Piciking up the Pieces -The New Brasil Team - Page 4 - Xtratime Community
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post #61 of 593 (permalink) Old August 5th, 2014, 15:07
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Well, he removed it and later complained afterwards saying someone gave to him, so he had to hold it, etc.

Anyways, this is pointless off-target thing. Between Colombia and Germany game, scolari had 1 day to prepare the team for the game and Bernard only played with the team in the last momments -he was in the sub-team all the pratice. (According to Scolari, Bernard was already prepared to do this job before, he didnt had privacy to hide the team to Low, etc). I am sure they must have tried to give incentive to Bernard - told the story of Amarildo replacing Pele in 1962, since Bernard had the same shirt number, etc - but no incentive would made Bernard play if the team wasn't prepared for him to play. Hat or not hat.

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post #62 of 593 (permalink) Old August 5th, 2014, 15:13
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btw, this is more wrong. Dunga is saying he is watching Romulo (the one who was almost called for Italy, righ full-back) and this:

- Durante dois ou três anos jogando em alto nível, o Dedé está pronto para jogar na Europa. (For two or three years playing in high level, Dede was ready to play in Europe)

First, Dede is not playing in high level for 3 years. In fact 3 years ago he was awful, almost not playing due to injuries. This year he was bad for cruzeiro, failing in several occasions which hindered a lot their Libertadores run. After they were kicked out, Dedé was injured, cruzeiro signed Manoel (and the fans are relieved). But worst than misinformation, why the coach must tell where the player must go. It is not ready to play for europe, it is to play for Brazil.

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post #63 of 593 (permalink) Old August 5th, 2014, 15:31
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It's not just about Bernard even if the guy was talking about him.

It is generally.

You (Brazil) made a massive fuss about Neymar being injured and you cannot categorically say that in the end all this public showing of drama towards him didn't in the end have a negative affect.

Say if they had done the total opposite and just got on with it and didn't have all this public fuss about his absence. Would you have been against this or were you for the public "mourning" for Neymar leading up to the match? Did you think it was necessary?

I personally thought it was crass the whole public "mourning" of his absence let alone the possible negative affect this could have on other players. Could have spurred them on, could have been a case that it was just highlighting that Brazil were promoting Neymar as an absolute crack (he isn't an absolute crack btw just yet).

Wouldn't have mattered in the end anyway. Germany would still have beaten Brazil with Neymar on the pitch but the whole episode smelt a bit of hopelessness.
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post #64 of 593 (permalink) Old August 5th, 2014, 16:10
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There wasnt a public mourning over neymar, the general feeling here was positive and more in the sense "We will win it for Neymar". The point is that the emotional wreck was there already. The "Neymar loss" increased this.

In a way, you could say that Brazil confidance went down in group stage with the difficulty to win the games even creating lots of chances. The colombia game was having another story, to rebuild this confidance, but the way it happened (neymar injury) the impact was too huge. The effect was leaving the team in the same void it was before.

But I think the effect was worst in the tactical aspect - also already there of course - scolari was already changing the players (not the team exactly), with neymar down, even this was out of track.

I do not know - Germany would be better - but the game conditions would be another. Not just emotional, but tactical. I still see the defeat starting due the obvious flaws of the team and the "goleada" due the psychological problems, if you understand me.

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post #65 of 593 (permalink) Old August 5th, 2014, 19:52
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I think the better thing to do would have been for the manager to do a few interviews to the press before the match stating the disappointment of losing Neymar but the team will go on and have even more desire now to win it for Neymar. A few of the players could have done the same. Leave it at that rather than the show and it was a show of coming out onto the pitch with Neymar hats and t-shirts.

Would you have seen Germany doing the same thing if they had lost Mueller to injury in their previous match before the Brazil game? Coming out in Mueller hats and t-shirts? Seems very unlikely doesn't it.

Maybe it's just a cultural difference I don't know.

Anyway this is just a small footnote on a rather bigger issue as you say.
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post #66 of 593 (permalink) Old August 5th, 2014, 20:11
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But that is basically what was done, with Neymar himself coming to say he didnt lose the cup yet because the team would still play it win it.

