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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old January 1st, 2010, 23:06 Thread Starter
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Why is China so hopeless?

All the big clubs have some kind of marketing deal in China. Ajax even has something involving a soccer school there but regardless of this and big Arie Haan's presence in the country still nothing seems to have improved.

Other than Sun Jihai, no one else has really made it abroad. You'd have thought that the generation after him would become better but that doesn't seem to have been the case.

PSV have had their disappointments while Dong's been doing not much for Man U reserves for like ages.

The dude at Charlton and now Celtic's been doing ok but that's about it.

Also on the club front, no real big impacts in the ACL.
So what's up?


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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old January 1st, 2010, 23:07
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What about Li Tie?
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old January 2nd, 2010, 08:39
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I think it's due to corruption there. China has all what it takes to supreme in many kind of things even sports. But football wise, I think something has held them to grow into next level. Even in international level, China has failed to dominate and failed too many times in Asian competition. I never see Chinese team in AFC CL quarter final, let alone the Asian Cup.

Sun Jihai succeeded in Man City because he helped the team to promote from First Division to Premier League when the team still playing with the likes of Dunne, Wanchope and Distin in the team. But once it was taken over by billionaires, he only served as benchwarmer.

Li Tie was even unluckier, the guy performed well for Everton, then got injured and benchwarmer for his life there.

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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old January 2nd, 2010, 10:56
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I've posted this before but thought if anyone missed it, it might bare reading in this thread.

China leaders seek revamp of ‘Beautiful Game’

“Football – one of China’s most popular sports – is in the doldrums, and the nation’s top leaders have, in an unusual move, intervened to improve its standard in the country.”

Last week the President of the People’s Republic of China had finally spoken:
“Chinese football needs to continue to carry forward the ‘Zhixing Style’.”
President Hu Jintao was referring to star player of the 70s Rong Zhihang.

Before that Vice- President Xi Jinping said, while visiting Germany, that after the Beijing Olympics “China has made a decision to improve football talent. Since we could obtain gold medals in many sports, we believe we can make it in football if we are determined to improve it. But the process will be long.”

Politburo member Liu Yandong has also said that President Hu was very concerned about football in China, and that there is a need to find out what is impeding the development of the sport.

*

Chinese soccer association supports clampdown on gambling, match-fixing

www.chinaview.cn 2009-11-07 12:43:03

BEIJING, Nov. 7 (Xinhua) -- China's soccer governing body has expressed its full support for a recent nationwide crackdown launched by police on gambling on professional matches.

"Gambling and match-fixing are severe violations of Chinese laws and also a kind of cancer that damages soccer. We should resolutely stamp them out in the sport," the Chinese Football Association (CFA) said in a statement on its website Friday night.

"The CFA has always firmly opposed footballers' behaviors that breach laws or go against sportsmanship. We completely support the crackdown on match-fixing and gambling by relevant government departments," it added.

Cui Dalin, deputy minister of China's State General Administration of Sport, warned players this week that they could be banned for life if being caught gambling or match-fixing.

A large-scale probe into possible organized gambling and match-fixing on professional matches have hit the headlines of many newspapers as well as websites since the beginning of this month.

Police have yet to confirm these reports which can only cite anonymous "reliable sources" instead of official information but the investigation has turned into an open secret in the soccer circle.

More than 100 club officials, players, coaches and local soccer officials were questioned by police in the probe that started over a year ago, according to the Peninsula Morning Post, a newspaper based in northeast Liaoning Province where the crackdown originated.

A gambling ring was recently broken down by Liaoning police and further investigation found it worked together soccer insiders to manipulate Chinese professional league matches, the Beijing Youth Daily said.

Last edited by Jeffrey; January 2nd, 2010 at 11:02.
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old January 3rd, 2010, 23:27
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Blessed with an enormous mass of talents, football in Asia is blooming. Enjoy the flourishing players from countries such as Japan, Korea and China.

Why is China so hopeless?

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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old January 3rd, 2010, 23:31
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They haven't actually realised yet that there's lots of money in football, once they do, we're in trouble .
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old January 11th, 2010, 13:30
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old January 12th, 2010, 13:06
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Digging around, I found this thread

https://xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=229603

Basically it's the corruption that is making them fail. After the 2004 Asian Cup China has been in freefall.
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old January 12th, 2010, 14:08
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There is a tendency I see when talking to people from countries where domestic football is less developed, and although I have not discussed this with someone from China, I can hazard a guess. As in China, there are many countries with poor domestic football situations (I am thinking specifically of experiences I have had in Central America) where football is nonetheless huge. I see Barcelona and Real Madrid paraphernalia everywhere I go, but when I ask about the domestic clubs and even the national team, the responses range from, "Who would want to watch that, it's such poor quality?" to "It's a corrupt system," with some even going as far as to claim that sons of soccer officials in the country are given preferential treatment when it comes to selection for the national team.

