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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old August 15th, 2010, 22:29 Thread Starter
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Tension cracking at Haifa?

It wasn`t so much talked this week due to the Tel Aviv derby in the Toto Cup and their respective games in Europe in the next couple of days, but Maccabi Haifa captain Yaniv Katan had a bad discussion with coach Elisha Levy during practice three days ago.
Katan directed hard words towards Levy who responded and the midfielder went to complain directly with Haifa boss Yaakov Shachar.
Despite the good win in the derby over Hapoel Haifa 3-0, Levy still commented over the issue saying he was dissapointed with Katan`s behaviour and that he made a mistake.

Is tension cracking at Haifa? Is this a sign of what the team will be this season?
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old August 15th, 2010, 23:15
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This was easy to predict. Its all due to them crashing out of Europe so soon and to a team they shouldn't have lost to, and in the 90th minute. Levy's accomplishments look less impressive than a year ago. His real great achievement was to beat Salzburg. But the teams performance in the group stage was awful and embarrassing. and although they dominated the league for 85% of the season, they ran out of gas at the end. On top of that they were knocked out by Minsk.

I don't think they will collapse. They will still fight for the championship but I don't think Levy will be around much longer. He might finish this season but I don't think he will be the coach next season.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old August 15th, 2010, 23:41 Thread Starter
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This was easy to predict. Its all due to them crashing out of Europe so soon and to a team they shouldn't have lost to, and in the 90th minute. Levy's accomplishments look less impressive than a year ago. His real great achievement was to beat Salzburg. But the teams performance in the group stage was awful and embarrassing. and although they dominated the league for 85% of the season, they ran out of gas at the end. On top of that they were knocked out by Minsk.

I don't think they will collapse. They will still fight for the championship but I don't think Levy will be around much longer. He might finish this season but I don't think he will be the coach next season.
Yeah guess we will enter in a discussion we ended up having in another thread about this issue. I agree Elisha Levy´s days at Haifa are counted and it will probably be at the end of this season unless they change drastically, play well and take the title MAYBE this could keep him. He doesn`t have the sympathy from the fans (guess no coach has sympathy at Haifa) and as you said the team had a very poor performance at the Champions League Group Stage and let the title slip.

I believe critics are too harsh. I mean the team is weaker this season, so he won`t have the best material to work with in order to achieve the goals they aimed to. Secondly, he got a very tough group in the Champions League with Juventus, Bayern and Bordeaux, it wouldn`t be easy, so it is understandable. For me the fact they did already qualify was a great achievement. The title slipped because of the stupid kizuz system, something not professional. So critics are too harsh IMO.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old August 16th, 2010, 01:22
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I have faith in Elisha.. I think he's the best coach in Israel and he will stable that ship slowly and get back to track.

And saying Haifa preformences in the Champions league is awfull and embrassing makes me wonder if you watched the games really..

The final result was embarassing indeed, no goals and no points is an embarassment anyway you look at it.

But Haifa played as equals in most of her games and was right in the games, and played very good football.

Don't waste your time on jealously; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind.

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old August 16th, 2010, 01:59
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I think we can all agree, that coaching at Haifa these days is the most prestigious and pressure filled position in Israel. The club is used to success and doesn't stand for mediocrity,(even if sometimes they have mediocre players ) and the knockout by Minsk wasn't up to their standards even though, they lost both of their starting central defenders leading goalscorer and key midfielder. Haifa has won six titles in the last ten years. so they will be back with or without Elisha. If he wins the title this season it will be an even more spectacular accomplishment than his first. Simply because he will be going up against two very talented Tel-Aviv teams. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that Elisha Levy isn't going anywhere. He is one of the best coaches in Ligat Ha'al. Who would Haifa replace him with??? As for Yaniv Katan, one of the more talented players in Israel's league over the past ten years, but also one of the most inconsistent. So if he should be blaming anyone for Haifa's loss to Minsk, it should be himself. He is the captain, when did he step up??
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old August 16th, 2010, 03:18 Thread Starter
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I have faith in Elisha.. I think he's the best coach in Israel and he will stable that ship slowly and get back to track.

