[Fangio]

...who do you consider really already great players, that are going to have a great career, those which you put your hands on fire:

Many will slip my mind, but these ones are now for me a sure bet:

Gonzalo Rodriguez
Mascherano
Lucho Gonzalez
Lux

..about from same age, still with many clouds, mainly in some cases externall to the pitch, but with the quality to be:

Tevez
..little gap,
Andres D'Alessandro
..little gap,
Chelito Delgado


...tempted to bet a million bucks due to their talent but too much young:

Gago
Messi
Vitti
Palacio

..loaded in skills but with the sense of a black cloud above them ever(and hoping I'm wrong):

Sosa (from Estudiantes)
Barrientos
Cangele (almost out even of this list)
Sambueza
Gata Fernandez

..surprises?

Cata Diaz?
Ferrari?
Mareque?

your choices...better if you follow this weird squeme, but anyway as you please, as if it is necessary...

 

[KnoccOut]

i think d'alessandro needs to move to spain and then he'll shine!! he has alot of skill, messi is gonna be star, tevez well he's gotta come europe, but i really want d'alessandro to move to spain next year if thats possible

 

[Politician]

I worry for Messi and I hope he's able to earn the coach's trust in Barça because he is 100% super talent, but football is also about athleticism and being complete in all things and this makes me worry that Messi won't learn enough in the B team.

 

[Fangio]

Messi don't needa thing to learn, he only needs to play, to have his first downs/ups, but in first division, I wonder why on hell Laporta didn't loan him to Boca if they are buying forwards and midfielders, like if already the kid hasn't enough competence.

The idea of Barca of holding back this type of players, is wrong, and Messi is showing the first sympthons of being tired of situation (I read he is no near the perfomances of prior Sudamericano (a big slap to all the kids involve there). In order to become greater, to make the less quantity of errors, a player must have the chance to screw up, more when young and talented like him.

A dream will be him with Roman in Villareal, if Villa can keep him, they can give the great Gonzalito Rodriguez in exchange; is always easier to find at least a good defender, than aoman or Messi, just guessing...

But people add your names, I want to share that, your disagree, etc..

 

[il_principe]

Cavenaghi, Maxi ?

 

[Cavenaghi...GOL]

I agree with a good amount of your choices Fangio, for me

Sure bets

Cavenaghi (will be one of the most feared strikers in the world in time).
Mascherano
Lucho Gonzalez
Zabaleta
Costanzo

..about from same age, still with many clouds, mainly in some cases external to the pitch, but with the quality to be:

D'Alessandro
Tevez
JR Riquelme

...tempted to bet a million bucks due to their talent but too much young:

Abelairas
Lavezzi
Aguero
Ustari

..loaded in skills but with the sense of a black cloud above them ever(and hoping I'm wrong):

Sosa
Gaston Fernandez
Sambueza
Biglia
Messi (just don't think he will progress)
Ferreyra

Surprises

Mareque
Luduena
Torres
Cabral

 

[VBI]

You chaps realise that Messi is like, 17, right? A 17 year old should be nowhere NEAR the first team of ANY club. 2-3 years from now, he'll be a regular in the first team squad of Barcelona, but right now he's far too young and under-developed.

Even if the unlikely event of Barca letting him go happens, he'll still become a top quality player, where ever he goes.

 

[Assassin]

You chaps realise that Messi is like, 17, right? A 17 year old should be nowhere NEAR the first team of ANY club. 2-3 years from now, he'll be a regular in the first team squad of Barcelona, but right now he's far too young and under-developed.

Even if the unlikely event of Barca letting him go happens, he'll still become a top quality player, where ever he goes.

It is only that in Argentina if you are 19 years and have not made it to the 1st eleven go find another job which is totally different in Europe.

 

[VBI]

It is only that in Argentina if you are 19 years and have not made it to the 1st eleven go find another job which is totally different in Europe.

That's really a necessity, though isn't it? Due to the high turnover of players in Argentina. I've seen people worrying and even complaining that Messi isn't playing in the first team, but despite him getting a few appearances for the first team, he still has to develop.

He'll become a star, no doubt. But plenty of players have burned out because they played too much when they were too young. It will take time.

 

[Wembley]

Fangio, apart from yours ..I'll considerate these ones:

Pavone
Pisculichi
Zabaleta

The next generations of players in Argentina are a luxury...

