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Discussion Starter #1
Ash had this to say:

Ashley Cole believes Arsenal need to change their style if they are to succeed in the Champions League.

Bayern Munich knocked the Gunners out of the competition on Wednesday night making it the seventh successive season Arsene Wenger's side has failed to progress beyond the quarter-finals.

Cole said: "The lads are disappointed because we battled really hard and thought we could do it but it has proved to be just beyond us.

"It always seems to be we get to this stage or the quarter-final and we lose. I don't think anyone knows what's going on.

"Bayern played how every team plays against us, they defended really well and hopefully we can look at that and learn from it. If we can defend as well as they did it will improve our game as well."

Asked if Arsenal suffered from trying to play the same way in Europe as they do in the Premiership, Cole added: "Yes I would say that but then again it's harder in the Champions League.

"I think we maybe play a little bit too intricately in the Champions League and should maybe just take our chances. But it's our own fault and we just have to look forward to next season and try to do a bit better then.

"Now we have a big game on Saturday at Bolton and the lads have got to pick themselves up very quickly for that. The league's not over yet, there are still points to be one but if we win on Saturday that will give us a lot confidence to go on to the end of the season."

Cole has been linked with Chelsea, who are alleged to have 'tapped up' the England left-back, but he believes AC Milan and not Jose Mourinho's side are likely to take the honours in Europe.

He said: "I think AC Milan will win it, they have great players and they kept out a great Manchester United team so I would say probably them."


The part I have bolded is what I'm mostly concerned with. I HATE it when we just keep playing for the perfect goal instead of just putting our f****g foot through the ball. Really gets under my skin and it really costs us so many important goals in big matches. Remember at OT when we got outside their area we kept passing about and f****g about instead of going for it? It's silly considering we have so many players who can just rocket the ball if needed.

Perfect case was Seedorf at OT. As soon as he found space he just leathered it, boom, spilled shot, easy tap-in. Milan knew that Carrol is a mug, so they shot at goal all match, and it paid off. Makalele at Higbury in the CL quater last-season just blasted it in, leaving Lumptard with an easy tap-in. Reyes, Henry, and RVP all have cracking shots but rarely use them, or don't bother to get into the position to use them. They get so bogged down in the passing routine they forget that striking from range is actually a viable option. Why we never use our brain is a mystery.

Has Thierry scored outside the area at all this season? Excluding any FK.
 

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Yes, I agree. Sometimes we need to play effectively instead of over-played in at midfield but bring no result when it comes to the front of the opponent's net. In other words, it is time for our boys learn how to score from dead-ball situation which we have lacked for years.
 

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Your point about long range shooting is good. It is something that players have to do when they get the chance. It does depend on the player's ability to shoot accurately as well. Not like Zlatan who aims at goal but the ball ends up on the corner flag. :eekani: :D

Sometimes a scrappy goal is so much more precious than a beautifully carved one.
 

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currently, at arsenal, who in midfield is able to really connect to a ripper long range drive like seedorf though? seedorf in the past 4 seasons has done many great long range goals.

dont get me wrong, arsenal play beautiful football, great passing, great movement etc...but i dont see anyone doing what seedorf can from long range (Note: using seedorf as an example) Nedved comes to mind when he moves forward through midfield, he lets him rip.

i think for arsenal to win the CL, maybe a different coach is needed. wenger has been there for quite some time now and if he is not willing to change things around to better suit the CL, then maybe he should move on. the epl is great to win, as is the FA cup, but its obvious the players want the bigger accolades.
 

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I think it's not necessary to replace Wenger. He is Arsenal. If CL is the only indicator of his success, the Arsenal management has already dumped him for years. Maybe some non-Arsenal fans would think that we are biased and stubborn, but we are just not that kind of team. It's true that Wenger has failed to bring us CL for many times already, but we have to look things that he brought to our team. He restored our team from mid-table at the beginning, bringing us great players with small amount of money like Vieira, Henry, Anelka, Pires, etc., building our youth system, and more importantly give the stability the club needs to develop into a bigger club by constructing new stadium. We just can't think other people who would have done so well as him.