The underlying theme in all of this though is that the domestic football associations do not do enough to reach out to the general populace of the country, and I think this can hold true in any part of the world. No interest in domestic football and the national team means no money for these clubs or the CFA, and more money for the EPL and Champions League teams. Sure, the Chinese FA can purge corruption and match-fixing (and the number of other crazy incidents I have read that occurred in Chinese football), and that is certainly necessary, but I don't think football in places like China will make huge steps until domestically and even the Chinese national team can offer up a product that can compete with foreign leagues and a national team that can hold its own in international competition.

I'm not saying China even needs to be capable of winning the World Cup or that the Super League has to compete with the EPL, because that is not going to happen in the near future, but I think what must be done is to create a serviceable product that people can identify with. So purging corruption is one thing, but it cannot stop there, and even so, draconian punishments for match-fixing may solve the issue, but it won't generate interest in the game by itself. I'm no expert on marketing, but I get the feeling the CFA needs to give more support to the clubs as I get the sense that the clubs have a whole load of issues, financial and otherwise, themselves and that is really what is at the heart of these problems.

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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old January 12th, 2010, 16:17
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btw,our current vice president of the central government is a big fan of football
(actually he call himself a fan of leverkusen)
some voice from the top ask of better football
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old January 12th, 2010, 23:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaren View Post
btw,our current vice president of the central government is a big fan of football
(actually he call himself a fan of leverkusen)
some voice from the top ask of better football
Leverkusen...that's kinda random? He have a background in pharmaceuticals?

Also, I do want to ask, what is your opinion of the domestic league in China? Do you think the Chinese FA does enough to promote the growth of soccer domestically? What kind of interest is there from the average person or the average football fan in domestic football? (As opposed to say the EPL, Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga, etc.)

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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old January 13th, 2010, 01:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naervod View Post
Leverkusen...that's kinda random? He have a background in pharmaceuticals?

Also, I do want to ask, what is your opinion of the domestic league in China? Do you think the Chinese FA does enough to promote the growth of soccer domestically? What kind of interest is there from the average person or the average football fan in domestic football? (As opposed to say the EPL, Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga, etc.)
1.my mistake. news wrote"when the german knew he was a football fan, they presented him a jersey "


2.my opinion of our domestic league? in fact, i have to say, i don't care it. but i suppose my reason is a little different. there is no professional team in my home town until now, so when i face the league, i don't have a choice so called belongingness. thus who does better ,who does worse have no matter with me. however, my college football team has been among the second division of professional league, then i could be a supporter of them……
3.but about mostly other football fans here.most of them only interested in foreign football(mostly european).most of the rest may also care domestic league, but not too much in it.then,only the again rest can be called fans of domestic league……and i suppose they only support the team from their own province. i am not sure if you can understand that……but hardly to see a fan of a team from other province while his own province also has a team.the league indeed once had some golden time.
generally speaking, i suppose the league is on a positive trend.there are some good signals.
4.the fa here? actually the fa and the nt have been a joke for a long time.but chinese fa has got some awards (include the best fa in asia) from afc.that is considered as a bigger joke.i don't know too much about them, so i am not able to give a serious comment. but according what news report i have read, i suppose they don't have a good and professional marketing and financial management.it seems that the system can not encourage the clubs.
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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old January 13th, 2010, 10:56
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Chinaren says the same things as most other Chinese football fans I have encountered.
Personally, I think corruption and a poor domestic league can only account for so much.

To be good at football, there has to be a talent development system, and a good base of kids playing ball to choose from.
In Shanghai for instance, there are very few public football grounds compared to the size of the city, and in the school yards most often basketball courts cover the grounds. Made easier because you can have those are easier to maintain - ie. no grass. When I was a kid growing up in Denmark, we played football in every break between classes no matter the weather, after school we went somewhere to play football, until we had to go home and do school homework (some times) or had to go to the football club or tennis club to train.
In China, both because the demands on kids in schools are higher than it ever was for me in terms of home work and hours at school, and because there are rarely the physical facilities to play as much around the school, you just don't get kids playing ball all the time. Take Brazil and kids playing in the streets or on the beach... I have never seen Chinese kids playing football on their street except once in a very rural setting in Sichuan. I might be very ignorant on how things genereally are in the suburbs, but regardless... there's a massive part of the population who just don't have the time or facilities to become good.

