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Discussion Starter #1
Gee wouldn't it be nice if the first match doesn't get counted in tournaments:D :D

Too bad we lost, it was a match that with a little bit of luck we could have at least drawn. But what I saw today was something I have not seen in our other 7 WC matches, and that is number of chances created and number of shots on goal. To me this match against the African champion in the last two African cup and Sydney gold medalist is our best WC match, or at least as good as those against Belgium and NEtherlands. However, in both these 94 matches, we were outshot by our opponents.

It can be argued that having a lone striker hurt our chances to score, but then, the other striker will be at the expense of another midfielder or defender. Therefore, our ability to close down our field and to build up may have suffered. Still, any Saudi who had watched that game would have loved to see Shehan in it (assuming he has the pace of the qualifiers). It was his game! Since we are eliminated, we need two strikers, Yami and Obeid (assuming he is OK) probably at the expense of Suwayed, who had very little effect.

After restoring our pride we need to do some soul searching. Our objective must be to play close games against World class teams not boast about being able to beat them (as in Germany). Qualifying to the 2nd round of a WC is a result of good hardwork in 3 games and a lot of luck in the draw. Therefore, we should take it one game at a time. If we qualify, then great, if we don't then at least we have our pride. We know that we have a good team but are we really among the best 16 teams in the world? Unfortunately, both in '98 and '02 we concentrated too much on qualifying to the 2nd round that we sacrificed performance, and hence got neither. The problem is that our achievement in '94, which was a result of many factors some beyond our control such as, other teams in the group, the qulification of best thirds, and ofcourse the noon sun. It became a yardstick, a high standard that we simply were not able to reach.

Another objective of playing in the WC is to showcase our players. Our football has stagnated for years now because the Saudi league has not improved. After today's game, players like Temyat, Shelyah, Khathran and Waked will certainly be approached. Obeid and fouzi also played well. Another good effort against Ireland (I am sure that we will not lose that one Inshallah) and the Saudi league will certainly miss several players next season. Ofcourse provided by the fact that club manager don't spoil things.
 

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yeah i agree with u bro,
There is no doubt that we have one of the most skillfull players in asia. We have many Individual players such as Nawaf and Al Mohammadi. But what i realised 2day was that we can be pass and play as team. If u notice, we had more chances that the Cameronian which was constructed after 2 or 3 slick passes.

We have to start to offload our to europe to improve and they should be encourage to do so. After today i am sure nawaf will offered by 1 or 2 clubs. Also maybe guys like Tukar,Fawzi, Shelia and Al Wakad with another imposing showing against the Irish.

Too bad players like Talal and Al Sheehan were not featuring in the WC. They would certainly made it Europe. The are by far our two best strikers along with Al Hasan

Remembers boys Saudi football is bright if important lessons is taken for this WC as not forcing players upon a coach by Emir Sultan or the media


Salam
 

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alsalamo 3alaykom
why we cann't say that 1994 wc was just a good luck for KSA...
they show a bad performance after this wc...and in 1998 they was really very bad...and in 2002 they was the worst team...so iam afraid from 2006 in germany what they will make that if they qualify...:neutral:
 

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Why you don't see any Saudi players in Europe...

Michael Church
Sunday June 9, 2002
The Observer

When Saudi Arabia became the first team to be eliminated from the World Cup on Thursday, it may have pleased the Saudi Football Federation and their dominant clubs. Why? Because it means less interest in their players.
This does not please Saudi stars. They are paid riches but denied a bigger stage for their talent, whereas African countries are poor but at least their players can roam wherever they want. Nwankwo Kanu, Patrick Mboma and Quinton Fortune are familiar to fans in Europe and have aided the growth of African football. It would not be that surprising if Cameroon reached the semi-finals. Their players have had the opportunity to mix it with the best.

Not the Saudis. At USA '94, Saeed Owairan scored one of the great World Cup goals against Belgium. Along with the rest of that squad, Owairan was banned from moving abroad by his football federation. This was to try to protect domestic football and, though the ban was lifted after France '98, nothing has really changed.

One of Saudi's top stars is striker Sami Al Jaber who plays for Al Hilal. The club, with Al Shabab, Al Nassr, Al Ittihad and Al Ahli, dominates Saudi football; they produce or sign up virtually the entire World Cup squad. The game has strong support in Saudi - crowds of up to 70,000 watch the Al Hilal v Al Nassr derby game and Al Hilal recently won the Asian Cup Winners Cup. In 2000 Al Jaber moved on loan to Wolves, only the second Saudi to play abroad. Having impressed manager Dave Jones, Al Hilal then blocked a permanent move.