And saying Haifa preformences in the Champions league is awfull and embrassing makes me wonder if you watched the games really..

The final result was embarassing indeed, no goals and no points is an embarassment anyway you look at it.

But Haifa played as equals in most of her games and was right in the games, and played very good football.
Or, are you refering to me? I said they were poor because of their hype and expectations after qualifying to the Group Stages and of course their previous campaign in which they played very well. But I agree they had decent displays and had good opportunities to have better results.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old August 16th, 2010, 03:25 Thread Starter
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I think we can all agree, that coaching at Haifa these days is the most prestigious and pressure filled position in Israel. The club is used to success and doesn't stand for mediocrity,(even if sometimes they have mediocre players ) and the knockout by Minsk wasn't up to their standards even though, they lost both of their starting central defenders leading goalscorer and key midfielder. Haifa has won six titles in the last ten years. so they will be back with or without Elisha. If he wins the title this season it will be an even more spectacular accomplishment than his first. Simply because he will be going up against two very talented Tel-Aviv teams. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that Elisha Levy isn't going anywhere. He is one of the best coaches in Ligat Ha'al. Who would Haifa replace him with??? As for Yaniv Katan, one of the more talented players in Israel's league over the past ten years, but also one of the most inconsistent. So if he should be blaming anyone for Haifa's loss to Minsk, it should be himself. He is the captain, when did he step up??
I agree with you. We can`t count down Haifa from the title as they have been the most succesful team in Israel for the last 20 years. Even if they look bad right now and with evident tensions in the squad they still strong and have good organization.

As for Katan I completely agree with you. He as captain should lead the team to tranqulity and not to create internal problems. Guess the players are too close to the fans in Israel and he is simply listening to them (the ones who want Elisha out) and acting like an amateur.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old August 16th, 2010, 11:45
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Or, are you refering to me? I said they were poor because of their hype and expectations after qualifying to the Group Stages and of course their previous campaign in which they played very well. But I agree they had decent displays and had good opportunities to have better results.
No Daniel I ment in response to daydreamers post before...again I agree the final results were embarassing, but like you said now Daniel, the actuall games and preformence in the games themselfs were mostly very good, just unlucky.


And you know guys, I mean Haifa fans and fans in Israel in general seem to forget how much Elisha has done and with who.

I mean look, ok now everyone says "ohh he had Biram Kiyal, ohh he had Golasa".

But before Elisha came, Biram Kiyal, Gadir, Golasa, Ali Ottman, Refaelov, Abrietman.. they were all "promise" type of players, and Elisha took them and turned them into stars.

I mean look at his lineups in the champions league last year, it was insane.. I mean try compare that lineup, and on the begining of the season when these guys were not "great players" like people see them now, but as youngsters who get thier chance, and understand how big his accomplishment was.(and thats without mentioning that if 2-3 things that happened by luck in the last minutes of games like Hapoel scoring, or Minsk scoring in the 92 minutes of the game, everyone would worship Elisha.)

Like Golasa12 said.. the guy got his holding midfielder, his top goalscorer, and both his CBs sold in 1 summer - and all of that after loosing the championship the way they did last year -.. what did everyone expect, that they'll be better?.. so they had a bit of bad luck, but like I said, I have trust they will go back on track.. people need to remember how much young players they're playing.

Don't waste your time on jealously; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind.

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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old August 17th, 2010, 03:14 Thread Starter
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No Daniel I ment in response to daydreamers post before...again I agree the final results were embarassing, but like you said now Daniel, the actuall games and preformence in the games themselfs were mostly very good, just unlucky.
Ok understood.


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And you know guys, I mean Haifa fans and fans in Israel in general seem to forget how much Elisha has done and with who.

I mean look, ok now everyone says "ohh he had Biram Kiyal, ohh he had Golasa".

But before Elisha came, Biram Kiyal, Gadir, Golasa, Ali Ottman, Refaelov, Abrietman.. they were all "promise" type of players, and Elisha took them and turned them into stars.

