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Which team was better

  • Zagallo's 1998

    Votes: 10 41.7%
  • Felipao's 2002

    Votes: 14 58.3%
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Legend
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A question

I have this question at the back of my mind for quite some time now: in your opinion and view, do you consider the 1998 Brasil team or the 2002 team better? By better i mean, which team was the more complete? which team had the more depth? which team was the most feared?

Obviously i'm not talking about comparing these 2 teams based on their achievements, but based on their absolute pure value and the quality of the players composing them.

My choice is the 1998 team was more complete, stronger and had more depth. Plus Ronaldo was at his best back then, which is not the case now and that's a significant factor.

So, please let me know what you think.:)

Ze, can you make this a poll as it may be better suited for a poll?
Obrigado!:)
 

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the 2002 team is better for two major reasons: rivaldo up front instead of in midfield; team unity!

the 1998 team had a lot of internal problems, like players fighting on the pitch and in the locker. and edmundo! (anywhere he goes, problems.) the 1998 defense was awful, but the 2002 defense (despite a few bad moves) was pretty solid.

the big difference for me, though, was rivaldo. he showed in this tournament that he wanted to win it more than anything in the world. and having him up front with ronaldo (instead of an old bebeto) was magic.

the 2002 team would beat the 1998 team 3x1.
 

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2002 team...no doubt about it...This team is pretty much perfect if everyone plays up to potential...I mean, at the end stages, i dont know if any other team played defense as well as brazil....even roberto carlos played defense in the final...also, team unity...1998 was full of superstars trying to outshine each other...This year is much much better...hopefully 2006 will be better...I mean, lets compare positions....


GK - Taffarel vs. Marcos (marcos...he was freakin awesome)

DB - Cafu, RC exluded..Emdilson, Lucio, Roque vs. Jr. Baiano, Aldair (lucio and co...they proved it in the later stages)

DM - Dunga, C. Sampaio vs. Gilberto, Kleberson (Dunga was too old and Sampaio is a waste...Gilberto played consistently, and Kleberson came on with a fury...both of them also provided much more balls to skilled players).


Mid - Leonardo, Rivaldo vs. Ronaldinho (Rivaldo was good...but he dribbled too much...no tempo at all in 1998...Ronaldinho was awesome most of the time)


Forwards - Ronaldo, Rivaldo vs. Ronaldo, Bebeto (do you even want to compare this??...True ronaldo was in better physical form, but this year, he was absolutely deadly...and Rivaldo was the player of the WC if you ask me).



No question at all....That french team would have looked like fools against this team...all the scores came on defensive mistakes in 1998..Due to felipao, that was cleaned up after the first round...also, did anyone notice...Emdilson plays much much better in the middle...and not chasing guys around...so, felipao made Lucio and Roque Jr. chase people and put Emdilson in the middle....and Lucio and Emdilson are magnificent bring up balls on attack)...Defense in the air was also tremendous..
 

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You won't be able to find your answer if you compare linueps either because it's the simple word of unity like Falcao mentioned a few post earlier. I don't wanna sound like a drama queen but Big Phil has made an amazing family out of the Selecao and it worked. It's been asked by the players and they say that's our secret weapon so I guess that's true. :cool:

The Brazilian people demanded that we win this Penta and that's exactly what we delivered, we're just awesome under pressure! :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
To me, i find the 98 one stronger for several reasons. First of all, it had a more reliable and solid back four than this year. Lucio, Edmilson and Roque Junior have been solid but they made all of us have some heart attack at several occasions. In 98, the defence was more solid and didn't show the same signs of nervosity as they did this year. Also, Taffarel is a bigger and better keeper than Marcos can ever dream of becoming. Don[t get me wrong: Marcos has been amazing this year, but Taffarel was among the very best keepers in the world! Junior Baiano and Aldair are more of garantee than this shaky Roque Junior and this clown of Lucio.

