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HEY, WHA' HAPPENED?
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Now I never saw what happened at last nights Aberdeen-Rangers game as I sadly lack Sky TV. But I have Radio Scotland & so was eagerly attached to the radio listening to a rather uneventful game, until some idiotic Rangers fans begun peltering Robbie Winters with coins as he went to take an Aberdeen corner kick. Straight after this a group of equally twattish Dons fans tried to get out of the stand, run along the side of the pitch & get into the away stand. Riot police who were outside waiting until AFTER the game were called into diffuse the situation, & batons were flying. Innocent people got injured in all this & personally I was sickened by it. How on Earth can Scotland bid for Euro 2008 if we have fans hell-bent on beating the sh!t out of each other & the players?

I was completely sickened when I heard this all happen, & even more sickened at half-time when a report came in that at least two people had to be taken from the stadium & dropped off at Aberdeen Royal Infirmary. Half of the Aberdeen Family Stand was empty by half-time, with parents sensibly taking their children out of the stadium because it just wasn't safe. I'd have left myself, if I had children or not because I go to football to watch my side (normally lose with Ross County) & not to start/be involved in any form of violence.

We all know of the rivalry (read hatred:()between the 2 sides, not helped in recent years by the "tackle" of Neil Simpson on Iain Durrant, almost ending the career of one of the best Scottish midfielders of the '90s, the Aberdeen fans disrespecting a 1 minute silence for a Rangers & Scotland legend, George Young, Fernando "Full-Time Idiot" Ricksen's martial arts kick on Darren Young & now, Aberdeen Cup Winner's Cup winning defender, Alex McLeish coaching "the enemy" all goes a long way to stoking the fire, but there is so much more to it. How they can throw coins at anyone I do not know, let alone someone who is supposed to be entertaining them (yes, football IS still entertainment, no matter how bad things go regarding idiotic fans); it's all far beyond my comprehension.

The question is what punishment should be given out to both sides, both equally guilty for gross stupidity? Well on the radio they discussed stopping Aberdeen fans going to Ibrox & Gers fans going to Pittodre, but if they want to go they still will, tickets are always available on the black market & it will just means the 2 sides mixing together, surely not sensible. And then there is fining both sides heavily, but this will not deter these "fans" (read hooligans) ruining it for everyone else. A simple solution, whilst very harsh, is the relegation of Rangers & Aberdeen to Division 3, to show them that they should not be letting these people into their stadiums. Both clubs will be hit hard, with TV rights going down the sh!tter as no one cares about Division 3 (I know they do, County once played in that league, but you get the general idea), players won't want to play for such unimportant sides &, more importantly for Rangers, there will be no European football for a few years. Harsh? Definetly. But something harsh needs to be done showing that this behavior will not be tolerated in Scottish football or else we will be returning to the ways of the '60s & '70s where we were as bad/worse than the English.

That is not acceptable.
 

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First of all - I dont think it will harm Scotlands bid for Euro2008 (not having 8 rather than 6 good enough stadiums will be alot more damaging)

I dont know if anything like this has been mentioned in the news.... but i read an email from a fan on rangers mailing list last week warning for people going to the game to be careful because Aberdeen casuals had invited up their counterparts at Spurs, for a pre-arranged fight against Rangers casuals who in turn had invited the Chelsea ones up...i didn't really pay this any attention but now after what happened maybe this explains it partly....

Bunch of arseholes whatever the explanation anyway:mad:
 

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cam said:


A simple solution, whilst very harsh, is the relegation of Rangers & Aberdeen to Division 3, to show them that they should not be letting these people into their stadiums. Both clubs will be hit hard, with TV rights going down the sh!tter as no one cares about Division 3 (I know they do, County once played in that league, but you get the general idea), players won't want to play for such unimportant sides &, more importantly for Rangers, there will be no European football for a few years. Harsh? Definetly. But something harsh needs to be done showing that this behavior will not be tolerated in Scottish football or else we will be returning to the ways of the '60s & '70s where we were as bad/worse than the English.

That is not acceptable.
(just read this bit)


Where would it stop though? If you applied this logic across the board in European football then there would hardly be any teams left in Serie A, the Bundesliga, the Dutch premier division, the French... It wouldn't do anything apart from punish the decent fans for the behaviour of a mindless minority.
I think it must also be put into perspective as well - I dont think the hooliganism was *that* bad compared to what has happened elsewhere. I'm not excusing what happened by saying this, just that I have seen alot worse both personally and on TV
 

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HEY, WHA' HAPPENED?
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Discussion Starter #5
The thing is we shouldn't have to accept this sort of behaviour. I have never been to a game where there was physical violence, but once, when I support Rangers, I went to Ibrox with my mum (I was 10, hardly old enough to travel the length of the country was I?) & we were both shocked at the Rangers fans, the fact they threw pies, bovril etc at the Hibs fans in the tier below & since, I have decided I'll never set foot in Ibrox if Rangers are playing, even if it's against Ross County in a SPL Championship decider.

