Xtratime Community banner

1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,209 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The following article is from cnnsi.com, I wondered how Juve, Lazio and Parma fans would react to it as it says exactly what I think, namely:

1. THERE IS NO PROOF OF A SCANDAL.

2. IF THERE IS SOLID PROOF I WILL ACCEPT IT.

3. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DISCREDIT JUVE AND/OR JUVE FANS WHO ARE ON THE VERGE OF SCUDETTO 26, AND DULY DESERVE TO WIN IT THOUGH LAZIO HAVE PROVED TO BE VERY WORTHY OPPONENTS.

4. REFEREES ARE ONLY HUMAN.

5. IN MY OPINION THERE IS NO SCANDAL, WE JUST VERY LUCKY ON SUNDAY.

ok here's the article..

=========
More problems in Italy

by Gabriele Marcotti

In some ways, Italy is a country of Oliver Stones, a place filled with master conspiracy theorists who see evil, underhanded plots everywhere.

Soccer is not immune from this.

Last weekend's events in Serie A showed that there is a growing conviction among clubs, players and fans that things aren't quite the way they should be, that no matter what happens, certain clubs (namely Juventus and, to a lesser degree, AC Milan) will always end up on top.

Serie A has a serious problem, one which, in the words of Lazio chairman Sergio Cragnotti, could "make the Italian game lose its credibility."

Cragnotti has hinted at what some fans already believe, that there is a concerted effort on the part of the Italian federation and referees to favor Juventus.

It's not something which is pleasant to discuss.

In fact, casting doubt on Juventus' success is wrong and unfair towards the players, management and coaches, who have busted their tail ends all season to produce a powerful, cohesive side, and towards the fans, who are on the verge of celebrating their 26th Italian title.

Until somebody comes up with concrete evidence, making accusations is dangerous and unjust.

I am not going to debate the merits of the accusations. Regardless of whether they are true or not, the problem remains.

The mere perception that something screwy is going on is a serious black mark on the Italian game.

Like a pus-filled zit, it can not be ignored.

Sometimes appearances are just as important as reality. If people lose faith in the honesty of the game, if people start to think (whether correctly or not) that Serie A is somehow scripted, they will lose interest.

They will stop buying tickets, pay-per-view subscriptions and replica shirts and those all-important revenues will dry up.

More importantly perhaps, if fans start to believe that Serie A has become like professional wrestling, scripted entertainment, the whole game will come crashing down.

There is a reason most kids dream of becoming a Rivaldo or an Alex Del Piero, rather than a Stone Cold Steve Austin: they know Rivaldo and Del Piero are for real, whereas Stone Cold is essentially an actor.

If too many people start to believe that Serie A is just a nine-month long feature film, it can't do the game any good.

This latest round of accusations stems from the refereeing in Juventus-Parma on Sunday. The bianconeri were hanging on to a 1-0 lead when Parma's Fabio Cannavaro headed the ball past Edwin Van der Sar in injury time.

It would have been the goal that might have turned the Serie A title race, because Lazio had just beaten Bologna 3-2 away. Drawing with Parma would have left both Lazio and Juventus level on points heading into the last game of the season.

But referee Massimo De Santis disallowed the goal. Juventus cruised to yet another victory and, more importantly, maintained its two point lead over Lazio.

On Sunday, Carlo Ancelotti's men visit Perugia, a team which has nothing left to play for and which many believe will roll over and play dead.

You might as well sew the scudetto on Juventus' shirts right now, say the cynics.

De Santis' decision appeared highly dubious in television replays. He claimed he saw a foul and whistled before Cannavaro's header. Video evidence proves the contrary, the whistle blew just as the ball was hitting the back of the net.

A dejected Cragnotti said: "I have spent more than US $180 million in the last two years and for what?"

"Only to find out that we can not win. This is the second season running that the Serie A championship is sending us a very precise and distinct signal: Lazio must not win."

"If this continues, perhaps Lazio should pull out of Serie A altogether. We'd be better off in European competition or playing in another country's league, with foreign referees. At least that way we would not have to deal with this infection at the heart of Italian football."

Referees make mistakes, they are human, nobody doubts that.

They are an integral part of the game and, provided they are in good faith, it's reasonable to assume that over the course of a season, good and bad decisions will balance each other out.

The problem here is that many believe the officials aren't in good faith. They don't think it's an issue of incompetence or personal errors, they maintain it's an issue of will.

Juventus is being willed to victory, they say.

And they cite evidence, dating back to twenty years ago.

Reams of videos, photo stills and personal testimony which they insist shows dubious decisions in Juventus' favor.

From Ramon Turone's "invisible goal" for Roma against Juventus twenty years ago to an unpunished challenge in the penalty box by Mark Iuliano against Ronaldo two seasons back, they claim the "Old Lady of Italian Soccer" has always been favored.

It may just be a lot of envy and sour grapes.

It may be congenital losers forever playing the part of the victims.

Or, there might be something more sinister afoot, though nobody has proved anything and, for the time being, we must assume no such conspiracy exists.

Either way, it's time for Serie A to shape up.

This suspicion, this poison is infecting the game.

