Piciking up the Pieces -The New Brasil Team - Xtratime Community
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post #1 of 593 (permalink) Old July 13th, 2014, 01:26 Thread Starter
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Piciking up the Pieces -The New Brasil Team

1. Who should be our next Manager?
2. Which players should we be giving chances to?
3. Who is never welcomed in the squad again?

Where were you when we lost 1-7?
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post #2 of 593 (permalink) Old July 13th, 2014, 02:32
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Have a plan B. Too long with a "settled" line up is actually not correct. Being a tinkerer is underrated.
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post #3 of 593 (permalink) Old July 13th, 2014, 10:54
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1. Who should be our next Manager?
2. Which players should we be giving chances to?
3. Who is never welcomed in the squad again?
1. Maradona.
2. Anyone not in the current squad.
3. IMO, luiz, overrated piddle, marcelo, gustavo, maicon, cesaer too old, alves, fred, jo, ramires, hulk.

Only Silva, Oscar & Neymar of starters should be used. Paulinho and Fernandinho should be rotation players.

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post #4 of 593 (permalink) Old July 13th, 2014, 16:52 Thread Starter
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Luiz does great when he plays where he's told to play.

Also 4. Why not make every training session closed? Why are any of them open to the public?

Where were you when we lost 1-7?
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post #5 of 593 (permalink) Old July 14th, 2014, 04:21
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The New Brasil Team

Lets start right here and hopefully with a new coach

I know us Brasilians are hurt by the loss, but what I think hurts even more is the way we played.We had the most fouls in the WC I think, We played like a small country who looked to stop the opponent rather than playing our own game (Like most of of our little oppnents). We complained about refes more than I have ever seen (also I have never seen refs turning against us on good calls).We used to perform magic, scoring for fun and making the game look easy and beautiful. I remember in 2006 we scored a goal after making 30 consecutive passes. The whole world saw our style (not our vintage but still good for todays fans) I want Brasilian football back ,when used to use our skills rather than shit to win a game.this world cup ,when we played ,Colombia ,Chile, Mexico,Croats ,we were nervous ,why ? no matter how good they were we should always beat these guys with ease.


I am drinking with German fans from Germany, in my house in Porto Alegre and they ask me the same thing , "What happened"

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post #6 of 593 (permalink) Old July 14th, 2014, 14:54
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1 - Not an outsider coach. Only the obstuse morons (Vira-latas bairristas) of ESPN and Globo are fishing this. They base this in an idea that our coaches are not modern - like the wanking last year when Autuori came with his high horse talking about ethics and modernization. They didnt care to look guys like Cuca, Marcelo Oliveira and even Tite put their teams to play all the time, etc. They still think the only reference are Joel Santana or Muricy.

Amazing how they went to praise Van Gaal. First because he changes the team. Oh, didn't they notice Holland played worst after Van Gaal great changes (which was basically a way to put back Kuyt in the team.). They even praised the dutch team for being cooler and not rushing things to the long ball. Excuse me, against Mexico Van Gaal only strategy was putting an Dutch Oseas to dig long balls. And Krul thing is laughable, if wasn't bad enough his team wasn't organized enough to bet an offside trap, this meant, despite his selection of players, he couldnt change or think a way to change his team for 40 minutes or so to defeat Costa Rica. Obviously, the fact Holland was the first team ever to not finish to goal a single time in a world cup semifinal - as the only chance, the late one with robben wasnt finished at all - is not under their consideration.

Heck, how they want to change brazilian structure with someone who does not know or live here at all? Or they think european coaches - who are exactly those who pay millions for Marcelos and Fernandinhos - will sundenly vallue the players here? They would just take more players to europe.

2 - Witch burns never worked, but two things are obvious: Some players are too old to continue, obviously. And Marcelo showed once more how awful he is. It is not the first time, he did the exactly samething in the Olympics. He destroyed us in this competition, if we want a balanced team, he cannot be there.