Of course there will be teams left in these leagues because when someone goes down, someone goes up, ie the top placed, non-promoted side in the division below. Simple.

We need action. A £100,000 fine will barely both Rangers, but the loss off TV rights, European cash etc would have them crying themselves to sleep.
 

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cam said:


Of course there will be teams left in these leagues because when someone goes down, someone goes up, ie the top placed, non-promoted side in the division below. Simple.

yeah but what would Serie A be like without Juve, Lazio, Inter, Milan, the Dutch league without Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord, SPL without Rangers, Aberdeen....etc
Those leagues would be devalued terribly if teams were thrown out. Not to mention it being grossly unfair for the vast majority of decent fans who condemn what happened.

It should be the thugs who are punished not everyone else.
 

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HEY, WHA' HAPPENED?
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Discussion Starter #7
Yes but it's like fining clubs really, it's not as if the clubs go around advertising for this people to follow them, but they do, & so the clubs get fined.

If there was a way to stop certain individuals from going to matches then it would already be in use, but I can't see a better solution than my hugely radical one.

Plus, a Serie A with out Juventus would be a helluva lot less corrupt, although the refs would also be a lot worse off, having no one to bribe them.
 

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A precedent was set by the SPL 2 years ago for pitch invasions and coin throwing. It may well have been too lenient then as it today, but it will mean the SPL will "only" fine. I dont see them doing anything else, otherwise they would be open to accusations of bias.
 

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I'd fine both clubs at least 15 points. Though i like the idea of demotion we all know it won't happen. If hamilton can get fined 15 points for industrial action then surely this far worse offence deserves a far worse punishment.

As for the punishing the 'silent majority' well err tough, sorry its a hard life you get all the glory normally so take the rough with the smooth (or perhaps go support your local team???).
 

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Double post opps
 

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Did anyone see the old fella getting a thump on the head and getting really mad. The cops were trying to calm him down. I thought it was really really funny.

Oh yeah the other stuff was bad though...............typical Gers scum
 

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I was semi watching the game on Saturday as I had to entertain relatives at the same time and I must admit I was convinced something major was going to go off especially when those fans appeared on the trackside.

There has slowly but surely been a rise in temperature in some games throughout Britain recently. Aston Villa - Man Utd, Millwall -v- Man CIty and Cardiff -v- Leeds all involved fans being in places they should not have been and now this. Everyone knows there is an intense rivalry between Aberdeen and Rangers and in fact in my experience anyone with a West of Scotland accent is viewed suspiciously in the Granite Cityat the best of times.

Rumours are rife that there were sinister forces (this usually describes most old firm fans pretty well) at work and I don't know that punishing the clubs is the right thing to do although something will have to be done before anyone else gets any ideas.

I think the players deserve some credit for producing probably about as sporting a contest as there has been between these two in quite a while.

The saddest sight was all the kids looking scared on what was probably a big night out for most of them.
 

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Banning "fans" - this wont help much. Football matches are jus meeting points for ppl who want to fight others, they will just fight out on the streets instead : (

Deducting points - I feel this is too severe. It is punishing the club for something an individual has done. Most of the time, the hooligans dont even support any of the teams that are playing.

Fining - in todays game, money (unless its in millions) doesn't really affect football clubs. 100,000 for Rangers is nothing. Two weeks wages for many players nowadays!

Relegation - see deducting points.

It is difficult to find a solution to these problems that have recently re-appeared. Playing closed-door games is the best i can think of. Which is a shame for many fans, but these problems must be addressed somehow.

They only exception was the Man Utd - Villa game. The Man utd fans had no intention to bring violence to the game. They were simply over-joyed at coming back from 2-0 down to win 3-2.
 

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"Deducting points - I feel this is too severe. It is punishing the club for something an individual has done. Most of the time, the hooligans dont even support any of the teams that are playing."

There is no way that it is too severe. The blame comes down between the two clubs, its their 'fans' that are too blame and they are not individuals either, they are rotten elements at the core of a by and large fair fanbase. There are well organised groups who do their best to ruin games like these for the fans. The violence this time occured inside the ground hence it was the respective teams supporters who committed it. Sorry if you don't want them but they are yours (rangers, not your personally).

Take some responsibility for these morons, you don't want them i know but they do belong to you. Only if something is done that directly hurts rangers (points! not money) will rangers take the radical action required.
 

