Lior Refaelov: Overrated or underestimated? - Xtratime Community
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old May 19th, 2010, 21:53 Thread Starter
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Lior Refaelov: Overrated or underestimated?

I saw some games of Maccabi Haifa this season and I observed that Lior Refaelov was really underestimated by Elisha Levy. IMO he is one of the best talents in our league, very technical player, that has excellent dribbling and passing, score goals, give assists and create opportunities for the teammates.
On the other hand many times when recquired Refaelov failed to impress on the money time games and this has harmed him throughout his career. (He is still young though).

Is he overrated or underestimated? Does he have a chance to play in the NT under Fernandez?
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old May 20th, 2010, 00:03
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i think he does....i'm very excited with the amount of young quality midfielders we'll have for this euro's q....

Buzaglo
Rafaelov
Vermouth
Natkho
Baruchyan
Melickson
Yadin
Golasa
Assulin
Almog Cohen
Vered
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old May 20th, 2010, 03:45
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I think Rafaelov has had a good season, I think his problem has always been consistency, sometimes he'll just disappear in games or can't pass the ball straight, but hes gotten better that's for sure. However he isn't fast enough to play as a winger in a league with a level higher than Israel's. So, if he plays for the NT I wouldn't expect him to play on the wing but in a more central attacking role. I think he will always be on the fringes of the NT, because we/will have better players at his position, Buzaglo, Assulin, Sahar, Vermouth, Vered, I don't think he can compete with these players athletically..
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old May 20th, 2010, 11:13
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Not overrated.

But we all know he will end up in a team like Bnei Yehuda eventually (no offence).

I might have a strong opinion on him alrady, but I just don't see him making it bigtime.

He is a very good league player though.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old May 20th, 2010, 19:19 Thread Starter
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He is talented, without a doubt, but I guess he doesn´t know how to use it sometimes for the team.

The thing is Israeli teams and many around the world are using a 4-2-3-1 formation, with two wingers, one striker and a second top which in theory is the playmaker. The most suitable position for him IMO, would be this playmaker behind the striker, with his technique he could crat great moves and he has good finishing as well.
Like snowbozo said, he isn´t so fast to play on the wings, but on our league it is ok. The problem would be in the NT in international level.

But IMO he won´t be a wasted player like the likes of Reuven Oved or Eli Biton.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old May 25th, 2010, 23:48
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That position you talk about is filled by Yaniv Katan, who is making a great job in it if I may add, and a better choise.

Only way for him to take it to the next level is start produce more goals and assists, just like Maor Melikson did.

thats why I think he has to be in those sides such as Bnei Yehuda to count for something, but I think it will take him time to understand it and it will be too late.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old May 26th, 2010, 16:49 Thread Starter
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That position you talk about is filled by Yaniv Katan, who is making a great job in it if I may add, and a better choise.

Only way for him to take it to the next level is start produce more goals and assists, just like Maor Melikson did.

thats why I think he has to be in those sides such as Bnei Yehuda to count for something, but I think it will take him time to understand it and it will be too late.
Exactly, that is why I said it will be tough for him because he would have to sub Yaniv Katan which of course won`t happen since the latter is in excellent form with Haifa.

Let´s see how he performs today against Uruguay, Fernandez might use him well.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old June 2nd, 2010, 17:27 Thread Starter
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So Refaelov had good displays against Uruguay and Chile and probably will figure in Fernandez call ups for the qualifiers.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2011, 07:22 Thread Starter
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Have people changed their minds over Lior Refaelov? The guy is simply having a great season, is being decisive at Maccabi Haifa and now assuming a main role in the NT where he has been pivotal.

I still think people underestimate him and they without a doubt he is one of our best talents. He should be in an European league already IMO.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2011, 07:37
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I'm sure I underestimate him and do not give him alot of credit.

But I still think, that he's "ha'ham al halashim".. his ability and football is a given, can't argue with his talent, but theres still huge huge diffrence between him playing against strong prepared teams in really importent matchs, and him playing against mediocre to weak teams that he's clearly a few levels above in his pure talent.