Another thing: the Next coach should flat out determine that if you are in Russia or anything similar you will not be called. Players want to be millionaries before 24 years? Fine. They can do it but forget about football at highest level. And if you are in the bench (Not due to injurie or not a team with big rotation), you are out. The problem is the coach? The team? Then plan better where you going to be signing a contract. And get out of there. Unless you are a wonder like Neymar, most players can be replaced.

3 - Frankly, of the players left behind I think the most missed were Rafinha (Bayern) and Filipe Luis. I understand Filipe didn't impress on his first chances, but then, Marcelo always impressed negatively. And Rafinha and even for example, Marcos Rocha last year, werent give chances when in the Confederation Cup, Juan was called for the position. That is ridiculous, Alves showed to be unreliable without Hulk covering his ass, Maicon came, but the guy is clearly past it.

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post #7 of 593 (permalink) Old July 14th, 2014, 14:55
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And please, never Parreira. The guy ego destroys another world cup. He is the biggest loser of World Cup story, not a winner.

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post #8 of 593 (permalink) Old July 15th, 2014, 11:35
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1- Why not a foreigner coach, JC? I don't think just bringing someone from another nationality will instantly make the team work, but why simply rule it out? It's not logical to think that having someone from another country will solve the problems, but it's also not very reasonable to say that we should not do that. It's not like we are flooded with great options that would be better than a Mourinho.

Mourinho and Guardiola are better coaches than we have here. Also Pekerman, for his experience in NTs and showing that he's able to make a NT work like a team, and the football Argentina and Colombia played under his management was very attractive. I think he would be better than the options you've mentioned.

Tite can make a defensive team and apply "modern concepts" about training and tactics, but I still have my doubts about him. Corinthians was his first great work in several years, and it didn't end so well, they spent the whole 2013 season playing like crap. Tite certainly has his part on this.

Marcelo Oliveira is not experienced enough, he would be a gamble. Cuca is the name I would be most curious to see, he already showed he's able to try different things and his approach to the game is very intense and unique. Anyway, I still think he's more of a league coach than a playoff coach, even after winning Libertadores. He never seemed to be able to make a great defensive system and in this moment I don't think Brazil has material to make an offensive approach. Brasil is worse than Germany, Spain and Argentina when it comes to offensive talent, so there's no way we can rely in Cuca's usual approach to "score a lot and conceeding less".

About Van Gaal, not that I'm his fan or anything close to that, but since you've argued that Holland couldn't finish against Argentina, it would be fair to also point that they didn't conceed a single goal for the last six hours of World Cup. That's a very impressive mark, you can't just look at one side. And their team was not so good, the defensive system was built of several young and modest players, so it's not like he achieved that by having Cannavaro and Maldini on his defense. Holland did a great WC, even if Van Gaal can't be called a genius for that.

Also, I didn't get your point about foreigner coaches "not living here". Did someone say that we need a coach from outside because he would call more Brazilian league players? That doesn't make any sense.


2 - Fred, of course. And Julio Cesar, Victor, Jefferson, Dani Alves, Maicon, Fernandinho should not be called again. They simply aren't good enough to be considered now, all of them will be old and IMO a player should be really special to be considered for a WC when they are past 32 years old. I'd also give a break to Marcelo, Hulk and Jô. Luiz Gustavo never was good enough for NT IMO, even if he didn't stink in the WC like Fernandinho.

Quote:
Another thing: the Next coach should flat out determine that if you are in Russia or anything similar you will not be called. Players want to be millionaries before 24 years? Fine. They can do it but forget about football at highest level. And if you are in the bench (Not due to injurie or not a team with big rotation), you are out. The problem is the coach? The team? Then plan better where you going to be signing a contract. And get out of there. Unless you are a wonder like Neymar, most players can be replaced.
I don't know if I ABSOLUTELY agree with this but you certaintly have an interesting point. It's something that we should talk about.