Whether it tarnishes legitimate victories by Juventus or rigs the entire championship, it must be stopped.
===========

Forza Juve. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,168 Posts
You beat me to the punch excactly. At the time You posted this here, I posted it at the Lazio forum. Strange :).

I do think You leave out a few things. Your 5 points are not really adequate. Marcotti also says that something IS wrong.
We cannot look away from that point of the article. I agree with You and him that Juve isn't responsible (and shouldn't be held responsible), but we need to discuss the root of the problem just the same.

Ciao.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,209 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
funny coincidence :)

It's true that Marcotti believes that there may be a problem. Though I strongly do not agree, I do not doubt the possibility. What I can't stand is frustrated Lazio and Parma fans, including Mr. Cragnotti, taking it out on fans and Juventus itself. I think what Antonio Conte said following the match (juventus.com) sums it all up.
 
D

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
I find it very frustrating that everytime Juve get a decision going their way everybody cries matchfixing but when a decision goes against Juve the same people shut their mouths. Juve players and coaching staff have worked hard and deserve to be were they are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,215 Posts
Sorry to spoil the party, but perhaps you are unaware of one thing who spokes volumes about how people see the connection between Juventus and the refs.
Maybe you know the game Empoli-Juve (1997-98), during which a goal of an Empoli's defender was disallowed because according to the ref, the ball hadn't cressed the goal-line entirely. TV evidence proved that the ball was well more than a metre beyond the goal-line. So that an angry Empoli fan took the ref to the Court, who stated that "Referees are psychologically conditioned by Juventus" (Official statement by a Court of the Italian Republic). I don't know if the refs are bribed by Juve (honestly, I don't think they are), but the refs do a lot to make people think so.

FORZA LAZIO
 

·
First Place winner, June 2010 Photo Contest
Joined
·
37,661 Posts
I've already responded to this article at the Lazio forum (Glen's post),
so I will just summarize here.

1. This article does not tell us anything we didn't already know.

2. Corruption and bribery is part of everyday life, so why is it
so difficult to accept the possibility that this exists in football to.

Futhermore I would like to refer you to the article in yesterdays
Corriere della Sera (page 25) about 5 incidents this season in which
Juve had favorable decisions by referees.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,168 Posts
Yes Boyo; I'm aware of that article just as I'm aware of the one from Gazzetta online yesterday looking up the time both Juve and Lazio has been favoured this season. I don't know how they estimate "favoured" but I would say that I could find more than 5 incidents for both teams which could have meant a goal in each direction.
I've stated over and over these last two days that I KNOW Juve has been treated better than You have, but don't forget that the real problem has been that You've had more calls AGAINST. Every team can find episodes in which the other team should have had a penalty for instance.

Aquila; I know about that court hearing as well, and it doens't spoil any party (would You say that was evidence Juve was in the wrong, because if that's the case we disagree).
Why are You arguing that ? I said both here and at the Lazio forum that there IS a problem. You said Yourself that You didn't think Juventus were to blaim for this, so we're in complete agreement actually.
That this ref. said that he/refs in general were psycologically conditioned by Juve- that's not Juve's fault directly. That's what it means to be the biggets team in Italian footabll history. So why is that an argument against the points I've made (which support Laialis theory that SOMETHING is wrong) ?
There's no rule telling You that You have to disagree with me even when I support some of Your opinions :).

Ciao.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,292 Posts
"The league is regular in my opinion, and the team able to make more points will reach the top of the standing. Referees always did some mistake, and the same thing happens to the players. To point out controversies isn't necessary. In this way there is the danger to debate about the fairness of the referee, and I can assure I never thought it could be lack of fair in the officials' decisions. I wouldn't play soccer otherwise!"
Lilian Thuram.

...So maybe was a foul maybe not...
but its done, nothing can do now...
Juventus deserves the scudetto, they are the most regular team in the Serie A rigth now.
And if Lazio spend Millions in their team and they not win the scudetto,is their problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If some referee not allow a goal against Juve... is not our fault!!!!!!,... HE IS JUST A HUMAN, HUMAN MAKE MISTAKES!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26,731 Posts
Especto,when you post quotes,put them all together! this was just not straight to put a few of Thuram's quotes.The gives the wroing impression.BESIDES,Thuram never denies there was a foul,cant you read what he sais?

You can find the full article at the Parma forum.

------------------
The sun will rise again...and it will be...GIALLOBLU!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,292 Posts
Amoroso, I'm not saying there was a foul( In fact i don't see any !!), what i'm trying to point whit the Quote of Thuram is that, the referee make a mistake...!!! Point!!
That don't give some persons the right to say that IF Juventus win the scudetto, we still it or don't deserve it!!!
If Juventus win the scudetto is becouse we have a strong defence, a regular team and becouse we deserve it !!!!!!!! and not for some MISTAKE( if there was one!!) from a referee.
Is not Juve's fault that Lazio spend Millions In a new team!!!!!!!
Is not our fault that the referee gave a fault, BEFORE THE BALL TOUCH THE NET!
That's why a put that part of the Thuram speech, becouse he say something very important, a referee is a human, like the players!! and they make mistakes!!! and they don't have a TV to watch the play in slow motion!!!.
Sorry if you don't get my point...
And sorry about my English
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top