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post #1 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 20:23 Thread Starter
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Ideas for the 12-13 Season

Post any suggestions for changes to the rules/gameplay for the new season.

I did wonder if we should remove the requirement to have 23 players in your squad, and instead let managers sign as many or as few as they want to within their budget.
If someone wants to sign 18 players and hope for a bit of luck with injuries then they can, if someone else wants to spread their money out and look for strength in depth then they can. It would give managers another degree of freedom with their budgets, and might balance teams out a little; if you miss out on a big name striker, you'd have the option to spend the same money on three or four cheaper forwards and rotate them based on form and fixtures.

The other area I think is the contracts. We need to have a system in place that allows managers to pick up players on the cheap, but doesn't allow them to hold onto players forever without paying what they're worth. As is the case in the real world.
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post #2 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 20:35
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Originally Posted by Ghost World View Post
Post any suggestions for changes to the rules/gameplay for the new season.

I did wonder if we should remove the requirement to have 23 players in your squad, and instead let managers sign as many or as few as they want to within their budget.
If someone wants to sign 18 players and hope for a bit of luck with injuries then they can, if someone else wants to spread their money out and look for strength in depth then they can. It would give managers another degree of freedom with their budgets, and might balance teams out a little; if you miss out on a big name striker, you'd have the option to spend the same money on three or four cheaper forwards and rotate them based on form and fixtures.

The other area I think is the contracts. We need to have a system in place that allows managers to pick up players on the cheap, but doesn't allow them to hold onto players forever without paying what they're worth. As is the case in the real world.
There should be a minimum number at least. 11+7 subs.

I think the current system where you can offer contracts in the last 6 months of the deal is pretty good.

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post #3 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 21:03
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I have a few suggestions/ideas. It's a long post, but I think they're all really easy and pretty clear:

Rewards System

I was going to suggest something, but then I read it again and noticed the 1 million per point part. Still it might make sense to make it like the real PL, or at least as I think I understand it. So right now you have prize money for the top 3 sides at the end of the season. As the real life PL is currently set up, everyone gets money. I think it's from the TV deal, but whatever. Anyway, it would go something like this:

1st place gets 24 million
2nd place gets 22 million
3rd place gets 20 million
4th place gets 18 million
...
12th place gets 2 million

You can adjust the values (1st place starts at 12 million, or 26 million or 48 million, whatever), but the premise would be the same. Now you could add 5 million to the winner to reward them, but the rest would be the same.

Why? Well this would promote parity more. Winners still get rewarded, but you don't have the same clubs benefitting over time (which could very well happen in the current system, but I haven't followed your league so I don't know.


Draft

Not what you're thinking. This would be like the XT Liga draft setup. At the start of the transfer campaign you would have a three round draft. Round 1 would have the 12th, 11th, 10th and 9th placed teams drafting against one another, Round 2 would have the 8th, 7th, 6th and 5th placed teams drafting against one another and Round 3 would have the 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 1st placed teams drafting against one another. They "draft" against one another by making private bids for players who are in the real life PL but who are not assigned to an TXPL team yet. So this could be a real life signing who was just brought to the league, a player from a Championship side who just got promoted or a player who just isn't under contract with an XTPL side.

Why? Again, this promotes parity. It's also an interesting twist to the game. You could end up with a great player or no one.


Ability to raise the salary cap

Another rule from the XT Liga. Each manager would have the ability to raise his team's salary cap at any time. Of course they'd have to pay for it and the price would get more expensive the more they do it. For example everyone starts the game with a salary cap of 50 million. If they want to raise their salary cap to 55 million, they can by paying 50 million of their transfer funds. Then if they want to raise it to 60 million, they would have to pay 100 million from their transfer funds. If they want to go a step further and raise it to 65 million, they would have to pay 150 million out of their transfer fund. So it would cost them 300 million to raise their salary cap to 65 million.

Why? Well this would be a counter to all the parity. A higher salary cap would be an advantage, but it would be really expensive. It adds an easy to track and easy to understand level of strategy to the game.