In midfield, even tough Kleberson and Gilberto Silva have been great this year, none of them can match the leadership or presence of a Dunga, the real boss of the Brasil of 98 with his strong character and crucial role of being the regulator of the team.
Also the 98 team had more depth and class than this one. Just take a look the roster and you'll see it blatant.

Another fact that weighs in favor of the 98 team is that they played some marvelous games against some very good teams. ( The game against Morocco was a true demonstration, the game against Denmark was a highlight and the 1/2 final against Holland was another memorable game. This year, Brasil didn't play against any great teams except maybe England. With all honesty, no one can say that Belgium or Turkey or evn Germany can be considered among the top teams in the world. They are good teams, but they took advantage of the misfortune of the superpowers and the relative easiness of their schedule.

Finally, and that's a big factor, Ronaldo. In 98 he was BIG! Now, he just came back from a 2 years absence. This Ronaldo is probably at 50-60% of his potential, whereas the 98 Ronaldo was probably at around 80-90% of his abilities. The 98 team had more flair and looked more "brasilian" than this one, mainly in their style. Despite a strong european inclination, the 98 team stilll was able to emulate some fabulous moves, some great goals and produce some truly Brasilian football at the opposite of this year's team. This year's team played good, but never did they leave the fans with their mouths wide open due to the sheer beauty of their plays, except sporadically in the game against Costa Rica.

All in all, that's why i believe th 98 team to be stronger, better and with more depth and class than the current one. The 98 team was in perfect line with the other great brasilian teams of the past due to their style whereas this year's team looked like more like the 94 team, more cynical, more "european" with less flair and brasilian touch. If we could put the 98 team in this year's WC, they would have won easily all their games with a large margin while producing lots of spectacle whereas if we put the current team in the 98 WC, they would have struggled get past the 2nd round or at best the 1/4 finals as overall, teams and the level of play in 98 was higher and more spectacular. Just a personal observation.;)
 

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What are you talking about, Payman? The only good point that you had in that post was about Ronaldo not being 100%. First let's start with that thing you said about the defense is a pure joke, were you clowning around there? If you remember correctly we conceeded 11 goals in 7 games at World Cup 98 and this time around we got 4 goals in 7 games. I think the stats speak for themselves, don't you think? Funny you mentioned such a loser like Junior Baiano. God! that guy was just so damn horrible, how can you even remember him besides his costly mistakes? :rolleyes:

As for the DMC, It's not even that much in favor of Dunga because that wasn't his prime to begin with. Gilberto Silva and Kleberson both couldn't have been better so i've got no idea why you dare critisize them once again.

Turkey, Costa Rica, China, Belgium, Turkey again, England, Germany isn't a picnic anyway so quit taking away credit on the victory. Germany were obviously better then 30 countries so how can you not call them a big team? Turkey and England were having excellent World Cups untill we had to play them. Hell, England & Germany had some of the best defenses in the WC.

In conclusion, you pretty much made no sense in that post whatsoever.
 

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If you compare the organization of both teams i believe that the 98 team was better organized than the 2002 team. It was not Felipao's fault, after all he din't have much time to train this team, and he had to basically build the team whne the competition was underway.

If you go by talent, our defense in 202 was better than in 98. ALdair was aging already and had been far gone from his best years and Junior Baiano was his usual self...... a clown, and a pathetic one as always:eek:

NOw the biggest difference is the midfield. We had 4 class acts in midfield in 98, however Rivaldo never passed the ball to Ronaldo back then, something he did in 2002 (at least in the knowck out stage) . Whil this midfield that we had in this world cup, Gilberto Silva had to take much of the burden and he was brilliant at it. But if you compare Gilberto Silva and Cesar Sampaio you will notice that their talent is almost the same!;) Who is better Cesar Sampaio or Gilberto Silva...... that is one of the toughest footballing questions EVER!. But then you had Leonardo and DUNGA...the great leader, the inspirational force behind the team....when he played the team played with heart, when he was absent those lazy buggers din't do nothing!


