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Discussion Starter #1
I'm asking you this purely to hear both sides of the argument and not to start some shouting match. I've heard the Lisbon angle, but not the Porto angle. Other than Ola getting furious and screaming slander I haven't heard a true rebuttle. So tell me, what is the deal with the bribery scandal? How did it start and where did it go? I know this may be next to impossible, but please try to answer me objectively. Is there any truth to the allegations? I realize that Porto wins every year because they have been much better than the rest. I don't even try to deny that and I don't blame the refs. I'm merely trying to learn the whole story. I read about it in an old issue of Wolrd Soccer and I've read inflammatory posts. I'd like to hear the other side. Please answer me and don't simply erase this post. I don't mind if you erase inflammatory responses from other fans, but I would like an answer. Marcoa, you can be fairly unbiased and I know Ola can if he tries. So, help me out in my quest to fully educate myself in the matter and maybe we can lay it all to rest. At least I could.
 

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all i can say is.....unfounded accusations. Its the old story Industrious North vs the South. The south cannot tolerate the north so they come up with accusations on the success of the north. The fact of the matter remains that no matter how good Benfica/Sporting were Porto were still better.



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Forca Jardel!
Forca Porto!
Forca Portugal!

http://portista.socceralliance.com
 

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Discussion Starter #3
What exactly were the basis for the accusations? Even if the allegations are totally false, there must have been some initial claim. Are people simply claiming Porto pays refs to help fix games? If so, that is the crap people claim against Juventus every year. Or is the claim more backhanded, as in so-in-so knows somebody on some board who controls Portuguese football etc...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You're not exactly a fountain of information, Marcoa
 

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its an old topic that I find people on this forum have beat to death
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So because I'm fairly new to the forum means I'll never get a full answer? This total lack of cooperation makes me wonder if there really isn't something to the whole business.
 
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You know daeone, this little ploy to raise muck isn't fooling no one. I suggest you drop this naive angle and get on with things.

To make a long story short, allegations were raised and continually are thrown in the face of Portistas for the last few years. The fact of the matter is that FCP broke the lock on Portuguese football that the other two had, especially you know who. What FCP has done is essentially shift the attention of the football world to them and the north of Portugal. Furthermore, Mr. Pinto da Costa, a man who is never a at a loss for words, has stood up to the Lisbon controlled media mafia and those in Lisbon who thought it was their divine right to win every championship every year. Those who are not FCP fans have decided to make excuses for their teams misfortunes, such as almost going bankrupt, firing 4 coaches in one year, buying players and then not paying them, playing games against international competition and getting humiliated and so on. See, when you are inadequate and cannot compete the easiest thing to do is simply blame others for your shortcomings. I guess it was Porto's fault for not paying Thomas, I guess it was Porto's fault for firing 4 Sporting coaches in one year, I guess Porto was part of the conspiracy that saw Benfica get 'schooled' in football that horrible night when they faced Celta Vigo, I guess it was Porto's fault that Benfica signed a contract and then backout with a childish excuse, I guess it was Porto that forced Benfica to pay loans back to Finibanco or else be prosecuted, I guess it was Porto's fault that Benfica was essentially running a pharmacy and allowing players to take drug enhancing drugs, I guess it was Porto's fault that ................blahblahblahblahblahYadaYadaYadaYada.

I am pretty sure you get the drift!


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Viva O Norte
Viva Porto
Viva Futebol Clube do Porto
Viva Pinto da Costa



[This message has been edited by Ola (edited 29-03-2000).]
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Why won't you people answer my damn question? All i am trying to do is get a complete understanding of what this entire scandal is about. You can be as paranoid as you ****ing want. I don't care. I realize you don't trust anybody. But, as I have stated before, my access to info on Portuguese soccer is limited. I have heard a great deal about this stupid scandal and I'm trying to fully understand what people are accusing Porto of. I personally don't make excuses for my team. They have stunk for the past few years and don't deserve to have won anything. My goal is to simply understand what all the fuss is about concerning the scandal. You can believe me or not. However, I do find your total reluctance to address the subject to be very interesting. If the scandal is b u l l s h i t, and I think it is, then just tell me about it for god's sake. I live in ****ing Tallahasse. I have no news concerning this subject, but I have heard about it many times on this forum. All I want is a history of what everyone seems to think is fact. Your total paranoia is not very comforting. Bribing or no bribing, I know Sporting hasn't derserved **** for years. All I want is a ****ing answer so I might become fully educated on the subject. Your reluctance to help me out is very disheartening and very suspicious.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
That's it?!!! What a waste of time. After hearing nothing but anti-Porto comments from everyone else on this forum, I thought I'd try and get your take on the bribery scandal. I did this because I wanted both sides of the story so that I might form my own opinion. What happens? I'm brushed off by Marcoa, who I thought would at least give a straight answer. I always considered you to be a stand-up kind of guy. You've been honest with me about everything up to this point (as have I). I expected anger from Ola, but I also hoped you might talk to me about the entire problem. I understand that the isue is old news to you guys, but it's new to me. I follow Italian football and they are always crying about Juve having the refs in their pocket. I was wondering if this was the same thing: sour grapes. In order for me to understand the issue, I need a well rounded answer. I'm not writing a damn report, I'm simply trying to understand what the big deal is. All my Sporting brothers seem to believe that Porto has bought their championships. I don't believe it!!!! But, I want to fully understand the issue at hand. If you people can't help me understand, then I have little choice to believe the conspiracy fans since they are the only people willing to answer the question. What's with you guys?!!!
 