This year he became alot more consistent aswell, and that change is a blessing.. but I still don't see it working like it should(although I surely have changed my "Bnei Yehuda" opinion after this season).. he is and always will be a great player, but he won't reach the places he can and should reach with so much talent, atleast in my opinion.

He has made progress though, gotta hand him that - he's a key player in our league on a championship contender... i'd love to give him full props, but i'm just not convinced yet sorry.. I know he can convince me and has all the tools, question is if has the character and mentality.

Don't waste your time on jealously; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind.

The race is long, and in the end - it's only with yourself.

Last edited by Stanko 05; March 27th, 2011 at 07:44.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old March 28th, 2011, 04:07 Thread Starter
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I'm sure I underestimate him and do not give him alot of credit.

But I still think, that he's "ha'ham al halashim".. his ability and football is a given, can't argue with his talent, but theres still huge huge diffrence between him playing against strong prepared teams in really importent matchs, and him playing against mediocre to weak teams that he's clearly a few levels above in his pure talent.

This year he became alot more consistent aswell, and that change is a blessing.. but I still don't see it working like it should(although I surely have changed my "Bnei Yehuda" opinion after this season).. he is and always will be a great player, but he won't reach the places he can and should reach with so much talent, atleast in my opinion.

He has made progress though, gotta hand him that - he's a key player in our league on a championship contender... i'd love to give him full props, but i'm just not convinced yet sorry.. I know he can convince me and has all the tools, question is if has the character and mentality.
Well I have slight different opinion over Refaelov. He is one of the players with most technique in our league. His dribbling skill is the best IMO and he can decide a match at any moment, this season as you say he has made progress and has taken the responsability to lead Maccabi Haifa, especially since Yaniv Katan is really far from what he used to be.

I agree he hasn`t fulfilled his potential and maybe he won`t reach higher levels due to lack of consistency, but if he ocntinues to improve he will move to Europe, maybe not in a big team, but certainly not a modest one.

His problem has always been IMO lack of objectiveness. A lot of skill and talent that wasn`t really translated in assists, goals or key attacking moves. This season it has changed and also for NT he has proved to be efficient as well. Hopefullu he continues that way.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old March 28th, 2011, 04:29
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I completely agree with how you see Refaelov, I think the same way.

In terms of pure football skills, he's definetly one of the best in our league, no doubt about that.

But what i'm saying is, against tough opposition and in the really big tests he had so far he always failed.. thats why I say he's "ha'ham al halashim".. against those weak/mediocre teams where his pure talent allows him to standout and show he's a great player(in the past he didn't even do that, but as we both agree he really improoved this season in that aspect).. but where he face players and teams who can match him when he needs to really excells he fails to do so in my opinion.

Again, he's a fantastic footballer, but I just don't think he'll manage to reach the places he can... he prooved he can improove and change this season, and i'll be glad if he prooves me wrong taking it to the next level, leading the NT and show he can have impact and play a role for a Europian side in a good league, but I still doubt he will... some due to him tending to avoid physical plays and being kinda weak - a thing that doesn't really allow him to play like he knows cause he can't dribble and get past players most times then not.. and some of it is due to him not having the mental strength in him to make it.

Don't waste your time on jealously; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind.

The race is long, and in the end - it's only with yourself.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old March 28th, 2011, 12:54 Thread Starter
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I completely agree with how you see Refaelov, I think the same way.

In terms of pure football skills, he's definetly one of the best in our league, no doubt about that.

But what i'm saying is, against tough opposition and in the really big tests he had so far he always failed.. thats why I say he's "ha'ham al halashim".. against those weak/mediocre teams where his pure talent allows him to standout and show he's a great player(in the past he didn't even do that, but as we both agree he really improoved this season in that aspect).. but where he face players and teams who can match him when he needs to really excells he fails to do so in my opinion.