There was an absurd, but not on CBF hands: the doctors that came saying they have how to make Neymar play the finals. CBF doctors came asap to complain the lack of ethics and the absurd of it (they basically did a mariel, analysing Neymar by the picture in the media). It seems like the hats and the neymar talk could be linked the sponsors (exlporing Neymar image) more than anything - and while I agree that is wrong, I doubt Gilmar will do anything or was doing critics to sponsors. (Then I would be all happy for this).

It is not a cultural difference, Maturin. It is something else. Of course, Neymar was the main star of the home team. You do not have a similar sittuation in any world cup, when we lost Pele, the cup was in Chile. And it was in a emergencial sittuation, Puskas was out in group stages in 54, Pele in group stage in 62... only Ronaldo in 1998 was in similar sittuation and you saw the psychological impact. Also, this team was build around Neymar - not talent wise only (because there are other good players), but depended on his mobility and intensity. It was more like Argentina losing Messi or Holand Robben (ok, if the referees give him cards for diving). Germany wasn't build around Muller, while they would lose a bit, they wouldn't have the team distribution on the field so affected. The drama was bigger, perhaps comparable to Zidane in 2002 and you saw that french team was demolished by his absence too.

I would add how it happened was a bit of wtf. It was a dead ball, no dangerouns move, thousands way to stop that counter. End of the game. He controled his temper to avoid a yellow for 4 games, managed it. The game was over and then... You have to admit it was a bit of letdown way for this to happen, a bit like Bolt not running the next 100 meters Olympic final because he tripped a banana peel.

I think the bigger critics reggarding focus was more on the talk about Thiago Silva yellow.

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post #67 of 593 (permalink) Old August 5th, 2014, 20:25
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I could still not see Germany coming out onto the pitch in t-shirts and hats highlighting a player even if they lost a star player that they were very reliant on.

Mueller is one of their star players but if you want to stretch it further and say that Germany being totally reliant on one player and losing that one player I still could not see them doing the same actions that Brazil did.

It would just seem unimaginable for Germany to do such a thing.

So in that sense it may well be cultural or if not certainly very different mentalities between the two.

Germany may have put the hats and t-shirts on to highlight a player after they had won the thing. Certainly not before a big match.
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post #68 of 593 (permalink) Old August 6th, 2014, 23:30
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Jcamilo

Bernard was a schoolboy playing against men


All this neymar this and neymar that in the brazilian press for 3 years drive anyone like me, who has a sane mind, completely crazy.

what a bunch of tossers and losers. instead of going on to the pitch to win it.

they are the only team in history that cried before a penalty shoot out.

they put neymar's shirt before the germany game, as if the guy had cried.... it was already all emotional and they just added more emotion to the thing.

a totally weak team mentally, technically or tactically.

a team of shame.

That Julio Cesar, i always said here for 15 years in XT that he has never fooled me. Once again, out of the 7 balls that went to the goal, an AVERAGE keeper (i'm not saying a buffon or neuer of life... hence AVERAGE), would have gotten at least 4 of those balls easily. we would have lost 2-0 to germany, who had everthing better than us in whatever analysis of the pitch you want to put.

That Hulk, how can someone put that guy to "think" the game for us?

Fernandinho? what loser

Dante looked like a crazy cock roach going from side to side.

sickening.
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post #69 of 593 (permalink) Old August 6th, 2014, 23:36
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Ze, why was Bernard a school boy before men?

He got 4 balls on first half passed to him. 2 he set the only good attacks we had in first half, before 5 minutes (one to Maicon, other to fernandinho). the other 2 were one of those Luiz long balls who went straight to the bench and the other a desperate kick from JC for bernard to out jump a german player.

It is that simple, there is no game to bernard whatsoever to we even worry about how he played or how he was "thinking" inside. But for sure, the players crumbling down due the pressure were Hulk, Luiz, Fernandinho... This is the only thing we can say.

