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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old November 8th, 2009, 23:21 Thread Starter
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Homogeneous criteria

Hi guys,

In the last game, a couple of situations have started a discussion, which didn't have any effect on the final results, but this is the kind of situation that can start a fire that could eventually kill the competition and the necessary mutual trust.

The discussion started with the "assists" awarded by the source of the XTPL teams. We didn't have any problem with this in the first leg. But these problems appeared in the 2nd leg:

- Own goals. The site of the EPL awards assists in own goals.
- Penalties. The site of the EPL awards assists to the player that wins a penalty for his team (not in the case that they also kick and score the penalty).

In the Spanish leagues, I can assure that we don't give points for these "assists". I think the Italian league do not give them either.

Basically, the idea is to reach an agreement on this. Personally, I don't care if we should count them or not, but I definitely think we should be homogeneous in this or the English teams would have an unfair advantage.

In a thread, Ghost World suggested to use the ESPN site to count the assists for these European games. Definitely, it'd be an homogenous source and a solution for this.

What do you think? As always, let's be positive, let's look for solutions. It shouldn't be difficult.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 08:56 Thread Starter
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We guys must make a decision about this game.

First of all, I think that we must keep in mind that we have to make decisions for the good of the game, the general interest, not the individual one.

I seriously think Hunter got assists that would have never counted in the Italian and the Spanish league, which gives an advantage to the English teams. Ghost World did a fantastic job, as always, but the problem is that the EPL source has a different system to consider the assists.

I don't mind to use one system or the other, but the problem is that the premierleague.com system is totally different to other sources. Ghost World himself proposed the use of ESPN, which has a fantasy game for the 3 leagues, and this could be a good source to consider the assists.

Even though I still respected the initial points given to Hunter Lionheart, I think that we should use ESPN from now to consider the assists. Why? It's easier to adapt the EPL scores to ESPN than to adapt the Spanish and Italian leagues to the premierleague.com system, because we don't have any source like this one.

In that case, Hunter would lose his game, although the final result do not change and Hunter advances anyway.

Please, say something about this as soon as you can.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost World View Post
Final scores

Hunter Lionheart

+2 Howard

+2 Lescott
+2 Skrtel

+2 Baines
+0 Bosingwa
+2 Mears (sub)
+3 Mears (assist)

+2 Fabregas
+5 Fabregas (goal)
+3 Fabregas (assist)
+2 Sidwell
+3 Sidwell (assist)

+2 Arshavin
+5 Arshavin (goal)
+2 N'Zogbia

+2 Bellamy
+5 Bellamy (goal)
+2 Rodallega

+46 (subtotal)


When you said 3 assists - one legit and two iffy ones I assumed you mean Lescott and two others... I didn't know you missed Lescott's assist and awarded three phantom ones

Amma work with you... (click on player name for ESPN link)

Lescott => clear assist, no questions about it. Replay (@ 3:50 of the highlights). ESPN agrees.

Mears => he hit Lescott in the hand for the penalty. A pat on the back for a job well done, but no assist (only in football manager). Replay (@ 0:50 of the highlights). ESPN agrees.

Fabregas => own goal from a defender. Cruel, but no assist (been there done that... with Sneijder not getting credit with an assist for some of his shots/passes that went in off a defender 2 years ago). Replay (@ 0:33 of the highlights). ESPN agrees.

Sidwell => The most ridiculous one yet. Sidwell hits the post from 2cm out and the penalty taker rebounds it in. No assist. Not only that, HL should be penalized for having such a donkey in the team (I demand passage to the next round at his expense ). Replay (@ 5:45 of the higlights). ESPN agrees.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 11:15
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I dont know how reliable/consistent ESPN are, but I defenitely think this is someone that is useful to have a common ground on immediately, and I guess that site would be suitful common source to use.

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 14:17 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osman View Post
I dont know how reliable/consistent ESPN are, but I defenitely think this is someone that is useful to have a common ground on immediately, and I guess that site would be suitful common source to use.
I saw inconsistencies in The Judge score too. He got 2 "strange" assists.

Definitely, a solution is needed now, because this may be the roots of future conflicts.

In the cases of The Judge and Hunter, there's no problem, because they were going to win anyway, but if the game is tight...
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 14:30
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ESPN looks fine for the EPL stats, from what I've seen.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 15:02
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I think most of us agree on ESPN... they are the best bet for a common competition - universal criteria = WIN.

Random fact about Jose Mourinho #371:

In 1989, he married Matilde, whom he had known since childhood. They have two children: Matilde and José Jr.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 15:04 Thread Starter
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I did CinqueDiMaggio's score based on ESPN.

Anyway, I think we should use it for the assists only. I mean, there's not much info about minutes, for example. For goals, any site is fine for me.

So the discussion is about assists and I guess R10 and TGO will be fine with it.