Again, he's a fantastic footballer, but I just don't think he'll manage to reach the places he can... he prooved he can improove and change this season, and i'll be glad if he prooves me wrong taking it to the next level, leading the NT and show he can have impact and play a role for a Europian side in a good league, but I still doubt he will... some due to him tending to avoid physical plays and being kinda weak - a thing that doesn't really allow him to play like he knows cause he can't dribble and get past players most times then not.. and some of it is due to him not having the mental strength in him to make it.
Yeah guess we reached an agreement

Your term "ha'ham al halashim" fits well in our thoughts, that is true. IMO next season will be his great test, let´s say "when boys and men are separated", where we will find if he will stand out or become just a good Israeli league player.

But honestly speaking, in European leagues, I don´t really see him playing in many options, he needs to play in Spain, Portugal, maybe France, but in other leagues he wouldn´t have enough toughness to deal with strong physical players IMO. Maybe he will play in Belgium who knows
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old April 11th, 2011, 21:36
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Came up huge for Haifa again, goal and an assist to get the 3 points against KS, and make it 7 points ahead of Hapoel pre-kizuz.

More crow to my table please Daniel kid's on fire and really taking things on his back, long may he continue, really impressive stuff.

Don't waste your time on jealously; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind.

The race is long, and in the end - it's only with yourself.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old April 11th, 2011, 23:17 Thread Starter
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Came up huge for Haifa again, goal and an assist to get the 3 points against KS, and make it 7 points ahead of Hapoel pre-kizuz.

More crow to my table please Daniel kid's on fire and really taking things on his back, long may he continue, really impressive stuff.
Really impressive indeed. He changed the match and made very good plays (and most importantly, effective ones!).

He saved Haifa today from a defeat which would open the league once again since IMO Haifa with this 7 point (4 points with the kizuz) is with one hand in the title.

Good words from Hemed as well. A typical number 9 that for a long time we haven´t seen in Israel (I mean by Israeli product).

Last edited by berko; April 12th, 2011 at 19:07.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old April 12th, 2011, 03:52
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Haifa came back, definitely the sign of a champion,they definitely do deserve to win the league, as they have been very consistent the whole campaign and have slowly improved, if they want to qualify and make any noise in the Champions League next year, they will need a better central defender pairing as Benado and Pilavskiy arent so great, perhaps a foreign right back?
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old April 12th, 2011, 08:55
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Good words from Hemed as well. A typical number that for a lonmg time we haven´t seen in Israel (I mean by Israeli product).
Thats ma boy! it's also said now that Rangers scout was raving about him watching him play.. alot of credeit has to go to John Gregory when it comes to Hemed cause under him he just took his game to another level in terms of being a professional too.. another reason why I love the 16 team league.

Funny thing is Haifa fans still don't rate Elisha.. what a bunch of morons lol.

They ripped his team apart, sold his main midfielder, both his CBs, his top goalscorer, made him start the season with the 2nd GK while the CB he brought was an epic failore - all of this after a really hollywood-like season end when they lost the championship is such a hard way.

Yet he still manages to make it all work and get the 3 points and have a 7 points lead against a team people raved on as agruebly one of the best Israeli sides ever.. I mean sometimes you think if Haifa fans mix between Haifa and Barcelona.. who gives a fvck if it's "beautifull football" - your getting 3 points week in week out!! i'd kill to be in thier position and have Elisha as my manager.


Golasa, in rightback they're set imo.. Ottman and Mashumar are an above average RBs for our league.

A top quality CB over ageing Benado probebly, and imo they should bring Amasha in from KS and save the forgien stop for a really top class midfielder(although that new young DM looks impressive with potential)

Don't waste your time on jealously; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind.

The race is long, and in the end - it's only with yourself.

Last edited by Stanko 05; April 12th, 2011 at 18:23.
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old April 12th, 2011, 21:46 Thread Starter
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Thats ma boy! it's also said now that Rangers scout was raving about him watching him play.. alot of credeit has to go to John Gregory when it comes to Hemed cause under him he just took his game to another level in terms of being a professional too.. another reason why I love the 16 team league.

Funny thing is Haifa fans still don't rate Elisha.. what a bunch of morons lol.

They ripped his team apart, sold his main midfielder, both his CBs, his top goalscorer, made him start the season with the 2nd GK while the CB he brought was an epic failore - all of this after a really hollywood-like season end when they lost the championship is such a hard way.