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post #70 of 593 (permalink) Old August 6th, 2014, 23:58
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He was terrible.

my gf, who knows nothing of football, said 2 days before the game that he looked nervous in the press conference.... i agreed with her.

then in the game he looked like a little kid in the park.

anyway, it was not his fault. it was the fault of who put him there.

we were awful, the whole team was simply a disgrace to the shirt and the tradition.

played like losers and already entered the pitch defeated.

now its pick up the broken glass and reshape. get some of these players and build a proper core, and never have the likes of julio chester, daniel alves ever wear a brazil shirt again
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post #71 of 593 (permalink) Old August 7th, 2014, 16:32
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now its pick up the broken glass and reshape. get some of these players and build a proper core, and never have the likes of julio chester, daniel alves ever wear a brazil shirt again
^ Im not expecting any nice suprises from Dunga.

Hell prob end up calling most of the Scolari squad anyway. Imagine if he calls up Dani alves and Hulk lol. And he doesnt call up Coutinho now that would be seriously troubling.

Id like to see Ganso in the midfield actually.

------------------------------????--------------------------
Mario fernandez-----TS-------------???------------Alex Telles/F. luiz
------------------------L.Gustavo----------------------
------Willian/Goulart-----------Ganso-----------Coutinho---------
--------------Lucas/Firmino--------Neymar
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post #72 of 593 (permalink) Old August 7th, 2014, 16:56
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Mario Fernandez, Alex Telles and Firmino shouldn't be considered. And Ganso is playing nothing at all.

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post #73 of 593 (permalink) Old August 7th, 2014, 17:56
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I think I understand what you mean JCamilo, Maybe Firmino could be given a try for a game or 2?

But I would like to see Brasil try with a creative midfield and defensive side backs.

The 2 defensive destroyers in midfield system has failed...it simply isnt working.
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post #74 of 593 (permalink) Old August 7th, 2014, 18:15
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Why? So all players that do well in Santa Catarina, Espirito Santo, etc. should be given a chance? The Hulk fiasco ddidn't show that giving oportunities for players that have 1 or 2 good season on smaller european clubs is a trick busines? Firmino better show something for Bayern and we see it.

The 2 Defensive Destroyers didn't fail, there was only Luis Gustavo. Not that I like the idea, but Fernandinho and Paulinho are more like second dms, that run after the ball, nothing like the Mauro Silva/Dunga kind of partnership.

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post #75 of 593 (permalink) Old August 7th, 2014, 19:45
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agree with Jcamilo

youngsters in ukraine and some place in the middle of nowhere , should not be considered only cause they are youngsters.

Are they actually making a difference? If no, don't bother.


Mario Fernandes has already rejected brazil call up, so he can go to hell also.


We have a strong base now, and we should use these players hurt from the 7-1. They will want to make up for such a disaster. in 1990 happened a disaster and that group came back very well. same thing should happen now.

Next world cup, we will come silently and hopefully rip the world cup apart
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post #76 of 593 (permalink) Old August 7th, 2014, 20:12
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Originally Posted by Romario11 View Post
^ Im not expecting any nice suprises from Dunga.

Hell prob end up calling most of the Scolari squad anyway. Imagine if he calls up Dani alves and Hulk lol. And he doesnt call up Coutinho now that would be seriously troubling.

Id like to see Ganso in the midfield actually.

------------------------------????--------------------------
Mario fernandez-----TS-------------???------------Alex Telles/F. luiz
------------------------L.Gustavo----------------------
------Willian/Goulart-----------Ganso-----------Coutinho---------
--------------Lucas/Firmino--------Neymar
no ganso

i think it will be something like this:

1. Rafael (Napoli)

2. Danilo (Porto) 3. Thiago Silva 4. David Luiz 6. Filipe Luis (Chelsea)

8. Paulinho 5. Luiz Gustavo

7. Dudu (Gremio) 9. Willian 11. Coutinho

10. Neymar


SUBS

12. Diego Alves (Valencia)

13. Rafael (Man Utd) 14. Gil (Corinthians) 15. Marquinhos (PSG) 16. Marcelo (Real Madrid)

18. Ramires (Chelsea) 17. Casemiro (Porto)

21. Lucas Moura (PSG) 20. Oscar (Chelsea) 23. Everton Ribeiro (Cruzeiro)

19. Gabi Gol (Santos)

Also test Giuliano from Gremio and check Ricardo Goulart (Cruzeiro)