The sports China are really, really good at... either they have been for a long time and have great setups and culture for it (table tennis, badminton for instance), or they are sports where the domestic federations can pick out physically well endowed kids in the school system and put them into special schools or set ups where training is the most important thing (diving, swimming, weightlifting etc.). Basketball is more or less the only sport I know off where the organic growth of it in China is similar to how kids get into organised sports in Denmark.

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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old January 13th, 2010, 12:08
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btw, the only football pitch in my home town city (city district) is in my high school……except the city stadium.
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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old January 21st, 2010, 12:11
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Representative of what we have been talking about, I suppose, but that last paragraph makes me think there can definitely be an improved response to Chinese domestic football.

Quote:
Chinese officials questioned in match fixing probe

BEIJING (AP)—Investigators are questioning three leading Chinese Football Association officials as part of a wide-ranging probe into match fixing allegations, state media reported Thursday.

The move is the latest in a push to rid the Chinese game of the taint of cheating and raise the overall level of play following complaints from top communist leaders.

Last month saw the arrest of 16 team officials and others suspected of bribing or threatening players and referees to determine the outcome of games they had bet on.

Investigators in the northeastern province of Liaoning were questioning Nan Yong and Yang Yimin, both vice chairmen of the association, along with the former director of its referee committee association, Zhang Jianqiang, the Xinhua News Agency said.

“With the full support from the sports department, the crackdown on manipulating domestic soccer matches through commercial bribery has showcased a firm attitude in fighting corruption and rectifying the soccer sector,” Xinhua said, quoting a statement from the national police.

It did not say if they were suspects, although local newspapers reported that the three had been missing from their offices for many days, with colleagues unaware of their whereabouts.

Football is very popular in China but the national men’s team is currently ranked No. 97 in the world, sandwiched between Albania and Cuba, and the weakness of the domestic league has been identified as a key factor.

Despite that, the top-tier 16-team China Super League is in better shape financially than it has been in years, with attendance hitting a record average of 16,300 a game last season. Big name brands Nike and Pirelli have made a combined annual commitment of 150 million yuan ($22 million) to sponsor the competition.

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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old May 30th, 2010, 07:50
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Blame on the system, but I think it's most on the players. A lot of them aren't that driven like a professional player. When they get a relatively big contract domestically, they are like ok, I am done. Now I can just enjoy my life. Spend a lot of time partying instead of focusing on one's career. In other words, lack of professionalism. You can't be satisfied, when you start feeling that way, then you won't improve as a player. You have to be athletes like Michael Jordan, Kobe,etc. Constantly working on their games in order to stay ahead. Chinese players don't have that kind of self motivation. They can learn something from their countryman Yao Ming, look how hard he works after he started playing in the NBA. He understands he has to push himself in order to be the best he can be. Otherwise, someone will take his place.

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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old June 4th, 2010, 18:57
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China beat France 1-0 and I gotta say, even though it was a friendly this is a different China than I have seen or I think most of us have seen. Although pretty sloppy going forward, they defended superbly at the back in the face of overwhelming French possession and were not afraid to throw their bodies into the challenge, made some great tackles towards the end of the game.

Special props to the keeper, Zeng Cheng, who took everything that was thrown at him. Seriously, it cracks me up sometimes to hear all these superstar keepers complaining about this ball and then see a young keeper in his fourth cap for China deal with it so confidently. The goal though was a bit of a fluke, it was a free kick from way out that seemed to change direction on Lloris, either that or he just didn't see it. China also had some great chances on set pieces early in the first half.

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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old June 4th, 2010, 19:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by イラ View Post
Blessed with an enormous mass of talents, football in Asia is blooming. Enjoy the flourishing players from countries such as Japan, Korea and China.

Why is China so hopeless?

yeah amazing what people write

they're by far the least talented continent considering their huge population

Big games are easy than the other games, unfortunately. Every times we have the control the games, under the control the games, during the games we had the some possibilities, some big chances, some big okazyons, something like that but what can I do, sometimes? And….it’s the football, that’s the football, something happened. Everything is something happened. - Fatih Terim
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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old June 4th, 2010, 19:16
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...

China has few urban slums or a lower class that sees professional athletics as a ticket to riches, a deeply enrooted culture that prizes academic achievement above sporting prowess, non-existent grassroots facilities, corrupt organisational structures and a rigid archaic talent scouting system.

In the end, who cares? China's story is one of economic growth and the transition of the rural into the urban, not of footballing romance.

Also as Glen said, there is probably 50 basketball courts to every soccer field. I've never played pick-up basketball anywhere other than China, and never anything other than pick-up football in Melbourne. If China becomes good at any form of football, it would probably be in futsal or similar.

how strange it is to be anything at all
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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old June 14th, 2010, 07:55
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our female NT is in crisis....
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