'The clubs don't want to give [their players] what they deserve,' says Al Jaber. 'But if Saudi Arabia wants to have good players in the future then they have to let them go.'

It is not just the clubs and football authorities who are the problem. The insular Saudi press adds to the anonymous nature of Saudi football. It is another reason why there is barely any outside knowledge or interest in their football.

'Our media don't show what we have,' says Al Jaber. 'When I was in England people were always asking me what it was like in Saudi Arabia. We have good talent, good players and a good league but why does no one know?'
 

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MINDSCAPE said:
Why you don't see any Saudi players in Europe...

Michael Church
Sunday June 9, 2002
The Observer

When Saudi Arabia became the first team to be eliminated from the World Cup on Thursday, it may have pleased the Saudi Football Federation and their dominant clubs. Why? Because it means less interest in their players.
This does not please Saudi stars. They are paid riches but denied a bigger stage for their talent, whereas African countries are poor but at least their players can roam wherever they want. Nwankwo Kanu, Patrick Mboma and Quinton Fortune are familiar to fans in Europe and have aided the growth of African football. It would not be that surprising if Cameroon reached the semi-finals. Their players have had the opportunity to mix it with the best.

Not the Saudis. At USA '94, Saeed Owairan scored one of the great World Cup goals against Belgium. Along with the rest of that squad, Owairan was banned from moving abroad by his football federation. This was to try to protect domestic football and, though the ban was lifted after France '98, nothing has really changed.

One of Saudi's top stars is striker Sami Al Jaber who plays for Al Hilal. The club, with Al Shabab, Al Nassr, Al Ittihad and Al Ahli, dominates Saudi football; they produce or sign up virtually the entire World Cup squad. The game has strong support in Saudi - crowds of up to 70,000 watch the Al Hilal v Al Nassr derby game and Al Hilal recently won the Asian Cup Winners Cup. In 2000 Al Jaber moved on loan to Wolves, only the second Saudi to play abroad. Having impressed manager Dave Jones, Al Hilal then blocked a permanent move.

'The clubs don't want to give [their players] what they deserve,' says Al Jaber. 'But if Saudi Arabia wants to have good players in the future then they have to let them go.'

It is not just the clubs and football authorities who are the problem. The insular Saudi press adds to the anonymous nature of Saudi football. It is another reason why there is barely any outside knowledge or interest in their football.

'Our media don't show what we have,' says Al Jaber. 'When I was in England people were always asking me what it was like in Saudi Arabia. We have good talent, good players and a good league but why does no one know?'
what a reply...:eekani:
thank u for this excellent reply(especially for the information it contains)...u really put KSA soccer in a good place in the world:D
 

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Emperor said:
alsalamo 3alaykom
why we cann't say that 1994 wc was just a good luck for KSA...
they show a bad performance after this wc...and in 1998 they was really very bad...and in 2002 they was the worst team...so iam afraid from 2006 in germany what they will make that if they qualify...:neutral:
Emperor.. what's your problem with the Saudi NT??!! :mad:

You've been on our back all the while.. and you're really starting to be a big pain in the neck!!.. Why can't we say it was luck that saw Barcelona reach the Champions League this year?? cut the crap about luck and stuff...

It's not as if we're seeing your NT in the WC year in year out.. and the game against the Arab XI proves you do have good players.. same as us..

There are a lot of Saudis here in the Arabian forum (me included).. so Emperor.. please try to be a bit more respectful to us.. or simply put a lid on it!!! :mad:
 

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Emperor said:
alsalamo 3alaykom
why we cann't say that 1994 wc was just a good luck for KSA...
they show a bad performance after this wc...and in 1998 they was really very bad...and in 2002 they was the worst team...so iam afraid from 2006 in germany what they will make that if they qualify...:neutral:
Whenever a team you hate does well, its good luck....like Real Madrid, its all the same...when your team loses, its bad luck...

Pathetic :yuck:
 

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MINDSCAPE said:
Why you don't see any Saudi players in Europe...