 

[Fangio]

That's really a necessity, though isn't it? Due to the high turnover of players in Argentina. I've seen people worrying and even complaining that Messi isn't playing in the first team, but despite him getting a few appearances for the first team, he still has to develop.

He'll become a star, no doubt. But plenty of players have burned out because they played too much when they were too young. It will take time.

Visca, yes is true to some extent, but in Messi's cases they MUST be in the pitch, is the other way around with his kind; with the majority at least a 18 years old is necessary, but this sort of players even 16 is ok for starting. Trust my judgement and experience, everyday out of the pitch for him, or being test by minutes in matches, or one match, three no, and then 20 minutes, WILL RUIN HIM.

Happened even in times when Argentina even had players for ages in the same club, here always a 20 years player with no matches in first division is rare, also, but more because of what you are saying.

In the case of Messi type, they must be playing NOW.
The other day Gallego (he is an expert of throwing youg talented players to the pitch), was laughing of how Bochini in Independiente was holding back some players and his opinion is that in many cases ruin them. The cases of Messi, Mascherano, Tevez, Gago, Palacio, and recently Saviola, Aimar, Riquelme, etc...is completely necessary to play really young.

Is nothing against Barca BTW, is just the way Argentina and Brazil produced ALWAYS their biggest players, we let them taste the bitter sooner as we can; to from there: the sky is the limit. (Di Stefano, Sivori, tons even in times when we had more money and resources than whole Europe).

Messi is REALLY, REALLY different, is perhaps the best prospect at his age, he knows this, and he will began to think too much and desconcentrate for not having already what should be his first steps in first division, remeber that he develope here, and he is pure argie, an dneeds badly to play, and in no way he has fear of the challenge, not at all, he will began to think he is not that good if he don't play, argies base many times their garra, in no small inferiority complex, ill necesity of winnning, of be challange, when this doesn't happen, many argie players tend to say "**** all" and viva la vida loca.

With Lionel I still don't get what was the danger on loaning to Boca, we aren't even near to have the money to buy him, and you could even increase the value of a player that alraedy had signed a long term contract, and a high "clausula de rescision"...

Back in the rest of the theard, about the players mentioned, yeap Zabaleta can be a new Kily, a solid long time high level competence player, but not the sort of player I like that much..
About Cavenaghi his move to Russia puts him in the: "..about from same age, still with many clouds, mainly in some cases external to the pitch, but with the quality to be", and man I hope badly he makes bench Crespo, but seems right now far to conquer that task, I have my figers cross anyway.

Cave, roman is clearly getting out from this category I invented, but yeap still just coming out: because of being in Villareal, his contract is in a lot of rare atmosphere, etc, ... hoping the cloud was left behind from now on...

 

[Cavenaghi...GOL]

Aye, i nearly didn't put Roman down at all, as you say he is definitely getting out of that category but it would be interesting to see if he can do what he has done at Villareal anywhere else where the manager wouldn't change the style of play just to suit him.

 

[Fangio]

Aye, i nearly didn't put Roman down at all, as you say he is definitely getting out of that category but it would be interesting to see if he can do what he has done at Villareal anywhere else where the manager wouldn't change the style of play just to suit him.

never said so, in fact I agree with you, and just chating and hoping a btter future situation, read it again..nah, is the usuall bad way of expressing myself.

 

[kingmonkey]

I was going to start a new thread but I've decided I'll just add to this one instead..

Lucho Gonzalez.. Seem he's highly rated by you guys and there is a rumour that he's joining FC Porto in the summer.

What can you tell me about him?

Thanks in advance for any info!

 

[Fangio]

I was going to start a new thread but I've decided I'll just add to this one instead..

Lucho Gonzalez.. Seem he's highly rated by you guys and there is a rumour that he's joining FC Porto in the summer.

What can you tell me about him?

Thanks in advance for any info!

Do you read spanish man? the best analysis is here in the first post of this thread, sorry for not translating it, I'm lazy and many words are sort of spanish slang:

http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=156070

 

[Paraiso]

That's really a necessity, though isn't it? Due to the high turnover of players in Argentina. I've seen people worrying and even complaining that Messi isn't playing in the first team, but despite him getting a few appearances for the first team, he still has to develop.

He'll become a star, no doubt. But plenty of players have burned out because they played too much when they were too young. It will take time

Fruit rots if you leave it on the tree too long.