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whoa whoa whoa Daeone....I think OLA answered you pretty well....
 
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Hey boys and girls, look!

It's the champion of free speech and the crusader of truth.

Its Super daeone!

Geez you must be from Tallahasse
 

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Daeone,
If you try and discuss this in a mature manner with these guys you just get ridiculed as seen above.
That's what happened to Laureano recently.
But remember Porto fans want respect for their teams achievements. They get very angry that most people don't believe they deserve their success. They can get as angry as they want, we don't respect what their team has achieved.
ps
Congratulations to Porto on a magnificent 6th straight Primeira Liga title.

[This message has been edited by Santamaria (edited 29-03-2000).]
 

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oh Santa Maria take your self-righteous attitude out of here..........


cheira mal, cheira a lisboa
 

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Daeone, you're like a little lost sheep asking the wolves for direction!

You should know not to ask these very sensitive questions in the Porto forum. You're not going to get anything but misdirection on the subject.

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Viva o Benfica!
 
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Why don't you Sporting and Benfica cry-babies go take space in your own foruns?

There is one thing I find very illogical: Benfica claims 6 million fans, Sporting claims another 3 million, leaving less than a million for FCP. Yet, all the refs would side with Porto!? Makes no sense.

You just don't know how to accept graciously that with the end of the dictatorship in April of 1974 so ended the dictatorship of Benfica and Sporting. Porto has dominated the last couple of decades with a lot of work, investment, and the vision of a man: Pinto da Costa. Because he is outspoken and stands up to the Lisbon clowns he is accused of all kinds of things.

As far as the case that daeone keeps whining about, Pinto da Costa sued for slander and difammation of character but every time they go to court the case gets continued because the opposition doesn't show up. Get over it, daeone, there is no case - just envy and sour grapes!

VIVA O PORTO!
 
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more like resentment and indignation at the unfairness. There's a big black cloud of doubt over Porto's "achievements".
Anyway, we don't really care - we know 2nd place is the real championship.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The sad thing is that at no point, and I stress no point, have I really believed the scandal to be true. All I ever wanted is the Porto guys to talk to me about the thing. I simply want to understand it. I believe that no team other than Porto deserves to have won the championship for the last five years. I think Porto runs a top flight operation. This apparently puts me in the minority as far as Sporting/Benfica fans go. If you choose to believe otherwise then you are simply paranoid and can go to hell. I won't stand for my intentions being so rudely questioned. I'll say it again, for one last time, all I wanted was some info on what the allegations really were and who made them. I don't need lectures on how great Porto is and how Lisbon teams haven't deserved to win. I already know that, for God's sake and have said so repeatedly. Ola has said that repeatedly, as well, and I agree with him. But, that doesn't answer my initial question. All I wanted was some specifics. It's a shame that only Sporting/Benfica fans will talk about the thing. As a moderator of the Sporting forum, I just wanted both sides of the allegations, not simply defensive answers. You guys never had to defend yourselves to me, because I never accused Port of anything.

And, Ola, as far as the free speech taunts go, you can stick them somewhere nice and tight. I never claimed to be anything of the sort. That's what you make me out to be and that's your problem. All I said is I would listen to both angles and try to understand the problem. I never whined about a damn thing, I'm just frustrated at the lack of cooperation. I just hoped someone as smart as you could lower your fists and have a discussion on what is apprently a very sensitive topic. Obviously, I was wrong.

On second thought, forget I ever asked. After all this BS I'm still no where closer to understanding what everyone is talking about. What a waste of time.

[This message has been edited by daeone (edited 30-03-2000).]
 
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