Michael Church
Sunday June 9, 2002
The Observer

Hi Mindy.. wasn't expecting to see you here :)

Anyway the article is kinda to the spot.. If there is anyone to blame.. it's the FA.. and our clubs and their executives.. and the only thing getting hurt by their selfishness was the NT!! :depress:

I hope that will change now.. although we were eliminated with 3 straight losses (8-0, 1-0 and 3-0).. I think we showed in the final 2 games what the Saudi NT can actually do.. for those two games.. I salute the team and the players did try and try.. we even out shot Ireland and Cameroon in both games..

There were a few players that did leave positve marks.. namely.. Tukar (No. 3, Central Defender), Al Khathran (Midfield), Temyat (Attacking Midfield) and even Shileyah (Right Back) and Al Shalhoob (Came on for the last 20 minutes against Ireland).. Others.. well for a few it seems like the end of their long careers.. such as Sami Al Jaber.. Mohammed Al Doayea (maybe).. Abdulla Sulaiman and Khamis Al Owairan.. Hussein Abdul Ghani needs to improve or else he'd be added to that list..

Regardless, The results and the fact we didn't score is a shame.. but I'm not one who will sit aside and cry it out.. I'd say start the healing process now.. and I hope the FA is thinking in the same sense too..

I think we all know the Saudi NT can improve.. as the room for improvement is huge!! But it won't happen without the FA, players and everyone involved working for it... How I hope they wake up and start doing positive actions!! :)
 

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Just a quick question for those well-versed in the Saudi football matter. The Observer article says Al Jaber was the second Saudi to play abroad. Who was the first?
 

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Fahad alGheshian played for AZ alkamaar on loan.

He's the right winger who scored against Sweden in 94.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Unfortunately, Emperor is not totally wrong.

Another observation is that many nations participating in the WC have very few if any players playing in top European clubs and are doing well, such as Mexico and Costa Rica. Iran on the other hand did not improve since Asian Cup 1996. After that year, IRaninan players began flooding Europe. The same thing goes concerning Egypt and Morocco. Now I am beginning to doubt whether there will be any significant improvement in our football if some players move to Europe. There are two reasons behind that.

1- The Saudi league is not that bad. That is probably our problem. Our league is not strong enough to produce a strong NT, on the other hand, it is not weak enough to force many players to move to Europe for better wages like the African nations. Our geographical approximity to Europe is certainly an advantage that many countries would love but is yet to be used.

2- Asia is clearly the weakest continent. Our top clubs and NT cannot improve if we constantly keep playing inferior teams. Look at Hilal for example, we won the ACWC this year the super cup last year and the AC cup the year before. The question is how many competitive games did Hilal play in these tournaments? probably no more than two in each. The other close scores are because Hilal played bad, i.e. to the level of the opponent. The same goes for the NT. We have qualified to the final match in the last 5 Asian cups winning three. And with the serious decline of Khaliji football the Gulf cup doesn't do anything for the NT. Therefore, our NT is forced to play to the level of our opponents and may even lose to inferior teams. Only matches against Korea, Japan and IRan have any positive effect. Compare that to the number of competetive matches NT's in other continents play every year. The Intecontinental (later confederation) cup helped a lot in the nineties to improve our NT. But the last time we participated was three years ago.

Japan and Korea are doing well this WC but I don't think they can sustain their form for long as long as they will have to play Thailand, Hong Kong, Indonesia and as long as Saudi Arabia is their strongest opponent no matter how much they invest in their program. Not being able to constantly play strong, competitive matches will not allow them to even come near to reaching their potential. Unfortunately, I don't see any kind of improvement in Asian football in general. At least not in the recent future.
 

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Dossary said:
1- The Saudi league is not that bad. That is probably our problem. Our league is not strong enough to produce a strong NT, on the other hand, it is not weak enough to force many players to move to Europe for better wages like the African nations. Our geographical approximity to Europe is certainly an advantage that many countries would love but is yet to be used.

2- Asia is clearly the weakest continent. Our top clubs and NT cannot improve if we constantly keep playing inferior teams. Look at Hilal for example, we won the ACWC this year the super cup last year and the AC cup the year before. The question is how many competitive games did Hilal play in these tournaments?
Japan and Korea are doing well this WC but I don't think.....etc
1- I disagree here.. I think that all the players that have had the European exposure have improved as players.. now whether that has improved their NTs or not is a matter of how their NT's managers deal with a) the star players b) the gulf between the Euro based improved players and the other ones.. looking at Iran.. well I can't say Euro football has improved them THAT much since the Euro teams rarely play them as first team regulars.. eith the exception of Mehdevekia and the Perugia defender maybe.. But to me.. the facilities, trainings, technique learnings and the exposure are surely a positive side that have to be taken into consideration.. comparing that to staying in the Saudi League (especially for non Hilali players as since this year's final.. it seems most players and clubs have actually given up!!) I can't see how someone would want to stay here rather than joining a Eurppean team.. then again.. even Hilali players.. most notably Al Temyat have made it clear that they want to go to Europe but Al Hilal made the deal kinda impossible to go through... :rolleyes:

2- I agree here.. on a NT level.. it is a problem.. as for the club level.. I think it would be solved when the AFA form the Asian Champions League as it would mean that the team winning it would have to go to hell and back to actually win.. unlike the current set up..
 