As much as I want Arsenal to win CL, I'd rather not to see us win it in order to keep Wenger. He is already like father to our players and important figure to our management. I want to see us grow.

Back to the topic, I still believe that a 'beautiful football' can win. If we really want to do well, all we have to do first is building a very strong defense line. I want someone like Chivu to play alongside Campbell and a right-back that defend better than Lauren.

For the long shots department, we used to have Pires, but he rarely played this season and somehow doesn't perform as well as last season. I think Wenger should adapt 4-3-3 formation, we have seen him played with one with Vieira-Fabregas-Flamini on the centre.
 

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I know khimik does not care about my opinion and I know he does not really care about the CL, however if you want to go far in Europe you need to be balanced. And if you want to win the Champions League you must have one of the best defenses in the competition, and that means taking away from the liveliness in attack. You also have to take your chances and not fool around with the ball, making use of what you have and not trying to "over-do it." I think if Arsenal wants to go far in Europe next season they must become more of a compact side and take their time with the ball, not so quick to force the ball where they want it to go.

If you do not care about Europe Arsene Wenger is the perfect manager for you.
 

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As a non Arsenal fan, i see it that maybe Wenger cant offer Arsenal the CL with his style of coaching. yes he has done extremely well and was the only one who could compete and take over Man U's dominance in the past decade in England, but there is more to it if Arsenal are to be considered in the big boy category of europe.

Arsenal have been great in the EPL, but need to show something in europe. If wenger cant do that, then he should move on. Just as other coaches have..eg. lippi and lotti at juve (note that both won a CL and still moved on when they knew they couldnt offer the team anything more).
 

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Discussion Starter #8
CUG said:
currently, at arsenal, who in midfield is able to really connect to a ripper long range drive like seedorf though? seedorf in the past 4 seasons has done many great long range goals.
Pires, Reyes, Vieira and Edu all have belting shots. Pires scores low and hard curling shots from the edge of the box all the time, well he used to anyway. So do Henry and van Persie.
 

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yes, and gattuso and even tacchinardi are known for a long drive, but how many arsenal players currently are doing it? this is what i was saying, currently none are doing it.

im not having a go at the players, pires has scored some great goals from long distance etc..but no one is really having a dig from long range.
 

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CUG said:
yes, and gattuso and even tacchinardi are known for a long drive, but how many arsenal players currently are doing it? this is what i was saying, currently none are doing it.

im not having a go at the players, pires has scored some great goals from long distance etc..but no one is really having a dig from long range.
that was the point they're trying to make. everyone is just passing the ball around and no-one is shooting. they're advocating change.
 

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I've never heard so much bollocks in my life, so the reason we haven't won the CL is because we don't take enough long shots ?

do any of you lot even watch our games in CL before coming in and offering your opinions ?

what you watching the other night CUG ? Juventus by any any chance ?

FFS. :smileani:
 

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It's easy to talk about theory, CUG.

You can't place Arsenal in the same level of big clubs like Milan, Juventus, Real Madrid, etc. which have almost unlimited source of funds at the coach disposal although the media often place us among them. In Arsenal, we have to think 2-3 times before splashing £7 millions on just one player. There're a lot of good players in the past that Wenger interested in, but the club can't afford it like Van Bommel, Kewell, Ayala, Canizares, etc. Even we had to sign Reyes secretly in the middle of season so that no big club would outbid us. At this rate, we are spending as much as other mid-table team doing every season. You can't blame anyone for our situation, both Wenger and Dein are working for our future. We have a coach that can work miracle in crisis, and that's what we want to keep. Because our club is still far from long-term stability and financial security. For an example : Houllier has ruined Liverpool and brought virtually nothing for the club despite of the money he had spent, but Liverpool still have the power to fund Benitez to some extend. That's the power they have as big club, we simply haven't reached that level. If that happens to our club, there's possibility that even we can be relegated like Leeds.

European recognition ? For what ? I have been living as Arsenal fan for quite years already, enjoying the beautiful attacking football that Wenger orchestrated, and I just realized that it's not what we are looking for. After all years, I finally have the mentallity to stand seeing people entered and exited our forum in XT just to say : "Arsenal suck at Europe." Why bother about criticism ? It's not like those people want us to win it anyway. Of course, I do really want us to win CL, every Gooners do. But if it's not our time to win it, then we just have to wait and try again. Maybe failing in Europe has been our tradition so far, but at least we always gave our best.