I mean look at his lineups in the champions league last year, it was insane.. I mean try compare that lineup, and on the begining of the season when these guys were not "great players" like people see them now, but as youngsters who get thier chance, and understand how big his accomplishment was.(and thats without mentioning that if 2-3 things that happened by luck in the last minutes of games like Hapoel scoring, or Minsk scoring in the 92 minutes of the game, everyone would worship Elisha.)

Like Golasa12 said.. the guy got his holding midfielder, his top goalscorer, and both his CBs sold in 1 summer - and all of that after loosing the championship the way they did last year -.. what did everyone expect, that they'll be better?.. so they had a bit of bad luck, but like I said, I have trust they will go back on track.. people need to remember how much young players they're playing.
Yes I agree about the work with youngsters, indeed he knows how to prepare players and make them produce their best. Golasa and Kiyal are a big example of that. Golasa was pushed into the starting lineup little by little and not in a hurry pressuring him. With Kiyal it was a fantastic work. The player usually had a tough temperament and had 5 minutes of craziness during games that eventually saw him receive silly cards or commit fould that resulted in dangerous plays for the opponents. He is in every sense a better player right now and it surprises me why Luis Fernandez didn`t call him up.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old August 26th, 2010, 21:45
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The more I think about it Levy should get fired in the winter, even if they are in first place, and they should bring in a coach who coaches well in Europe. Give the new coach half a season to learn about the team and the players.

In their last 8 European matches Haifa has 1 win and 7 losses. If Gutman and Mizrachi (to a lesser extent) can beat good teams in Europe and advance then why can't Levy?
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old August 27th, 2010, 15:15 Thread Starter
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It is tough to fire a coach in the middle of the season when the demand from everyone surrounding the club is the title.

If they do this they will be saying "We admit we are not in the Tel Avivians level at the moment and we aren`t title contenders".
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old August 27th, 2010, 16:55
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The more I think about it Levy should get fired in the winter, even if they are in first place, and they should bring in a coach who coaches well in Europe. Give the new coach half a season to learn about the team and the players.

In their last 8 European matches Haifa has 1 win and 7 losses. If Gutman and Mizrachi (to a lesser extent) can beat good teams in Europe and advance then why can't Levy?
who say we will make Europe (whether he is fired or not).

For Qualification, we need to do something next season. The only decent performance we have comes off the books after 2011/2012. If we do not have a good european season, they will have the same issue Beitar and Tel aviv have, lower seeds and having to play tougher opponents.