I'll make a work to see what is the difference between any of our leagues and the assists given in this 2nd leg, ok?
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 16:02 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koeman4 View Post
I'll make a work to see what is the difference between any of our leagues and the assists given in this 2nd leg, ok?
La Porka
Assist for Castillo - Given in as.com and ESPN too
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...melog?id=88041

Joshua
Assist for Silva - Given in as.com and ESPN too
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...melog?id=43815

Osman
Assist for Stankovic - Given in their Italian source and NOT GIVEN by ESPN
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...melog?id=11713

Amiumtaur
Assist for Guarente - Given in the Italian source and ESPN
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...elog?id=104318

Hunter Lionheart
Assist for Cesc - Given by EPL.com and NOT GIVEN by ESPN
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...melog?id=38886

Assist for Mears - Given by EPL.com and NOT GIVEN by ESPN
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...amelog?id=5027

Assist for Arshavin - Given by EPL.com and NOT GIVEN by ESPN
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...melog?id=22873

Assist for Lescott- Given by ESPN and in EPL.com
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...amelog?id=5355

Assist for Sidwell - Given by EPL.com and NOT GIVEN by ESPN
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...melog?id=15820

SM Online
Assist for Riera - Given by EPL.com and ESPN
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...melog?id=11729

AT19
Assist for Villa - Given by as.com and ESPN
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...melog?id=28600

ilgenio
Assist for Ronaldinho - Given by Italian source and ESPN
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...melog?id=20128

Assist for Pirlo - Given by Italiian source and EPSN
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...melog?id=11888

mutu1875
Assist for Defoe - Given by EPL.com and ESPN
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...amelog?id=7975

The Judge
Assist for Shawcross - Given by EPL.com and NOT GIVEN by ESPN
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...melog?id=89557

Assist for Scharner - Given by both sources
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...melog?id=20451

Assist for Van Persie - Given by both sources
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...melog?id=18858

2 Assists for Carew - 2 given by EPL.com and ONLY 1 GIVEN BY ESPN
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...melog?id=11833

SDD
Assist for Wright-Phillips - Given by both sources
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futb...amelog?id=5030


------------

Well, considering all this, if we take ESPN's assists sytem, the final results would be:

El Primitivo (41) 5-3 (42-12=30) Hunter Lionheart
Osman (34-3=31) 3-0 (18) Joshua
CinqueDiMaggio (19) 0-3 (38-6=32) The Judge

Can we approve these results? Nothing really changes, but I believe ESPN should be a good option.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 16:17
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Assists should not be given on own goals. We use La Gazzetta dello Sport and Corriere dello Sport to score our games and they don't consider those "assists" and neither do we in scoring.

ESPN does not keep perfect stats of Serie A so we don't go by that.

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 16:22
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FYI, I just re-checked, and the reason the assist is given to Stankovic for me is not for counting assists in a different standard, but a mistake by Gazzetta who mixed up players (have similar build and look from a far, the commentator when watching even said Stankovic assisted on tv, so may be similar missunderstood for this journo). Just re-checked the highlights, and its Thiago Motta who assists Eto'o, and not Stanko as Gazzetta counted it as.

But the tiny problem with this ESPN site though is, in this case, they arent counting Motta's assist, they miss the LATEST assist for a player of the champion team (and not obsecure team), what else Serie A related do they miss

The goal in question, straight forward assist for Motta:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSZqmP1RZY8


But this wont be a problem, simple mistakes like the above can be chekced and re-checked from various sources. GDS, Gazzetta, football-italia, virgilio sport etc, and if there is a descrepancy, it will be easy to get. Plus obviously the easiet way to get is to check the footage yourself if not seen the game already.

Way easier to deal with then counting assists with completely different and loose standards. Own goals and pk assists are just plain weird.

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Last edited by Osman; November 10th, 2009 at 16:28.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 16:31
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Btw, I watched the City-Burnley game, may I ask why Mears is not given the assist for the goal by ESPN? I get some of the others, handball pks, goal post, own goal, loose standards etc. But Mears, if I am not confusing players (the bald black RB, no?) assisted Burnleys 2nd goal by simply making a low cross/pass from the right to a completely open Burnley player who scored. Text book assist, no? Is this another case of ESPN missing it like Motta's case?

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 16:53 Thread Starter
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This time La Liga assists were fine. When I checked them 2 years ago, they were missing some of them.

The thing is that we must agree with a solution. It's evident that epl.com is a bit "weird" in the way they give assists.

So the thing we need to know is if, at least, ESPN is reliable for the EPL. And I don't care if it's ESPN or any other site, but it's evident that epl.com gives assists too easily, following different standards, and this fact creates distorsion in the competition.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 18:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osman View Post
(the bald black RB, no?)


Thats Chris Eagles assisting for the second Burnley goal...

You be the judge if he is black and bald tho:



Also: Motta

He IS credited with an assist (check gamelog).

-----------------------------------------------

It seems like we have a winner - ESPN

Random fact about Jose Mourinho #371:

In 1989, he married Matilde, whom he had known since childhood. They have two children: Matilde and José Jr.


Last edited by El Primitivo; November 10th, 2009 at 18:41.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 19:02
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Just use the ESPN site for a list of assists, its easiest.

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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 19:25
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Thanks for clearing that up Prim, if so ESPN gets from me. I watched the game, Mears was shit, but thought he was involved in that goal.

And how do you navigate to that page where it says Motta has the assist? I went to his profile page from roster page, and it doesnt say any assist, in this season at all.

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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 19:53
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They always refresh the main page of a player a bit late (maybe they review the latest match later on), but under the game log tab (not statistics tab) its refreshed soon after the game ends..


Random fact about Jose Mourinho #371:

In 1989, he married Matilde, whom he had known since childhood. They have two children: Matilde and José Jr.


Last edited by El Primitivo; November 10th, 2009 at 19:59.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 20:42
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LOL, you have something against Motta? (is a prick)


Thanks for the help. Yeah lets all use ESPN, those for, say aye.

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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old November 10th, 2009, 22:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osman View Post
LOL, you have something against Motta?
Nothing effective (for now - i am working on it)

aye

Random fact about Jose Mourinho #371:

In 1989, he married Matilde, whom he had known since childhood. They have two children: Matilde and José Jr.

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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old November 11th, 2009, 08:23 Thread Starter
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Ok, I'm taking ESPN then. I'm going to change the results.
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