[BL - matchday 18] Bayer Leverkusen vs BVB - Xtratime Community
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old January 27th, 2015, 10:05 Thread Starter
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[BL - matchday 18] Bayer Leverkusen vs BVB

Saturday, 31.01.2015
kickoff: 18:30

vs

Let's get it on!

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Last edited by Michinho; January 27th, 2015 at 11:01.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old January 27th, 2015, 12:07 Thread Starter
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i expect a line-up like this

---------Weidenfeller
Pisczek--Subotic-Hummels-Schmelzer
---------Sahin---Kirch
------------Gündogan
---Kampl---------------Reus
------------Immobile

might be very offensive but Kampl and Reus had a promising chemistry in the preseason games and it might be just to early for Kuba to start this one. Still have hopes that Klopp trusts more in Immobile and gives him some confidence by letting him start the next 3-4 matches.

rest of the line-up should be clear. Mitch still at the Asia Cup. Durm, Socratis, Kehl, Bender, Großkreutz injured.

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old January 28th, 2015, 08:30 Thread Starter
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we had a special guest in one of the last training sessions. and btw it is not Barrack Obama...



Mohamed Zidan

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old January 29th, 2015, 07:46 Thread Starter
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will be interesting to see how Schmelzer can cope with the speed and agility of Bellarabi on Saturday.

hopefully Son wont play as he always seems to be extra motivated against us and scored each game (even with HSV :eekani: ) ah wait, is he still at the Asia Cup?! excellent

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Last edited by Michinho; January 29th, 2015 at 08:39.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2015, 05:42 Thread Starter
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Apart from the injured Sven Bender, Sebastian Kehl and Erik Durm, Borussia Dortmund will also have to do without Jakub Blaszczykowski for the first competitive match of 2015 at Bayer Leverkusen, while Ilkay Gündogan is a doubt for Saturday’s Bundesliga clash.


“We don’t want to create any pressure,“ said Jürgen Klopp on Saturday, two days before the Leverkusen match, about his midfield enforcer Ilkay Gündogan who was taken off for precautionary reasons (thigh) against Düsseldorf last Saturday, and still hasn’t returned to full training yet. “He will only be considered if he returns to training by tomorrow,” said Klopp on Gündogan’s chances to play against Bayer. But the BVB coach also said: “He’s a doubt against Leverkusen, but certain to return against Augsburg.”
***
source: bvb.com


Jakub Blaszczykowski out with a virus, while Shinji and PEA back from Asia Cup.

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2015, 19:10
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Missing players aside, I want the team to win tomorrow and show us all that the first half of the season was just a fluke. They better win otherwise I will seriously wonder what was the point of training so much for the past 3 weeks. We all know what this team is capable of when they play to their full potential, when they are injury free and properly set up. If everything goes right, Dortmund wins this 2-1.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2015, 19:46
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To be honest it would be a big upset if Dortmund can win this one in Leverkusen.

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2015, 21:11
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To be honest it would be a big upset if Dortmund can win this one in Leverkusen.
Why would it be a big upset? They won in Leverkusen the past 3 seasons and they have overall a better team.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2015, 21:27
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One look at the table tells the truth. I have not seen anything in Dortmund's pre-season that makes me think they improved drastically. And therefore they are not the better team at the moment.

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2015, 21:46
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One look at the table tells the truth. I have not seen anything in Dortmund's pre-season that makes me think they improved drastically. And therefore they are not the better team at the moment.
Leverkusen aren't exactly worldbeaters themselves so I wouldn't be so confident about Dortmund losing this game.

Also I don't know what pre-season you were watching but Dortmund won all their preparation games since the end of the first half of the season except for the game against Fortuna which ended in a draw.

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2015, 22:13
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Form aside, I don't see it as a surprise if BVB win this game. On their day they are a better team than Leverkusen but yes, if you do consider the fact that Dortmund have rarely had 'their day' throughout this season, then it's understandable as to why it would be perceived a surprise as such.

Hearing Gundogan is a doubt for this game now too, would probably mean Ginter or even Hummels plays in the pivot role next to Nuri if he doesn't make it. Otherwise I expect this lineup:

Weidenfeller
Piszczek - Sokratis - Hummels - Schmelzer
Gundogan - Sahin
Mkhitaryan - Kampl - Reus
Immobile

Might be a bit too offensive, but not much choice considering the position the team is in right now. Don't really have too many hopes regarding the league anymore, top 4 chances are gone imo. Main thing is to build confidence now ahead of the cup games, a win here would be great.

