the current Roma can even if we have a great front 3.

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Real CAN make us pay. Sure! But at the same time you can look at Real Madrid and it's obvious that they ahve weaknesses also, and we could hand them a beating as well. After all- Real Madrid is not a team to take lightly, and if we lose then at least we lost against a high profile outfit.

Deano said:

Juve work hard and are industrial but maybe teams need a little more than this to win Serie A and IMO Milan are the team which have it. As I said its only an opinion of mine personally and I could clearly be wrong but at this point Milan to me are huge favourties for the scudetto and not only because they are just as lucky as Juve.

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Milan has a better team than we do. That's a given in my book and I've said it all through the season. At the same time, they've gotten 6 points through winners deep into injurytime over the last 5 matches and surely didn't deserve their win against Inter in the derby. Milan is not in any kind of superb form either, and their schedule in my opinion is considerably more difficult than ours.

If we win- it will not be the most spectacular scudetto winning team ever, but it will be another step towards that third star just the same, and in the end that would be all history wrote. Winners don't need to prove anything. Whether we win is something else.