Loans

The club loaning any player, IE they are taking that player on loan from another club, must pay that player's entire salary. So if the salary is 5 million for the entire season and the player is on loan for the entire season, then the club getting the player on loan will have to pay the full 5 million. If it's only half a season, then it'd be 2.5 million. No loans where the clubs split the salary. Now the club getting the player can pay a fee on top of the wages to get that player on loan. IE club A has Messi and club B wants him on loan for the back half of the season. Club A doesn't want to sell, but it's in last place so it figures "I could make money off this deal" and they agree a half a season loan for 50 million (transfer funds) and half of Messi's wages.

Why? In my experience with XT Liga there were some crazy loan deals regarding wages which were tough to track.


Bosmans

I guess this is more of question, but if you sign a Bosman player can you be over your budget in the coming Summer? In XT Liga you could sign a Bosman in the February window that would put you over budget come Summer, but you had a week before the Summer window where you release players and at the end of that week you had to be within budget.


Salary Cap

You must respect the salary cap at all times, depending what you say about Bosmans of course. Otherwise the cap must be respected at all times. For example, say Club A decides to renew Messi. Club B wants him and loans out a player to make room. In the meantime Club B is bidding for Messi. 24 hours passes and Club B wins Messi and Messi fits in the salary cap that window. However Club B's player out on loan will return in the Summer and put Club B over the salary cap. In that instance Club B should NOT get Messi and still has the player out on loan.

Why? In my experience you had managers going over the salary cap in similar instances and citing the Bosman case when the players weren't Bosmans. IE they went over the cap. Of course that only applied to certain players while everyone else had to respect the cap and I wouldn't expect that here, but I think the more specific the rules the better.



======================================



Personally I like the options of the prize money and raising the salary cap balancing out against one another. I'm not too fussed over the draft, but it would promote parity and help in making the league more competitive. Of course it wouldn't start until next year. The rest are just rule ideas or me asking for clarification. Long story short the more set in the stone the rules the less likely they are to be broken.

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post #4 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 21:06
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I'm not fussed over squad size so long as it's not something like 18 players or less. I would like the ability to sign at least 23 players. I think a 23 or 25 player squad would be best and make GW's job easier so you he doesn't have to deal with 33 man sized squads or something. Again, set in stone so it's easier.

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Originally Posted by Ghost World View Post

The other area I think is the contracts. We need to have a system in place that allows managers to pick up players on the cheap, but doesn't allow them to hold onto players forever without paying what they're worth. As is the case in the real world.
Can you elaborate on this?

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post #5 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 21:19
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Question:

Say I have Ibra and I want to give him a new contract. I offer him a contract. Then Club B offers a better contract, then Club C a better contract still. Can I still make another offer, a better offer than Club C's offer?

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post #6 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 21:20
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I think you only have to match. He's yours to start with so he stays if you match any offer.

Without it gravity is just gravy.
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post #7 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 21:48
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I think you only have to match. He's yours to start with so he stays if you match any offer.
Cool. I was more asking do you have the option of matching or is your first renewal offer the only shot you have.

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post #8 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 23:32 Thread Starter
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This is how it would work if we continued as last season:

I have a budget of £550m. This is split into a Transfer Budget (£500m) and a Wage Budget (£50m). This 10:1 ratio is always maintained.

The players you sign have a Value (which is the amount they were purchased for) and a Wage (which is 10% of their Value).

For this example, I spend £475m to populate my squad leaving me with £25m in the bank and a remaining Wage Budget of £2.5m.

One of my signings is Swansea new boy Michu, who I snap up for £2m. His wage is set at £0.2m. At that wage, I can only offer him a 1 year deal.
After some impressive performances in the first half of the season, there's interest from other clubs. TGO (rock bottom at Xmas) offers me £5m. I'm free to accept or reject this bid, but his Market Value has been set at £5m. In other words, Michu knows that he's worth £5m and he will bear this in mind when I offer him a new contract.

And I do want to extend his contract. Because I rejected a bid of £5m (which would have given him a wage of £0.5m) I have to increase his wage to at least £0.5m.
He will accept that contract after 24 hours, but in that 24 hour period other managers can make transfer bids. R10! makes a bid of £12m. Again, I'm free to accept or reject any bids that are made, but the bids have an affect on Michu's wage demands. He now knows he's worth £12m, so my offer has to increase to £1.2m.
My third option is to withdraw my offer and leave him on his current deal. He would then leave at the end of the season.