Yet he still manages to make it all work and get the 3 points and have a 7 points lead against a team people raved on as agruebly one of the best Israeli sides ever.. I mean sometimes you think if Haifa fans mix between Haifa and Barcelona.. who gives a fvck if it's "beautifull football" - your getting 3 points week in week out!! i'd kill to be in thier position and have Elisha as my manager.


Golasa, in rightback they're set imo.. Ottman and Mashumar are an above average RBs for our league.

A top quality CB over ageing Benado probebly, and imo they should bring Amasha in from KS and save the forgien stop for a really top class midfielder(although that new young DM looks impressive with potential)
Yeah, I must agree with you about the 16 team league issue. To be honest with you I was a bit worried with it, but it is proving to be really good this system (the only criticism I have is to the Kizuz rule).

John Gregory had merits without a doubt and it is also worthy to mention Jackie Ben Zacken as the SC Ashdod owner had options to bring in other coaches, but he opted for a long term project with Gregory and didn´t worry too much initially for results. Certainly he will collect the fruits in a few years.

Hemed proves to be more and more a complete striker and I wouldn´t exagerate that he already deserved a place in the NT. He is a classic striker, with good technique, by far the best header currently in the league and has a decent speed and excellent sense of positioning. I was already finding it strange that no one gave him too much of attention, but with this Glasgow Rangers rumour he will certainly boost his morale.

Do you think he should move to Europe this summer or wait another season?

About Elisha Levy, I completely agree with you. A underated coach and the fans are really too harsh on him. You described well his merits, with all the difficulties that were imposed plus the pressure. But that is the difference from Yakov Shachar from other owners, he knows the game and the right moment to stay with someone and that is why Maccabi Haifa has been the most succesful Israeli team in the last 20 years.
Don´t forget it was the same thing with Roni Levi (he won four titles played in the Europa League with respectable results and when he fell upon Liverpool it was in the most admired manner).

Last edited by berko; April 12th, 2011 at 21:52.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old April 12th, 2011, 21:48 Thread Starter
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Haifa came back, definitely the sign of a champion,they definitely do deserve to win the league, as they have been very consistent the whole campaign and have slowly improved, if they want to qualify and make any noise in the Champions League next year, they will need a better central defender pairing as Benado and Pilavskiy arent so great, perhaps a foreign right back?
Certainly it is a sign of a champion. It was a tough game and they showed a lot of mental toughness to comeback as Kiriat Shmona really gave a good fight. Actually day after day I am more and more impressed with the work Ben Shimon is elaborating at Kiriat Shmona. It is incredible how they have been consistent and has made life difficult for the big teams this season.
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old April 13th, 2011, 03:02
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Yeah, I must agree with you about the 16 team league issue. To be honest with you I was a bit worried with it, but it is proving to be really good this system (the only criticism I have is to the Kizuz rule).

John Gregory had merits without a doubt and it is also worthy to mention Jackie Ben Zacken as the SC Ashdod owner had options to bring in other coaches, but he opted for a long term project with Gregory and didn´t worry too much initially for results. Certainly he will collect the fruits in a few years.

Hemed proves to be more and more a complete striker and I wouldn´t exagerate that he already deserved a place in the NT. He is a classic striker, with good technique, by far the best header currently in the league and has a decent speed and excellent sense of positioning. I was already finding it strange that no one gave him too much of attention, but with this Glasgow Rangers rumour he will certainly boost his morale.

Do you think he should move to Europe this summer or wait another season?

About Elisha Levy, I completely agree with you. A underated coach and the fans are really too harsh on him. You described well his merits, with all the difficulties that were imposed plus the pressure. But that is the difference from Yakov Shachar from other owners, he knows the game and the right moment to stay with someone and that is why Maccabi Haifa has been the most succesful Israeli team in the last 20 years.
Don´t forget it was the same thing with Roni Levi (he won four titles played in the Europa League with respectable results and when he fell upon Liverpool it was in the most admired manner).
Hemed should definitely not move, if Haifa strengthens in the summer, with a centerback, they could definitely make the champions league. He shouldnt move abroad unless its the right offer and the right team...
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