3 - I would call for the next friendly:

GK: Diego Alves, Neto
SB: Rafinha, Danilo, Filipe Luis
CB: Thiago Silva, David Luiz, Dedé, Marquinhos
DM: Lucas Leiva, Ramires
CM: Paulinho, Hernanes
AM: Phillipe Coutinho, Oscar
RM: Lucas Moura, Roberto Firmino
LM: Bernard, Willian
CF: Neymar

and to start I would play with 3 defenders:

------------------------Alves
-------Dedé------------Thiago-----------David Luiz
-Rafinha--------Leiva------------Hernanes--------Filipe Luis
-----------Lucas-----------Neymar------------Coutinho

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post #9 of 593 (permalink) Old July 15th, 2014, 12:40
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I suppose every player needs some personal therapist.
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post #10 of 593 (permalink) Old July 15th, 2014, 13:59
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Or maybe just a coach that doesn't cut any player from the squad because he was 20 minutes later to dinner (and keeps others even if they spent the last season on the bench).

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post #11 of 593 (permalink) Old July 15th, 2014, 14:41
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Well, I am not sure if the R10 case was true or one of our media oba-ba (another thing that must change is the relaitonship with the media. They keep complaining about Parreira and Scolari being outdated, but when they come to analyse the game, the old barrismo was there with some awful attacks on Bernard. Retards like Trajano even went about his size and how you would never expect a team with jo and bernard to win anything), but in the end it would not mattr, since R10 last year injury and attempts to play with it this year, showed him to not be fit even for the long term game.

Anyways, why not an outsider?

Well, first the reason why is because the motivation for it is false. The Autuorism that claims all coaches here are outdated is false. As you said, we do have coaches are able to play like any modern coach. They do not dress like Klopp or Low, but Cuca, Tite, Marcelo Oliveira are not Joel Santana or Jair Pirceni. Even the talk about our coaches not using "science" , which was just statistics, is far off. There is reasons to mistrust them, but none related to modernization. I would say Mourinho's continual trouble to have success recently and with a star team - In Chelsea he have many stars, but mostly "minor stars", since his ego is way too big - due to his usual defensive approach, even with that single good year with Real - is a big reason to mistrust him. Guardiolla has problems to deal with changes in the game plan and needs an even squad all over, kind of middlefield packed team which is more unfit than Cuca's style to us (and really, Spain has more offensive power than us? They were desperated after Diego Costa because they have low offensive power).

To be honest even accusation that Scolari failed becaue his tactics weren't modern is a bit far off. Those are the same tactics used last year and out schizophrenic press claimed to be modern and to be honest not all wrong. Pressure from attack, gets advantage, withdraw for counters... It is the odd reading as "It is not like Bayern - Guardiolla - then it is outdated". The tactics just failed to be praticed.

Now, specially for europeans.

One of your big problems last decade is the constant downgrading of our resources and overgrading of european based resources. Bench players in a bad momment get a place in the team while players here are not tested. Young players decide to move anywhere to europe - and anywhere is not just ukraine or russia, but even to teams where they would obviously not be part of the team. Moving to Spurs? - under the claim that they will be developed (they are after money of course). The calendar is never adjusted for teams here have calls either. An outsider coach, specially european, will only increase this. Why staying here if the coach for NT is in Italy, Spain, Germany, etc. This will only make this problem worst (not to mention, brazil is not the only place where NT coaches have ties with agents, etc. Obviously, if the coach develop enough interest to study and follow us closed to dig players, this will be like asking the fox to guard the chicken. Albeit, an European coach will probally trust much more in players in europe, so expect Fernandinho or heck, Lucas leiva, to be always called).

There is nothing more schizophrenic that the discuss of the media that we need to solve our problems with our internal structure and find our identidy by copying germans and bringing an outsider.