I begrudgingly match the offer from R10!, and Michu inks a new 2-year contract worth £1.2m.
I'm left with a Transfer Budget of £25m and a Wage Budget of £1.5m. These are then automatically aligned, leaving me with a Transfer Budget of £20m and a Wage Budget of £2m.

The idea of that system is that Managers have control over their players, but they can't lock good players into low-wage contracts.

Personally I think it's a good system, but as I've just demonstrated it's not as simple as it could be.
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post #9 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 23:34 Thread Starter
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Question:

Say I have Ibra and I want to give him a new contract. I offer him a contract. Then Club B offers a better contract, then Club C a better contract still. Can I still make another offer, a better offer than Club C's offer?
In short, you have to match the best offer available. But these "offers" from other clubs are transfer bids, not contract offers.

Also, you can accept any bid that you want to. If you don't want to sell to the highest bidder (because it's a title rival, or you just don't like them) you can accept a lower offer.
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post #10 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 23:35
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550million? Are we pretending to be Arab or Russian billionaires?
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post #11 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 23:43
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Oh, this is bollocks.

Just have a draft and then a budget. Complicating as a mother fucker. We're not all 15 anymore. I seriously don't have the time, and I doubt many others do. JFC.

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post #12 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 23:45
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This complicated contract stuff is why I signed up for this league (though I only get half of its potential so far hehe) Because its the main thing thats different from Serie A league I am in too (I hope my two teams dont face eachother in Europe, Pozzo style ).

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post #13 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 23:45
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GW, mate, why do you want to complicate your life so much?! You didn't give a shit last year, why now?

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post #14 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 23:47
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This complicated contract stuff is why I signed up for this league (though I only get half of its potential so far hehe) Because its the main thing thats different from Serie A league I am in too (I hope my two teams dont face eachother in Europe, Pozzo style ).
Get a life/girlfriend/intercourse/wank.

Without it gravity is just gravy.
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post #15 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 23:54
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This is how it would work if we continued as last season:

I have a budget of £550m. This is split into a Transfer Budget (£500m) and a Wage Budget (£50m). This 10:1 ratio is always maintained.

The players you sign have a Value (which is the amount they were purchased for) and a Wage (which is 10% of their Value).

For this example, I spend £475m to populate my squad leaving me with £25m in the bank and a remaining Wage Budget of £2.5m.

One of my signings is Swansea new boy Michu, who I snap up for £2m. His wage is set at £0.2m. At that wage, I can only offer him a 1 year deal.
After some impressive performances in the first half of the season, there's interest from other clubs. TGO (rock bottom at Xmas) offers me £5m. I'm free to accept or reject this bid, but his Market Value has been set at £5m. In other words, Michu knows that he's worth £5m and he will bear this in mind when I offer him a new contract.

And I do want to extend his contract. Because I rejected a bid of £5m (which would have given him a wage of £0.5m) I have to increase his wage to at least £0.5m.
He will accept that contract after 24 hours, but in that 24 hour period other managers can make transfer bids. R10! makes a bid of £12m. Again, I'm free to accept or reject any bids that are made, but the bids have an affect on Michu's wage demands. He now knows he's worth £12m, so my offer has to increase to £1.2m.
My third option is to withdraw my offer and leave him on his current deal. He would then leave at the end of the season.

I begrudgingly match the offer from R10!, and Michu inks a new 2-year contract worth £1.2m.
I'm left with a Transfer Budget of £25m and a Wage Budget of £1.5m. These are then automatically aligned, leaving me with a Transfer Budget of £20m and a Wage Budget of £2m.

The idea of that system is that Managers have control over their players, but they can't lock good players into low-wage contracts.

Personally I think it's a good system, but as I've just demonstrated it's not as simple as it could be.
I get it all, but I don't get how the 10:1 ratio is ALWAYS maintained. I mean if I private bid for a player who just joined the PL in real life and thus isn't on anyone's roster, I wouldn't pay a transfer fee. Also, say I have Messi and another team wants him. Messi's on a 3 year contract for 10 million a year. They offer me 200 million in a straight up transfer. That would then totally change the 10:1 ratio.

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post #16 of 58 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 23:58
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Oh, this is bollocks.

Just have a draft and then a budget. Complicating as a mother fucker. We're not all 15 anymore. I seriously don't have the time, and I doubt many others do. JFC.
I assuming we restart from scratch, or re"draft" if you will, I think the private bidding round followed by public bidding is the best option. A draft would take too long. I could see starting with 500 million for transfers and 50 million for wages. We'd pay out of the transfer budget during the re"drafting" or private bidding and public bidding phases. IMO that would work out best.