For starters, we need to make all our transfers during the winter window, so we can have 6 months of pt to make sure all the players gel. Outside of the home game against Bordeuax and the road game against Minsk, I thought Haifa played well, so I will give Levy the benefit of the doubt, but if he fails next sure, he has to be canned immediately.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old August 28th, 2010, 04:24 Thread Starter
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There is a question we should all make before judging a coach? What do you understand by achievement or better saying what do you understand by a good work? Results? If that is your answer than maybe you could be logical in saying that Elisha Levy should be fired if he doesn`t win the title or in a worse scenario doesn`t reach Europe.
But to be honest with you, Elisha has done a great job with the Haifa youngsters, he knew how to develop Golasa and Ghadir, to conciliate the veteran players used to stardom such as Boccoli and Katan to learn that sometimes they won`t be the key players and they will be in the bench. How managed to work Biram Kiyal´s mental game which improved drastically when Elisha landed at Haifa. He has done a good job overall and the style of work is good, developed the players. Of course results are important and is what everybody fights for, but sometimes a good work shouldn`t be ignored.
I will just tell you guys something, maybe the story would be different here today. maybe we would be talking about another Haifa campaign at the Champions League Group Stage. And Hapoel depleted and in a struggle season against Maccabi and Haifa in the league. Don`t forget that Haifa were meant to be the champions once again, but Hapoel Tel Aviv were benefited by the kizuz system. Ok, the reds had merits, they played fantastic football and had only one defeat all season long and knew how to win critical games (1-0 at Kiriat Eliezer, 2-1 at Teddy), but still Haifa were consistent all season long.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old August 30th, 2010, 13:00
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There is a question we should all make before judging a coach? What do you understand by achievement or better saying what do you understand by a good work? Results? If that is your answer than maybe you could be logical in saying that Elisha Levy should be fired if he doesn`t win the title or in a worse scenario doesn`t reach Europe.
But to be honest with you, Elisha has done a great job with the Haifa youngsters, he knew how to develop Golasa and Ghadir, to conciliate the veteran players used to stardom such as Boccoli and Katan to learn that sometimes they won`t be the key players and they will be in the bench. How managed to work Biram Kiyal´s mental game which improved drastically when Elisha landed at Haifa. He has done a good job overall and the style of work is good, developed the players. Of course results are important and is what everybody fights for, but sometimes a good work shouldn`t be ignored.
I will just tell you guys something, maybe the story would be different here today. maybe we would be talking about another Haifa campaign at the Champions League Group Stage. And Hapoel depleted and in a struggle season against Maccabi and Haifa in the league. Don`t forget that Haifa were meant to be the champions once again, but Hapoel Tel Aviv were benefited by the kizuz system. Ok, the reds had merits, they played fantastic football and had only one defeat all season long and knew how to win critical games (1-0 at Kiriat Eliezer, 2-1 at Teddy), but still Haifa were consistent all season long.
My major point was that if Haifa does produce points in the group stages next year, it will have grave consequences for qualifications. So my hope is that we will work this entire year towards producing a team that will quaify for European Group stages. We basically had a bye to the group stages and blew it.

As far a being the HC at Haifa, there are expectations that are greater that that of most team. Grooming players is a huge part of the job, but this isn't Ashdod, winning is expected. Winning the championship isn't manditory, but you have to think qualifying for Europe is a minimum requirement. Winning silverware or qualiying for Europen group stages at least every other year should be as well. I am not saying Levy isn't a good coach. It is just so far this year he has failed to meet expectations.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old August 31st, 2010, 05:09 Thread Starter
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My major point was that if Haifa does produce points in the group stages next year, it will have grave consequences for qualifications. So my hope is that we will work this entire year towards producing a team that will quaify for European Group stages. We basically had a bye to the group stages and blew it.

As far a being the HC at Haifa, there are expectations that are greater that that of most team. Grooming players is a huge part of the job, but this isn't Ashdod, winning is expected. Winning the championship isn't manditory, but you have to think qualifying for Europe is a minimum requirement. Winning silverware or qualiying for Europen group stages at least every other year should be as well. I am not saying Levy isn't a good coach. It is just so far this year he has failed to meet expectations.
I understand your point of view and I agree that isn`t the same expectations and pressure with SC Ashdod (to use your example) comparing with Maccabi Haifa.
IMO there should be a balance of the type of work produced and results, Eisha is doing a good work, he won a title with Haifa, qualified them to the Champions League last season. He missed the title only because of the kizuz (forgive my insistence in this issue, but we all know it is true and I am one of the critics of this system) and was eliminated this season in Europe in injury time. So it is kind of harsh with him.

I agree that losing at this stage to Dinamo Minsk wasn`t indeed expected. Haifa has a better team and should have won by more in the first leg. But I ask you, does Elisha have all the blame that the players simply collpased in the second half in Minsk? I mean they won the first leg 1-0, scored an away goal first and managed to concede three? Guess the players are to blame here and not Elisha. Katan who was one of the players that had public discussions with the coach should have come and instead of criticizing him, should have used his leadership and captain status to make things calmer.

Yaakov Shachar always looks on the long term issue differently from the vast majority of other Israeli clubs and that is why he has built the msot successful Israeli team from the past 20 years.
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old September 2nd, 2010, 14:47 Thread Starter
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Maccabi Haifa rightback Eyal Meshumar and assistant coach Georgi Drasiliya had a very harsh discussion today that almost ended in a physical approach. Tension has still not leveled down at the club apparently.
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