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Inquest ordered into Saudi World Cup disaster

From UMBRO.com:

The Saudi Arabia FA have are set to launch an inquiry into the country's disastrous World Cup campaign.

Saudi finished bottom of Group E after losing each of their three matches and failed to score a single goal.

"It is high time we had the opportunity to find out where things went wrong," said federation official Prince Turki Bin-Khaled.

"We're not just aiming to find out what happened during the three games but in the run-up to the competition too."

Bin-Khaled claimed the inquiry would not seek to single out any particular individual, even though Saudi press reports claim that coach Nasser Al-Johar faces the axe. "We are not in the hunt for a scapegoat."
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I really wonder how serious they are?? then again.. personally I feel the reasons are crystal clear.. they could investigate all they want.. and in the end say this and that.. but finding out what was the problem is only half (well much less than half) the solution!! they need to react.. I personally think they are short of time and effort!!
 

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Saudi go after Olsen, Troussier and Hiddink

Saudi go after Olsen, Troussier and Hiddink
From onefootball.com
Monday 17th June 2002

Saudi Arabia have drawn up an ambitious short-list of managers to replace Nasser Al-Johar including Denmark's Morten Olsen, Philippe Troussier of Japan and South Korea boss Guus Hiddink.

"Olsen currently tops the list," revealed a Saudi FA director. "Philippe Troussier and Guus Hiddink are also on it, but with their sides still very much in the World Cup, Olsen is gaining ground."

Saudi Arabia experienced a disastrous World Cup campaign as they followed up an 8-0 defeat against Germany with further losses to Cameroon and the Republic of Ireland.

London-based Saudi daily Asharq Al-Awsat, meanwhile, claims Al-Johar was sacked by the Saudi delegation at the World Cup after the embarrassing defeat to Germany.

The decision was not revealed until after the three group games to avoid disrupting harmony in the squad.

Olsen steered Denmark to the top of Group A ahead of Senegal, Uruguay and France. His side lost 3-0 to England in the second round at the weekend.
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Personally, I wouldn't really know if Olsen would be the solution to our problem.. Troussier and Hiddink have proven to be excellent aquisitions by the Japanese and Koreans respectively.. and thinking of hiring them would simply be copying them in what they did.. personally, I want us to improve into something even better.. and I think we need to go for someone a bit more powerful and tactful than Olsen.. what I think we need is a manager/coach/director of football who's willing to start from scratch.. and from what I've heard.. Prince Abdulla (Crown Prince) has sent a message to Sultan bin Fahad, Nawaf bin Fahad and suprisingly Prince AbdulMajid (Prince of the Makkah Region) simply saying he wants Saudi to turn into a sporting rival (especially in football) and that he expects the three to do whatever they can to acheive that.. using a plan that he will personally approve!! Now that's one guy who really got pissed :) anyway I think they should do it right or not bother at all..
 

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Yasir,

If Olsen is committed like Troussier is, and is given the right to do what he sees best, we will improve immensly. Lets be honest, no one thought much of Troussier or Hiddink before this WC as supremo coaches.

Don't know who else is available out there, do you? :confused:

I heard the Crown Prince has set-up a new delegation, something like a consultant group, to work immediatly with the FA after the dismal WC. Have you heard about that?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
A couple of points:

1- I find it funny that Turki bin Khaled requests an investigation. Hasn't he been the "mushrif" of the NT since the Gulf Cup? If he really is unaware of what went wrong then what was his purpose? The position of "mushrif" was newly created and he is the first to hold it.