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post #17 of 58 (permalink) Old August 19th, 2012, 00:02
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Get a life/girlfriend/intercourse/wank.






Nah seriously, why did you sign up if you want to change how its set up entirely? Whatever GW does is fine with me, those who put in the work of actually doing the organizing should have the final say.

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post #18 of 58 (permalink) Old August 19th, 2012, 00:05 Thread Starter
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I get it all, but I don't get how the 10:1 ratio is ALWAYS maintained. I mean if I private bid for a player who just joined the PL in real life and thus isn't on anyone's roster, I wouldn't pay a transfer fee.
Yes you would. There's no such thing as a "free transfer" in the XTPL. You would pay a transfer fee, it just wouldn't go to another player.

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Also, say I have Messi and another team wants him. Messi's on a 3 year contract for 10 million a year. They offer me 200 million in a straight up transfer. That would then totally change the 10:1 ratio.
In that example your Transfer Budget would increase by £200m and you Wage Budget would increase by £10m (because that's Messi's wage).

Some of your transfer budget would be used to balance it out.

So if you had nothing in the bank when you made the deal, you would end up with £190m in your Transfer Budget and £19m in your Wage Budget. Roughly.

And going the other way, if you sold Messi for £50m you would end up with a transfer budget of c.£54m because of the saving in your wage bill.
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post #19 of 58 (permalink) Old August 19th, 2012, 00:10
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Yes you would. There's no such thing as a "free transfer" in the XTPL. You would pay a transfer fee, it just wouldn't go to another player.
Gotcha. XT Liga might have been like that too, I forget.

Quote:
In that example your Transfer Budget would increase by £200m and you Wage Budget would increase by £10m (because that's Messi's wage).

Some of your transfer budget would be used to balance it out.

So if you had nothing in the bank when you made the deal, you would end up with £190m in your Transfer Budget and £19m in your Wage Budget. Roughly.

And going the other way, if you sold Messi for £50m you would end up with a transfer budget of c.£54m because of the saving in your wage bill.
So you mean I would just lose the extra money?

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post #20 of 58 (permalink) Old August 22nd, 2012, 01:42
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I have a few suggestions/ideas. It's a long post, but I think they're all really easy and pretty clear:

Rewards System

I was going to suggest something, but then I read it again and noticed the 1 million per point part. Still it might make sense to make it like the real PL, or at least as I think I understand it. So right now you have prize money for the top 3 sides at the end of the season. As the real life PL is currently set up, everyone gets money. I think it's from the TV deal, but whatever. Anyway, it would go something like this:

1st place gets 24 million
2nd place gets 22 million
3rd place gets 20 million
4th place gets 18 million
...
12th place gets 2 million

You can adjust the values (1st place starts at 12 million, or 26 million or 48 million, whatever), but the premise would be the same. Now you could add 5 million to the winner to reward them, but the rest would be the same.

Why? Well this would promote parity more. Winners still get rewarded, but you don't have the same clubs benefitting over time (which could very well happen in the current system, but I haven't followed your league so I don't know.


Draft

Not what you're thinking. This would be like the XT Liga draft setup. At the start of the transfer campaign you would have a three round draft. Round 1 would have the 12th, 11th, 10th and 9th placed teams drafting against one another, Round 2 would have the 8th, 7th, 6th and 5th placed teams drafting against one another and Round 3 would have the 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 1st placed teams drafting against one another. They "draft" against one another by making private bids for players who are in the real life PL but who are not assigned to an TXPL team yet. So this could be a real life signing who was just brought to the league, a player from a Championship side who just got promoted or a player who just isn't under contract with an XTPL side.

Why? Again, this promotes parity. It's also an interesting twist to the game. You could end up with a great player or no one.


Ability to raise the salary cap

Another rule from the XT Liga. Each manager would have the ability to raise his team's salary cap at any time. Of course they'd have to pay for it and the price would get more expensive the more they do it. For example everyone starts the game with a salary cap of 50 million. If they want to raise their salary cap to 55 million, they can by paying 50 million of their transfer funds. Then if they want to raise it to 60 million, they would have to pay 100 million from their transfer funds. If they want to go a step further and raise it to 65 million, they would have to pay 150 million out of their transfer fund. So it would cost them 300 million to raise their salary cap to 65 million.