If Zagallo had picked the team better it would be easy to choose the 98 team, but as he picked Bebeto who was way passed his best , and made his career not be so great as it should have been, the 2002 team can claim that they were better than the 98 team. But for my pick, before any tournament, i wouuld prefer the 98 set up to the 2002 set up. But the biggest reason would be because in 98 we played 442 instead of 343. I prefer 442 to any style of play!;) :cool:
 

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This Year's Team

Taffarel was better than Marcos, but in 2002 Rivaldo was better positioned on the team. We had Dunga in '98, but in 2002 we had a mature Roberto Carlos - and a better one for it. It's all arguable. But I think the 2002 team is better because of the unity. Edmundo was a problem but he wasn't the only one, there was a game when Bebeto and Dunga almost traded punches in '98.

Tactically Zagallo had a more carefully-trained squad, because he had worked on it for four years. Scolari barely had a year - he had the immediate task of qualifying, then came the Copa America when most players weren't available due to the informal 'boycott' that took place. So it's not really fair to compare the teams in terms of elaboration - but I actually think Scolari built a more balanced and competitive team. And I think the decisive factor in this competitiveness was unity.

You see, it's widely-known in Brazil that Scolari's biggest talent (but certainly one of many) is his capacity to motivate players to give 150% and to make a team 'gel' like a family. He always does that: When hired to run a club team, as soon as he gets to know the players he transfer lists the potential 'bad eggs' and 'troublemakers', with little regard to these players' talent: He want guys who will add to the team in terms of morale, motivation or leadership. He frequently steps on people's toes with his style, but that's how he works (most of the media really doesn't like him). The fact is, it works: His players are always motivated to the point of warfare, and his teams are always ready to run their lungs out for the common purpose.

Zagallo, on the other hand, is a tactician, a specialist in team strategy who plays chess with the players. He and Big Phil have some traits in common, but their teams play in distinct fashions: Zagallo's teams are well-rehearsed performers, while Scolari's teams resemble a cloud of bees flying across the air, attacking and retreating together, everyone defending everyone, like a big family. It's a psychological thing that Felipao does very well.

Considering the little amound of time we would have to prepare the team, this 'specialty' was the reason I was optimistic when Scolari was hired last year: I knew he was the right man for the job, a manager who could make the players run more than they usually would. So our team would be able to overcome the little training time with a LOT of dedication. And it worked! :D Big Phil managed to create an excellent squad, where everyone gave their blood and sweat all the time. So the eventual shortcomings were covered by the collective extra effort: if someone lost the ball, two other guys would be there to cover because that's how the team played. :proud:

And this fighting spirit, mixed with a good system that privileged our stars' best characteristics - Cafu and Roberto with minimum defensive duties, Rivaldo and Ronaldinho Gaucho free to trade places, Edmilson as an advanced sweeper - is what makes this team superior to the '98 team. I actually think that this year's Brazil would have whupped France's arse in 1998. :cool:
 

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san_siro_1, i agree with you that 98 played more beautiful football than 2002 for most of the time. but there's one thing most people didn't seem to notice about this 2002 team: every time it had to player better, it did.

look at what happened in games against turkey, belgium, england, germany: against all those teams, brazil started the match looking just ok, but not great. but after getting a feel for the game and understanding the opponent, brazil turned on the jets and took control of the game: in the first game against turkey, we were shocked 1x0 at halftime but came out on fire in the second half. same thing happened against belgium, turkey in the semifinal, germany in the final. after about 45 minutes, the 2002 team was able to do the math and figure out exactly what it had to do to win, and it had the talent and the discipline and the team quality do win.

but in 1998, we couldn't do that. we had trouble figuring teams out, scoring late, putting teams away, winning matches. look at how we lost to norway as the perfect example: we were leading 1x0 after 79 minutes. all we had to do was do what brazil does best: dribble the ball around and keep possession for 11 minutes. but we gave up two stupid goals and lost 2x1. same thing in the semifinal against holland, when we were five minutes from the final: emerson lost the ball on a bad clearance and kluivert scored the tying goal.

the big difference between 98 and 2002 is not something we can measure or write down on paper. it's not individual players or tactics. it's team UNITY. in 98, we won matches because individually our players were better than the other team's most of the time. but in 2002 we won because we were a great UNIT, a great TEAM. we always knew what we had to do to win a game, and we were able to do it.

i don't have any doubt: the 2002 team would find a way to beat 98.
 