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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old January 30th, 2015, 22:38
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Also I don't know what pre-season you were watching but Dortmund won all their preparation games since the end of the first half of the season except for the game against Fortuna which ended in a draw.
I very much doubt you have seen those unlike me who actually did. But there is no point in arguing about this. Tomorrow will tell the truth. Leverkusen is definitely better than any of the weak teams Dortmund barely won 1-0 against so far this year. But friendlies are friendlies, so I don't value them very much anyway, even if Dortmund had won them convincingly (although that would make me less comfortable in thinking Leverkusen is the favourite tomorrow at least).

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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old January 31st, 2015, 05:34
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I very much doubt you have seen those unlike me who actually did. But there is no point in arguing about this. Tomorrow will tell the truth. Leverkusen is definitely better than any of the weak teams Dortmund barely won 1-0 against so far this year. But friendlies are friendlies, so I don't value them very much anyway, even if Dortmund had won them convincingly (although that would make me less comfortable in thinking Leverkusen is the favourite tomorrow at least).
If you've seen them then your comment about Dortmund not being impressive in pre-season doesn't make any sense. They played something like 5 games, granted against mostly weak opponents, but they didn't loose a single one of those games so you can't say they haven't been good. Like I said, don't overrate Leverkusen too much. We're talking about a team that often chokes in laughable fashion in both the Bundesliga and the CL. If Leverkusen had as many injury problems as Dortmund have had so far this season they would be in the bottom half of the table and maybe even fighting for relegation.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old February 1st, 2015, 01:57
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Finished 0-0.

Didn't get to see the whole game, but saw enough to easily say that nothing has changed on the offensive end in the last six weeks. The team is still very disorganized in attack and doesn't even look recognizable, why is the plan now to just hoof the ball up the pitch and hope it leads to something? This is nothing like the football we saw in the past few seasons from this team.

Klopp has learned nothing from the first half of the season. Still making puzzling substitutions (moving Sokratis to RB instead of KG? ), playing players who are out of form and don't deserve it (Again, KG ahem), and instructing the team to play this nonsensical, impatient style of football which is clearly leading nowhere.

Like I said before, you can dig up all the excuses you want for the results being the way they are, but Klopp has a lot of blame to take for it too and it amazes me how no one is pressuring him despite everything that's happened. Honestly at this point I just hope the team stays up and Klopp leaves with his dignity still intact before things get worse (and they very well could, look what he did to Mainz in the past).

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old February 1st, 2015, 06:40
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Klopp took Dortmund to domestic and even European glory to some extent. I don't agree with everyone he does but the guy is a legend and he has proven his worth numerous times already in Germany and in Europe. He is one of the most underrated coaches in the world, it would be a travesty to get rid of him. Besides, that won't happen. The Dortmund board clearly has a long-term plan, it isn't in the club's policy to make drastic changes all of a sudden when results aren't there.

The real problem with football nowadays are impatient fans wanting to get rid of managers too quickly, thinking it will fix everything and being quick to blame them when things aren't going well instead of blaming the players (*cough* Mkhitaryan *cough*) and looking at other crucial factors.
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old February 1st, 2015, 15:55
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Once again, you prove that you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Klopp should be respected and remembered for everything he did in the past, but that doesn't mean he is prone to criticism for what he has been doing this year. The reality is that the team is bottom of the league and he keeps playing hacks like KG/Kehl when they have no right to be in the team with the way they've been playing - he hasn't changed anything and has become more stubborn than ever this year. Seeing as he did the same thing at Mainz, it doesn't surprise me. He just seems like a one trick pony whose trick has been exposed by now at Dortmund.

Squawka stats for this game showed that Dortmund had just a 46% percentage of successful passes yesterday. With players like Reus, Kampl, and Gundogan in the team, it is inexcusable to be so disorganized and do so poor offensively with that kind of talent.

The team is at the bottom of the league after half a season, I don't see how that's called being impatient when the manager is playing a part in this whole thing, even if other factors have affected the situation as well. There was an injury crisis last year too and the team finished 2nd, so it's not a good enough excuse for him to be bottom now this year either.

One more thing, he is not one of the most underrated coaches. He is one of the most overrated, if anything. His tactical abilities are very limited and he doesn't adapt well to different situations. He helped build Dortmund to the level they have been in the last few years, which everyone is grateful for, but now it's clear with the expectations and standards at the club now, Dortmund are expected to finish in the top 4 regularly (as they should, with such players). It's a result of all the work he and the board have done, but now as it's time to go to the next level as a club, they are all failing at it and quite miserably too in the league. Klopp & Watzke built this team from the ground up and whilst BVB grew during the past few years, they did not and aren't good enough to take this club to the next level as far as I'm concerned. The results support that claim.