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HEY, WHA' HAPPENED?
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Discussion Starter #15
If Hamilton can get docked 15 points (enough to get them relegated from Division 2) because their players were on strike then Rangers & Aberdeen need to be docked a hefty amount (25 or 30 would seem fair in comparison to the Hamilton thing although because a member of the Old Firm is involved they will probably get a fvcking reward:mad:) or straight relegation to Division 3 because this sets an example to all clubs not to allow this sort of thing to occur EVER again. As I said, it's hugely harsh but this was fvcking diabolical, I am disgusted & feel ashamed to be Scottish because of these people.

As MON says "shocking, SHOCKING"
 

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Originally posted by gildea
I'd fine both clubs at least 15 points. Though i like the idea of demotion we all know it won't happen. If hamilton can get fined 15 points for industrial action then surely this far worse offence deserves a far worse punishment.
Hamilton should never have had those 15 points deducted, but thats not really relevant. The action taken against them was probably taken by the SFL (i'm not 100% sure though) whereas any action against Aberdeen/ Rangers would be taken by the SPL, and the SPL's previous record for disciplining coin throwing and pitch invasions was 'just' a fine (of £45000). I dont think realistically they could do anything further (thats not to say i dont think they should do more, just what is likely to happen)

Also there was coin throwing at the Dundee derby at the weekend, and it was just lucky no-one got hit but the intent was obviously there - should they be punished by dropped points also? Once you start doing this it would be hard to stop, because Aberdeen/Rangers fans would think they are being victimised while others are getting away with it...

here some other incidents that happened within the last few months in Scotland
- Snowballs thrown at Celtic players playing in Aberdeen (ok its 'only' snowballs!)
-John Robertsons (the ex-Hearts player now with Livingston) bar being trashed and bar staff physically abused by Aberdeen "fans" before their game at tynecastle
-Hibs fans wrecking a carriage on a train, smashing the windows, letting off fire extingishers etc when they returned from a game in Glasgow against Rangers
-Pitch invasion by Dundee United fans (or was it Dundee?) during their first derby match of the season

Not to mention a Celtic supporter shot in Amsterdam, one stabbed in Portugal, 2 Rangers supporters hospitalised in Paris (although whether these things were the result of hooliganism, i'm unsure - there was certainly disturbances both in Amsterdam and Paris but it *seems* to have been largely down to the home supporters)

All this sh*t goes on all the time and i dont think deducting points or fines is going to solve anything....i dont know what will though :(


As for the punishing the 'silent majority' well err tough, sorry its a hard life you get all the glory normally so take the rough with the smooth (or perhaps go support your local team???).
Well Rangers are the local team , and the reason i picked them up was because Barca was about a million miles away :depress:


Anyway is still dont believe in punishing the majority of people for the mindless actions of a minority - whether it be in football or other things in life...for example drunk drivers kill hundreds of people every year. But the solution to this is not to ban alcohol from all those people who enjoy it and dont behave like idiots (well they maybe behave like idiots not violent/stupid idiots;) ) but to educate everyone on why drink driving is bad - and punish those who still chose to do it.
 

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Mise_Me_Fein said:
Did anyone see the old fella getting a thump on the head and getting really mad. The cops were trying to calm him down. I thought it was really really funny.

I saw that, and after it happened, that old bloke was really up for it, and he must have been about 70 odd.

It was a bad scene for sure, but its not an isolated incident. Leeds and Cardiff was probably as bad.
 

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The violence this time occured inside the ground hence it was the respective teams supporters who committed it. Sorry if you don't want them but they are yours (rangers, not your personally).
Wot i was sayin was that often these hooligans do not support any of the teams involved, but go to football matches to cause trouble on a large stage where everyone can see. Obviously this isn't always the case but it usually is.
 

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Cam, imagine Rangers and Aberdeen getting relegated to Div.3 What if there was trouble at the fixture then would we have to throw two of the 3 biggest clubs in the country out of the league. Rangers absence alone would have a marked effect on many of the remaining SPL clubs.


As long as they were consistent with the points deductions it could be a good laugh. Imagine the SPL winners romping to victory with a grand total of minus 7 points, ten clear of their nearest competitors on minus 17 :D
 

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HEY, WHA' HAPPENED?
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Discussion Starter #20
The Judge said:
Cam, imagine Rangers and Aberdeen getting relegated to Div.3 What if there was trouble at the fixture then would we have to throw two of the 3 biggest clubs in the country out of the league. Rangers absence alone would have a marked effect on many of the remaining SPL clubs.
Exactly. Just imagine an SPL with out the Old Firm. I'm in heaven already:):cool::D
 
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