Look at Marinelli. The few times I actually saw him play for Middlesborough he played fantastically. He eventually came back to Argentina via Boca and his confidence was shot. I see him now and he doesn't look half the player he was. He was even loaned out to Torino and he played pretty well over there. His case is similar to Messi's although I rate Messi higher. For Messi they blow smoke up his ass to no end but sit him on the bench to wait his turn. Him being so talented do you think his competitive impulse doesn't tell him; hey look at that guy I know I'm better than him. His Argentinian friends are all playing first team football but he sits while older and not neccesarily better players play infront of him. Barcelona are guarding him to prevent physical burn out but it's his confidence they should be worried about. He needs first team football so that his confidence doesn't start to wander off. I don't think there's a place in Barcelona's first team for him yet, but I do think they should have him loaned out and give him the chance to make mistakes on his own and develop characteristics that are only learned by playing all the time. Reserve team football is not competitive. The stakes aren't as high as if he were playing for a team that was fighting relegation or fighting to win the league.



Paraiso

 

[Assassin]

Fruit rots if you leave it on the tree too long.

Look at Marinelli. The few times I actually saw him play for Middlesborough he played fantastically. He eventually came back to Argentina via Boca and his confidence was shot. I see him now and he doesn't look half the player he was. He was even loaned out to Torino and he played pretty well over there. His case is similar to Messi's although I rate Messi higher. For Messi they blow smoke up his ass to no end but sit him on the bench to wait his turn. Him being so talented do you think his competitive impulse doesn't tell him; hey look at that guy I know I'm better than him. His Argentinian friends are all playing first team football but he sits while older and not neccesarily better players play infront of him. Barcelona are guarding him to prevent physical burn out but it's his confidence they should be worried about. He needs first team football so that his confidence doesn't start to wander off. I don't think there's a place in Barcelona's first team for him yet, but I do think they should have him loaned out and give him the chance to make mistakes on his own and develop characteristics that are only learned by playing all the time. Reserve team football is not competitive. The stakes aren't as high as if he were playing for a team that was fighting relegation or fighting to win the league.



Paraiso

Post of the year! :thmbup:

 

[VBI]

Fruit rots if you leave it on the tree too long.

Look at Marinelli. The few times I actually saw him play for Middlesborough he played fantastically. He eventually came back to Argentina via Boca and his confidence was shot. I see him now and he doesn't look half the player he was. He was even loaned out to Torino and he played pretty well over there. His case is similar to Messi's although I rate Messi higher. For Messi they blow smoke up his ass to no end but sit him on the bench to wait his turn. Him being so talented do you think his competitive impulse doesn't tell him; hey look at that guy I know I'm better than him. His Argentinian friends are all playing first team football but he sits while older and not neccesarily better players play infront of him. Barcelona are guarding him to prevent physical burn out but it's his confidence they should be worried about. He needs first team football so that his confidence doesn't start to wander off. I don't think there's a place in Barcelona's first team for him yet, but I do think they should have him loaned out and give him the chance to make mistakes on his own and develop characteristics that are only learned by playing all the time. Reserve team football is not competitive. The stakes aren't as high as if he were playing for a team that was fighting relegation or fighting to win the league.



Paraiso

Different strokes for different folks. Or in this case, different countries.

NO teenager has the "right" to first team football. Anywhere. It happens in some places, and doesn't happen in others. I think we should loan him out, but given his young age, a year or two with the B team isn't going to destroy him. People his age shouldn't even be THINKING about first team football, yet he's tasted it. I should point out that just about every player in the whole of Europe has went through exactly what Messi is going through now. So it's not like he is suffering some hardship, he is being developed the same way as countless others. Indeed, the same as guys like Guardiola and Xavi and Puyol did at the very same youth academy.

Looking at this season, he has played in several first team games, plus he had that youth tournament with Argentina, and currently he is injured. For a guy his age, he's had more than most, and certainly more than a guy his age can expect.

 

[ampersand]

fangio, where would you put depetris?

 

[kingmonkey]

Hey Fangio, thanks for that link, I managed to get the main points from it.

It seems however that FC Porto is on an Argentina trip at the moment, because it's just been reported that we have signed a Racing Avelaneda striker, Lisandro Lopez.

I know even less about this guy than I did about Lucho!

What can you guys tell me about this new guy?