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:eek:

I won't get into that debate about which team is the best... It's nonsense and pure biasm ; just a simple fact:
2002's Brazil is World Champ
1998's Brazil is not.

Let me explain... if the Brasileiros find out that the 98's team was better, it also means that 98's France was stronger than their current 2002' team... and they WILL NEVER ADMIT THAT... (I don't say that 98France is better than 2002Brazil; i am just meaning that they won't admit another country to be better than theirs)

If Brazil had won both tournament (98 and 2002) ; it wouldn't be biased... BUT that is not the case...

This poll is simply too biased (from Brazilians at least) to be taken seriously.

No offense, but even without looking at result of the poll, I am sure that all the Brazilians on xtratime have voted 2002. Just a guess...
 

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brasil 98 was better than france 98? really? when did we decide that?

brasil 98 was not that good. the team had a lot of problems on and off the field. you cannot win a world cup if you don't like your teammates and fight with them before, during and after the game. brazil proved that in 98.
 

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hypno,

France 98 better than Brazil 98?? I doubt dude! Put us in a neutral stadium with a fit Ronaldo and a team that is concious of what is happening, instead of not knowing what can happen to the biggest star of the team before the game!

Remeber, your attack you had Guivarch....the worst attack to ever win a world cup!:eek: :(

and you guys are the worst team to ever defend a cup also!:eek: :tongue: ;)

Also if you rad my post, i would vote on 98 if i had to pick which line up i would get before the cup started!
 

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I disagree, Ze. France was better than Brazil in '98, they had the 'unity' we talked about Brazil 2002 having, We didn't have that sense of 'team' - Dunga, Taffarel and the other veterans were in one group, Edmundo and Junior Baiano were in another, there were all these little 'crowds' that the players stuck to. Zagallo's leadership and experience forged the team, but the players were overconfident - we had a powerful team(we can't argue that) and IMO they thought things would happen naturally.

France on the other hand, had the 'home team' factor going for them, not to mention that their team was excellent - Thuram kicked arse, Desailly was solid, Lizarazu was always delivering, Deschamps led the midfield. Zidane was very good too, but I never thought he was the best player of the Cup. For me, France's best was Thuram, and Ronaldo was the best player of the World Cup. :cool: We must also humbly acknowledge that Aimeé Jacquet demolished Zagallo's tactics.

Could things be different if Ronaldo was 100% fit? Hell, yeah. We did have a strong enough team to win that game. And in football, the best team doesn't always win, as we all know. But France was the better team. :wth: :sigh: :eyepatch:

Although I still think Barthez is a vastly overrated, [email protected] goalie... :rollani: :D

And Brazil 2002 would thrash France. :smileani:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Barthez overrated? :eek:
Come on!Just because he had a way below par first half of the season doesn't make him a lousy keeper. Every player, every keeper has a bad period and this was Barthez's bad period of his whole career. He has retrieved his serenity and has been solid and quite reliable if you ask me. Also, anyone who watched the France's games in this WC, would have realized and noticed he was one of the best players of our team and he saved us a lot of times in all 3 matches.