Quote:
I don't know if I ABSOLUTELY agree with this but you certaintly have an interesting point. It's something that we should talk about.
Their calendar is messed up. Anyways, there is no better argument, just think what happened with players that went there when they returned... Just to think, the best former-russian player we have is Jo (and he even after a bad year and under specific circunstances of Atletico-Cuca, that was the project Phoenix 2012-2013)

And if there is someone I would never call is Marcelo. I would never call him in first place. His defensive capacity makes Marcos Rocha a Maldini. And his offensive? Never seem much production from him at all, plus he does the rulebook mistake of any full back: he carrries the ball. He does not know the concept of 1-2 or overlapping. It is not a case of an offesive full back that leaves behind a hole, it is a case of an awful football player.

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post #12 of 593 (permalink) Old July 15th, 2014, 19:49
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That's what everyone was asking the Germans about ten-fifteen years ago

Vada a bordo, CAZZO!!! Gregorio De Falco

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post #13 of 593 (permalink) Old July 16th, 2014, 18:18
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post #14 of 593 (permalink) Old July 17th, 2014, 01:40
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Originally Posted by WFA View Post
1. Who should be our next Manager?
2. Which players should we be giving chances to?
3. Who is never welcomed in the squad again?
1, I would do everything to get Jorge Sampaoli to be our manager. Guy is Tele Santana reincarnated in the modern style and would make wonders with the kids that are coming up and get brazilian football in club level to play attacking fearless football again


2. Coutinho, Giuliano, Dudu, Filipe Luiz, get Willian a sequence, Fabio, Gil, Marquinhos, Lucas Moura

3. Julio Cesar, Daniel Alves, Maicon, Hulk, Fred


Starting a squad like this:

1. Fabio (Cruzeiro)

2. Danilo (Porto) 3. Thiago Silva 4. David Luiz 6. Filipe Luis (Chelsea)

8. Paulinho 5. Luiz Gustavo

7. Lucas Moura 9. Willian 11. Coutinho

10. Neymar Jr.

SUBS

12. Diego Alves

13. Rafael (Man Utd) 14. Gil (Corinthians) 17. Marquinhos (PSG) or DEDE 16. Marcelo

18. Ramires 15. Fernando (shaktar) or CASEMIRO (Real Madrid)

23. Dudu (Gremio) or Bernard 21. Oscar 20. Lucas Piazon (Chelsea) or Roberto Firmino

19. Gabi Gol (Santos)


start getting some of these kids the nationa team environemnt and start them getting ready for 2018, so we can win the title. we have 2 countries breathing down our neck and we need a title. the cushion is over!!!

we need to work our youth levels, cause we are not making top players like we use to .

we need to fortify our clubs financially, and our league also!!

Last edited by Ze da Fiel; July 17th, 2014 at 01:52.
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post #15 of 593 (permalink) Old July 17th, 2014, 01:44
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An Argentinian for the job? the last week of the World Cup was a disaster but let's not get carried away
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post #16 of 593 (permalink) Old July 17th, 2014, 01:57
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we have an argie on teh basketball team and he does wonders for the basketball.


sampaoli's game plan is what we need to revive brazilian football from the "defensive midfielder" cloud we have. we played RAMIRES as a right winger in 3 games of the world cup... that was an embarassment
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post #17 of 593 (permalink) Old July 17th, 2014, 05:02 Thread Starter
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yea, that was an atrocious mourinho moment when felipao did that. un-be-lieve-a-ble

Ze you forgot Oscar, and I understand why.
Oscar was the biggest sissy on our team. He created zzzzzzzzzero. Gave small short passes backwards AND dived everytime we started losing. I was cussing him out in the holland game, then he started to dribble a bunch of players and get the team going.

One reality check that we have is that we have no Striker. Or, I should say- centroavante because quite honestly alllll the strikers we ever had could dribble, pass and shoot.

It wasnt until barca came a long with a "false 9" that people thought 9s couldnt do anything but take the last touch on a gol ala Ruud.