Last edited by Ze da Fiel; August 7th, 2014 at 20:18.
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post #77 of 593 (permalink) Old August 7th, 2014, 20:13
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good base to start the work, keep the core and go changing slowly pieces that don't work.

make this core play 4 years together so we can get strong to Russia and have teh tough qualifiers.... it will be the most difficult qualifiers ever.

Chile tough
Colombia tough
paraguay tough
argentina tough
uruguay tough
ecuador tough

venezuela are starting to get tricky
bolivia away is a nightmare.

this qualifiers will be VERY TOUGH
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post #78 of 593 (permalink) Old August 7th, 2014, 21:42
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A good thing: there wont be games of Brasileirão on the same days of Brazil games. (Not sure if all friendlies or just classificatory).

However, still no room to stop the league during Copa America.

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post #79 of 593 (permalink) Old August 7th, 2014, 21:45
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did you like that team Jcam?

and the qualifiers start in september next year, so its not exactly time to make a whole revolution on the team with youngters taht can only cut in the ukranian leaguethat is really far away and nobody cares about the league.
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post #80 of 593 (permalink) Old August 7th, 2014, 22:06
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You must stop your birra with Bernard, man. He made r10 run, the midget has what is needed on him. Just in a small package

Anyways, it is soon. Most players didnt started yet.

The keepers: Victor is playing better than Diego, tbh, but no reason to not consider Diego. Rafael and Neto are the good young guys indeed. I will add to keep an eye on Marcelo Grohe (Gremio), still on 27 and it was a huge mistake of Gremio getting Dida last year. The guy was showing a great game.

The right wing, I see no reason why Marcos Rocha didn't have any real chance. He is the best of the position in brazil for awhile and he actually became more responsable defensively. I would take Rafinha ahead of Danilo.

Filipe Luis in the left would be my pick and Marcelo should be banished. If Dunga did something right in 2010 was not taking him and he is a walking problem. Lacking any defensive quality and unreliable offensively. At this point, this position can be a drama. I would look for Fabricio (Inter) and see if he will improve. Carlinhos (Fluminense) is a normal player, but he did very good leagues in the last years.

In defense: There is no reason to put the burden on Thiago and Luiz, so they would continue. Marquinhos as a bench player is out, in my opinion. Gil is a good player, he can be in the group, as long Rever or Dedé cannot resolve their problems (Rever injuried and Dede discovering he is not the myth). Doria still a promissing CB, still a lot to develop, he must be considered yet.

DMs and Volantes: Luis Gustavo stays. Paulinho must play. Simple as that. If he still just a irregular player for Spurs, he is out. Casemiro is an unreliable player. If he do something for 2,3 years we consider him. Ramires is ok. Cruzeiro's Lucas Silva must be considered.

Offensive mids: Oscar, Coutinho, ok. William, also, albeit, like I said to those crazy for eastern europe, he is not a craque, but strong and more offensive ramires. Bernard only if he returns his form. Everton Ribeiro deserves his first chances indeed. Goulart is a Hulk kind of player - he is in shape. If he continues, I see why not but beware, he will end receiving the same kind of critic Paulo Sergio, Julio Baptista, Hulk get. Dudu is too soon, Luan is gremio more promissing youngster. Lucas? As long he is a bench in the French league? No way. We must watch out those players from Atletico-Pr. They keep with a bunch youngsters up front that are fast and skilled. Last year Marcelo, this year Douglas Coutinho. And lots of players that left Vasco (such as Mosquito) youth divisions ended there. We know they always had a good youth division but sell the players fast to europe and we have good potential lost. But we must watch them close.

Gabigol has some potential, but he must show it at national level. But i see no problem for now.

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