Why? Well this would be a counter to all the parity. A higher salary cap would be an advantage, but it would be really expensive. It adds an easy to track and easy to understand level of strategy to the game.


Loans

The club loaning any player, IE they are taking that player on loan from another club, must pay that player's entire salary. So if the salary is 5 million for the entire season and the player is on loan for the entire season, then the club getting the player on loan will have to pay the full 5 million. If it's only half a season, then it'd be 2.5 million. No loans where the clubs split the salary. Now the club getting the player can pay a fee on top of the wages to get that player on loan. IE club A has Messi and club B wants him on loan for the back half of the season. Club A doesn't want to sell, but it's in last place so it figures "I could make money off this deal" and they agree a half a season loan for 50 million (transfer funds) and half of Messi's wages.

Why? In my experience with XT Liga there were some crazy loan deals regarding wages which were tough to track.


Bosmans

I guess this is more of question, but if you sign a Bosman player can you be over your budget in the coming Summer? In XT Liga you could sign a Bosman in the February window that would put you over budget come Summer, but you had a week before the Summer window where you release players and at the end of that week you had to be within budget.


Salary Cap

You must respect the salary cap at all times, depending what you say about Bosmans of course. Otherwise the cap must be respected at all times. For example, say Club A decides to renew Messi. Club B wants him and loans out a player to make room. In the meantime Club B is bidding for Messi. 24 hours passes and Club B wins Messi and Messi fits in the salary cap that window. However Club B's player out on loan will return in the Summer and put Club B over the salary cap. In that instance Club B should NOT get Messi and still has the player out on loan.

Why? In my experience you had managers going over the salary cap in similar instances and citing the Bosman case when the players weren't Bosmans. IE they went over the cap. Of course that only applied to certain players while everyone else had to respect the cap and I wouldn't expect that here, but I think the more specific the rules the better.



======================================



Personally I like the options of the prize money and raising the salary cap balancing out against one another. I'm not too fussed over the draft, but it would promote parity and help in making the league more competitive. Of course it wouldn't start until next year. The rest are just rule ideas or me asking for clarification. Long story short the more set in the stone the rules the less likely they are to be broken.
So guys, what are we thinking?

Rewards System: Not a big deal, but IMO it makes a lot of sense and it should be easy to add the money to the budgets. Add x amount for the winner, like 6 million to round it to 30 million as their "bonus" for winning it all. I really think this would be a good change.

Draft: I could care less about this. I just think it adds a fun detail and should help ensure more parity. I mean say it happened this Summer, the bottom four from last season could end up with Podolski, Kagawa, Hazard and Giroud. Again, I could care less, but it helps with parity and could be fun as each set of 4 managers would/could be bidding against one another.

Ability to raise your salary cap: Really like this idea, especially if we do the prize money change and start with a draft. IMO they all play into each other well. Adds a whole new level of strategy and would be easy to do with the budgets and track because once it's paid then it's permanent.

Loans and Salary Cap: I think those are all just making the rules more clear than they already are.

NEW IDEA - Contracts for older players: So they had just started this when I was in XT Liga and we tinkered with it the Summer before the season I played. Basically when you offer a guy a new contract, you must offer a better deal than they already have, right? IE if Messi is on 10m a year in the final year of his contract, you have to offer him at least 10.05m a year for 3 years with your new offer. Well if the player is 32 years old or older when you're offering the new deal, all you'd have to do is offer him more than what his contract is currently worth. IE say you have Puyol and he's on 6m in the last year of his contract. Well you would go as low as 2.05m a year for 3 years in a new contract because 6.15m is more than 6m and you'd get him so long as no one else did better than 2.05m for 3 years.

Why? Well it's another interesting strategic aspect to the game really.



Finally, I really think the wage budget x 10 always = your transfer budget should be changed. I mean say you've got Messi and you get an offer for 300 million and you've only got 10 million left in your wage budget after selling him. Then you lose 200 million. Makes no sense. Also, and I want to be clear that I'm not an excel guy really, it shouldn't be any harder to track.

"Sóm més que un club!"
.BLAUGRANA. is offline  
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