R9 was the striker, but never the target man. He got the ball and ran with it. Can Neymar do the same? Can anyone? Scolari put Willian as a striker against Holland

Another thought is that this team wasnt exactly the same as the confederations cup team that shined so brightly. Couple differences: Ramires, Willian and no Lucas Moura.
Ramires completely changes how we play- forces our counter-attack. Willian isnt a finished product yet. Oscar was much more involved last year. And Moura was a great "denilson"-esque sub. Put your head down and dribble all the way to the corner flag to keep possession and waste time. Plus he's growing well in PSG

2. WE need to start complaining so much on the field. We are playing with way to much anger and not enough alegria. wheres the alegria lads? All I saw was David Luiz throwing elbows pointing the finger like hulk hogan or something, right in players faces. Marcelo complains about everything in life all the time, and felipao spends all his time shouting.

Where were you when we lost 1-7?
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post #18 of 593 (permalink) Old July 17th, 2014, 05:16
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The team didnt play the same like last year, but it was not because of ramires-william on lucas - who was irrelevant last year. Or because of the counter attacks- since Scolari kept the first half pressure- second half counter attack approach of the confederation cup.

The wasnt the same because of other problems with the same players. Compare last year:Luis Gustavo part of Bayern tremble, Marcelo was a starter of Real, Paulinho well for Corinthians, Hulk only 1 year in russia, Fred coming from top scoring in Libertadores, Neymar without injuries and actually not wasted as a left winger in Barcelona, Oscar no coming from an injury... They had better momments.

Also, Confederation cup demanded a lot from Middlefield players, Oscar was defending like crazy (he still, top ball recover for us), Hulk was basically a huge zinho, even fred did some help. In the cup, they were not just unable to perform like this as Hulk for example, had some "Neura" and started to try to solve things by himself, but his finishing insecurity only grew bigger and bigger. This got even bigger every game. He started to hold even more the ball, to not pass and to leave his defensive part behind. Oscar got even more loaded. With this, we had no option "wing game", Neymar was the only one. That is the difference from the Confederation cup, the loss of efficiency and collective work up front and in the middle, making the full backs to be more expose and less able to attack to produce chances...

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post #19 of 593 (permalink) Old July 17th, 2014, 11:34
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yea, that was an atrocious mourinho moment when felipao did that. un-be-lieve-a-ble

Ze you forgot Oscar, and I understand why.
Oscar was the biggest sissy on our team. He created zzzzzzzzzero. Gave small short passes backwards AND dived everytime we started losing. I was cussing him out in the holland game, then he started to dribble a bunch of players and get the team going.

One reality check that we have is that we have no Striker. Or, I should say- centroavante because quite honestly alllll the strikers we ever had could dribble, pass and shoot.

It wasnt until barca came a long with a "false 9" that people thought 9s couldnt do anything but take the last touch on a gol ala Ruud.

R9 was the striker, but never the target man. He got the ball and ran with it. Can Neymar do the same? Can anyone? Scolari put Willian as a striker against Holland

Another thought is that this team wasnt exactly the same as the confederations cup team that shined so brightly. Couple differences: Ramires, Willian and no Lucas Moura.
Ramires completely changes how we play- forces our counter-attack. Willian isnt a finished product yet. Oscar was much more involved last year. And Moura was a great "denilson"-esque sub. Put your head down and dribble all the way to the corner flag to keep possession and waste time. Plus he's growing well in PSG

2. WE need to start complaining so much on the field. We are playing with way to much anger and not enough alegria. wheres the alegria lads? All I saw was David Luiz throwing elbows pointing the finger like hulk hogan or something, right in players faces. Marcelo complains about everything in life all the time, and felipao spends all his time shouting.

i din't

i put him on the bench.

i always said he was a ciscador, and he prooved me that i was correct all along. the proper ciscador
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post #20 of 593 (permalink) Old July 17th, 2014, 15:17
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alm: And still they refer to the Confederations Cup. Still.

Let's analyse shall we.

The World Cup is the greatest nation cup.

The Confederations Cup is a warm up to the greatest nation cup.

Stop embarrassing yourselves by keeping on about the Confed Cup. All it shows is how you are declining by making such a big deal of it.
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