2- Bringing a top-notch coach is risky. Abdo Saleh El-Wahsh pointed out some problems such as, the coach having a been-there done-that attitude and wouldn't really give everything he has especially when things don't go exactly his way. Ofcourse, in our case money may be the sole reason for accepting the job not building a strong team. There are also other issues such as not going down to the players level and polishing their basics before getting too technical. The NT needs radical changes but it would mean bad results in the first one or two years. I don't think our FA is that patient. El-Wahsh claims that it is better to get a young promising coach with full knowledge of modern football. A coach who has shown potential but has yet to prove himself at the world stage. This type of coach will do everything to succeed and make a name for himself. In this WC, Bruno Mitsu among others come to mind. There are many coaches in European leagues, such as the French league who can do wonders with our NT. At this stage we don't need some tactical genius, we need simpler organized football that concentrates on fitness and hardwork. There are also some good coaches in our region like, Dimitri, Balaci, Lucca, George Arthur, Oscar and even Macalla who have proven themselves and would certainly love to make a name for themselves in WC2006. The key issue is that the next coach needs to stay until 2006. Asian Cup 2004 will be held in China, it will be dominated by East Asian teams, so let's not worry too much about winning it. LEt's not question the next coach until the end of WC2006 qualifiers.

3- I am not surprised about the crown prince's stand. The football program has always been the pride of our government. I even recall King Fahd in 1989 when he visited the USA, in a speech about the success and modernization of Saudi Arabia, he included our recent win in the U17 WC! However, I wonder what pr. Abdulmajeed has to do with this. The FA needs strong leadership, we already have dozens of committees and subcommittees.
 

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Eight-goal defeat a 'disaster' for Asian football

Friday 12th July 2002

Asian football confederation general secretary Peter Velappan has claimed Saudi Arabia's World Cup performance set back the cause of the continent's football.

"How can we claim an additional place in the World Cup when Saudi are getting hammered 8-0?" he spat.

Velappan has long-held a reputation for candour, but his words still shocked Asian observers. "This is making our mission much harder," he went on.

Velappan admitted, though, that the Saudis had been unfortunate in the timing of the tournament.

"Saudi Arabia have seen their position in the Fifa rankings deteriorating over the past four months and their World Cup campaign indicated the bitter status of their football."

But that, he said, could not hide the damage done to the image of the Asian game by their capitulation to Germany.

"The disastrous defeat in the opening game set the whole world thinking about heaviest-ever defeats in World Cups, prompting prominent figures within Fifa to put on hold plans to improve the football status of Asia.

"That will hammer our efforts to get extra places at the 2006 finals. Despite the achievements of Japan and South Korea, I can assure you that nobody at Fifa wants a team competing at the World Cup and losing 8-0, or even 5-0 as China did to Brazil.

"We need consistency. We just cannot see Saudi Arabia have a blistering campaign in their first-ever appearance in the competition back in 1994, before slipping back so badly eight years later, despite gaining much-needed experience in the USA."

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Well the least I can say is that if I was in his place.. I would have said much harsher words.. !!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Re Velappan,

He is certainly entitled to his opinion. But it is a huge mistake to lash out against members of his federation publically like that. I don't even know what was the objective of such statement? Is he on a personal vendetta against KSA? or has he been bribed to make a case against asia's fifth spot? He has been in this position for 20 years. What exactly did he do to improve the competition in Asia??

He should have excercised leadership qualities by standing up for countries in Asia. Did anyone in Africa critisize Cameroun for Russia's 6 goals in USA 94? Not at all. They depended on Nigeria's success in reaching the second round to get 5 spots. They didn't care about Morocco's three losses and Cameroun's thrashing. In 98, both Cameroun and Morocco made good come backs. And here, Korea reaches the Semis and Japan the 2nd round and the idiot Velappan thinks is not enough to get five positions and actually making a case against it?! Africa never got more than 1 team past the first round in any WC in the past.

Clearly, with a comment like that he doesn't deserve this position. I wonder why he is there that long. The proper statement should have emphasized the success of both Japan and Korea and mentioned that China did well for there 1st ever WC and that this exposure will create more enthusiasm within the fans and KSA simply had a bad WC and will bounce back and that there are other stong nations like Iran who are World class etc....
 

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Dossary: I agree with you mostly. I wouldn't, however, go so far as to say that Velappan has a vendetta against KSA or that he's being bribed. The problem is that nothing has really been done to improve Asian football. More competitions with the strongest teams in the World should be arranged. But we only have friendlies. The Confederation Cup was not our idea. Other recommendations could also have been made to improve the structure of national teams and leagues (although, of course, this would be in the best interests of the teams themselves). But as you said, nothing significant has really been done.
 
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