Finally, i'd like to end this Barthez discussion by quoting what Gigi Buffon, the one believed to be one of the absolute best keepers of the world, if not the best said about Barthez, in the May 10th edition of Guarino Sportivo, a weekly italian sport mag: "Barthez, to me is the best keeper of the world as he has something special that makes him stand above all the rest."!:eek:

Now, that coming from the one considered to be the best keeper of the world that means something and adds weighs to this claim. Barthez might not be the best keper in the world currently, but he is damn sure among the top in the world. Anyone wrongly bashing him is not being fair nor honest to him. :):tongue:

As to your last sentence Garrincha, i am still not convinced if this Brasil "would trash France" nor if this Brasil is the best team in the world currently. As i said clearly on the other thread, yes Brasil are the worthy champion of the last WC, and yes they deserve their title, given the way the WC went, but i do have strong doubts as to this Brasil team being the best team in the world. Also, the real France team at full strength and on top of their game physically would not lose against this Brasil :) I can guarantee you that amigao!:)

I just hope that once we get our new coach, our two countries will set a friendly game, preferably somewhere in Brasil, say like at Maracana or at the Murumbi. I would love to see that and i wouldn't be surprised at all to see the team in blue walking out of the field victoriously...:):tongue:

Peace amigaos.:)
 

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San Siro,
The best team of the world is BRASIL. France was the best, now they have an aging team that can't find themselves..as is said, stop dreaming come back to reality, just as we Brazilians had to deal with for 4 years!

This attack is better than ANY WORLD TEAM ATTACK OF THE WORLD:

Ronaldinho Gaucho Rivaldo

Ronaldo Romario


Who can stop this?? NO ONE..... Kahn could not stop with the 3 R's imagine witht he 4:eek: ;)

Garrincha, i'm looking at the set up more than unity. UNity not always wins trophies. Palmeiras won a bunch of trophies with probably the most troubled sucessful group in world football. And Corinthias won everything with 3 GROUPS fighting between themsleves!:eek: ;)

Edilson always says that unity is not the most important, but the desire to win is. THat day France had more than us, but in a normal scenario and in a neutral place with no sudden faintings or anything like that, the Brazil team would have everything to beat France. On the day tehy won..they are the champs...congrats to them


Now the rulers of football is us.... 3 straight world cup finals, while France has not qualified to onw since 1986!:eek: :eek: Let's see if they can go to the next one!;) :D :D :D :D (san siro..this is too irritate you:tongue: ;) :D :D :D But nevertheless....it is a FACT;) :howler: :howler:
 

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Payman when are you gonna stop the rubbish? you dare say France on 'top of their game' would have beat Brazil this year but can you do me a favor and stop fantasizing? France sucked hands down! You guys didn't score a single goal in the World Cup and right now have no real reason to be comparing a team who won no games in their WC campaign to the champions, alright?

Anyways, talking about being on top of our games besides the fact that Ronaldo wasn't 100% for the WC finals in 1998, Romario was out on a last minute injuries and so was a very on-form Juninho Paulista. Save the drama buddy!
 

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Patrick said:
Payman when are you gonna stop the rubbish? you dare say France on 'top of their game' would have beat Brazil this year but can you do me a favor and stop fantasizing? France sucked hands down! You guys didn't score a single goal in the World Cup and right now have no real reason to be comparing a team who won no games in their WC campaign to the champions, alright?

Anyways, talking about being on top of our games besides the fact that Ronaldo wasn't 100% for the WC finals in 1998, Romario was out on a last minute injuries and so was a very on-form Juninho Paulista. Save the drama buddy!

san siro,

put this in your head...it will save you headaches!;) :cool: :D
 

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The Team That Didn't Score ONCE Against the World Champions... hmmm... who would win?

Patrick said:
Payman when are you gonna stop the rubbish? you dare say France on 'top of their game' would have beat Brazil this year but can you do me a favor and stop fantasizing? France sucked hands down! You guys didn't score a single goal in the World Cup and right now have no real reason to be comparing a team who won no games in their WC campaign to the champions, alright?

Anyways, talking about being on top of our games besides the fact that Ronaldo wasn't 100% for the WC finals in 1998, Romario was out on a last minute injuries and so was a very on-form Juninho Paulista. Save the drama buddy!
Nothing else to add, I just thought San_Siro needed to read this again. :D :dielaugh: :howler: :party:
 
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