Replacing Wenger is the last thing all Arsenal fans ever imagine. Heck, I even can't think any better coach who would do as good as Wenger. I won't trade our current state with something uncertain which can ruin every hard efforts the club have done.
 

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as usual agree with Jern...yeah umm...Arsenal lost cause they didnt score on a hard shot...yes, thats it...it needed to be HARD instead of soft i guess...also because Wenger cant win in the CL...see what it is is that he has a little timer that is in his head(i dont know all about it, but its science so it must be true) and what happens is every year it switches the amount of wins he can get in the CL for the current year...biologically its made so that they will never get to the semi's...other than that restriction its a random number of wins every year....really really weird, but its science so who am i to argue...THATS WHY HE CANT WIN IN THE CL....remember, we cant say thats why he isnt winning, its why he CANT...remember, its IMPOSSBLE.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
AS_Roma83 said:
Arsenal lost cause they didnt score on a hard shot
I was talking about the season in general, and not one singular match. I was having a moan about us always looking for the 'perfect' goal and not just putting it in the f**king net. :sleepy:
 

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tbh, it would have been nice to get the chance to have a long range shot the other night, apart from Vieira's one in the 1st half we never got a sighter.

maybe because our midfield was so shockingly poor and we couldn't even keep the ball for longer than five seconds was more to do with our shite performance, perhaps because Ashley Cole and Lauren were too scared to venture over the half way line and Reyes and Ljungberg couldn't trap a brick was more down to it. :rolleyes:

no it was because Senderos and Toure din't shoot from 70 yards out, oh but remember we scored from a wayward Ashley Cole shot that somehow landed on the boot of Henry :D how lucky we were that time. :) :shades:
 

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khimik said:
I was talking about the season in general, and not one singular match. I was having a moan about us always looking for the 'perfect' goal and not just putting it in the f**king net. :sleepy:
you weren't but the other bods were, Ashley Cole is just looking for an excuse and Ashley is talking about the game the other night, when did we get into positons to shoot ?

I think Ashley is just looking for excuses, we were timid in our play and we were outfoxed by Bayern, how we won the tie is a complete mystery.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Andr3w said:
I know khimik does not care about my opinion and I know he does not really care about the CL
Well, you've got at least got something right for a change ...
 

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all i said was that you havent any players scoring long range shots..meaning at the present. i didnt say that long range shots wins you the CL...

Zhuge, i know funds are important but at the same time, united have unlimited funds and yet you were able to get above them in the EPL over the years and become the best team in england. im not saying that funds are not important to buy players, all im saying is that if Wenger and Arsenal can do it in england against teams like united and chelsea who boast more funds than any other, why cant it be done in the CL?

thats something to think about as well.

oh, and Jern, i wish i could watch the juve game, but i was fuking work! i did manage to catch 45 mins of the arsenal game though :)
 

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khimik said:
Well, you've got at least got something right for a change ...

Well good for me.
 

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CUG said:
Zhuge, i know funds are important but at the same time, united have unlimited funds and yet you were able to get above them in the EPL over the years and become the best team in england. im not saying that funds are not important to buy players, all im saying is that if Wenger and Arsenal can do it in england against teams like united and chelsea who boast more funds than any other, why cant it be done in the CL?

Like I said, I don't care if we would succeed in Europe or not. No matter what happened, we won't replace Wenger.

You and me have different perspective of what Wenger can offer. For you, Wenger is finished because he already won every competition the league, FA Cup, but failed to win CL. But for me, he is miles far from being finished. We still need his hand to compete with big boys like Man Utd. and now Chelsea, just like you said, he is the man who can break United domination with much less funds. Not only being far from finished, I'd also say that in several issue, he is just started and just getting warmed-up. We haven't seen how his investment of youngster worked as a team in years ahead. And we haven't seen what can he do after the Emirates Stadium finished as the club will generate more money to have financial stability and more transfer fund available.

Only time will tell who is right between us.
 
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