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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old February 1st, 2015, 16:32
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Ok I'm done. I wonder how much longer we'll wait before you start supporting another club like you always do. On which bandwagon will you jump next?
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old February 1st, 2015, 17:07
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Typical Tarik reply. Someone has an opinion different to his and expects more from the team he supports (when he doesn't even support anyone, lol) and he gets upset so he decides to make things personal. Would be funny if it wasn't for it coming from the most ridiculed poster on the forum. :dielaugh:

I've been supporting Barca since you were in primary school and whilst I'll admit that BVB's success a few years ago got me into the team, I always had a soft spot for them and I don't actually give up on them just because they're bottom of the league. I'm not deluded to think that Klopp has no share of the blame to take for it either, unlike you. It's always one extreme or another when it comes to you, try being more reasonable sometimes and not getting so emotional when someone disagrees with your opinions.

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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old February 1st, 2015, 17:37
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Don't give me your BS advice, I am more than capable of supporting a team without being extreme about it. That's what differentiates me from other football fans.

Nope, I'm just not accepting the constant BS about a coach being the only and main person to blame when results aren't there. I would know, I've been a coach myself and it's an environment I know quite well. You want to get rid of Klopp and then when a new manager comes in and the situation remains the same you will want to get him of him too and it will become a never ending circle. Fortunately enough, your opinion doesn't matter to the Dortmund board of directors and to Watzke.

You are also completely ommitting the fantastic record that this team has in this CL this season AND has had in the past 2 seasons. Is Klopp also to "blame" for that? Why not take a look at the weak links in the team like Mkhitaryan and blame him instead for missing so many sitters in the first half of the season? Why not consider that maybe Reus' numerous injuries have had a bad effect on his form? Why not consider the fact that Immobile hasn't nearly been as good for Dortmund so far as he has been for Torino? Why not consider the fact that players like Schmelzer suck? Why not consider the fact that Kagawa is nowhere near as good as he was prior to his move to United? Why not consider the fact that Gundogan is still trying to find his old form? Why not consider that the team has been without a key figure in Kuba? Only a complete clueless fool would blame the current situation solely and mainly on Klopp.
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2015, 06:18
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Don't give me your BS advice, I am more than capable of supporting a team without being extreme about it. That's what differentiates me from other football fans.
You may or may not be, but history up to now hasn't really shown that to be the case. With you it always seem to be either pushing one extreme opinion or another, whilst contradicting yourself several times.

As for the rest of your post, I seriously doubt now whether you've been reading anything I've written on here since the season started. It sure seems like it. You're putting words into my mouth saying that I am blaming only Klopp for the situation the team is in right now, I have stated many times before the list of reasons for why this team is in such a funk right now (don't really have to repeat them, there's a forum archive to look through if you wish) but again, if we recall last season when the team had a bad injury crisis even then, they still finished 2nd in the league. It's arguable that the injury crisis and the form of some players is worse this year, but for me it's just not enough to excuse being bottom of the league after half a season, especially when a lot of Klopp's in-game tactics have been very questionable since the first match. He deserves a ton of credit for everything he did in the past, but he also deserves at least some share of the criticism for what is happening now. I think that's fair, he isn't immune to any blame for the team being bottom right now when we both know the potential is much bigger than the results are showing.

And you really don't know me if you think I am one of those types that want a coach gone when results aren't good and the same for the next and so on. For me results are an important part of the business, but I pay more attention to process when it comes to a team. If there are clear signs and gradual improvements made, then results will follow eventually. That is how football works. However, this team still looks shambolically disorganized offensively and looks a shadow of the team even 8 months ago when it isn't even THAT strong then, let alone 2-3 years ago. A 46% pass success rate with the players that played this game is terrible, from whatever angle you look at it. This coming after a winter break where the team has had time to evaluate things and fix some of the issues only to look the exact same as they did before is inexcusable and I don't see how results are expected to come if things continue the way they have been going so far.

Of course, I'm not an impatient person. Never was when it came to managers (as I hope to become one myself at this level someday, God willing) as I am very sympathetic towards the lack of support they get while they're in the job and everything isn't running smoothly.I still hope Klopp turns things around somehow and stays at the club as he is generally the best guy Dortmund could have. There is still time to somewhat repair things and leave a strong sign for the future, but up to now I am not convinced that this will happen and won't be until the team has a clear direction again. Maybe injuries have disrupted that a lot, I'm still not convinced it's the root to the poor style of play we've played, but now that everyone is back there are no more excuses to cling onto. We will see now where this ship is truly headed under Klopp.

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